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07-03-2013, 07:34 PM | #1 |
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N54 OpenFlash Tablet!
I'm not sure if you guys have been keeping up to date with this new product in n54 tuning but it seems very interesting, especially if we'll be able to get some kind of support over in Australia, either remotely, or locally. It's been discussed over on e90post for a few months and was just 'released' today.
Introduction - http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=828601 Release - http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=860720 Thoughts? Last edited by froop; 07-04-2013 at 11:59 PM.. |
07-03-2013, 10:57 PM | #4 |
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i'm just disappointed that it's 100% closed source, and realistically a cheaper ripoff of cobb
had the potential to have a true open tuning platform, but someone realized there was money to make... with his name, you'd expect stealing from the poor would be the opposite goal. Last edited by flinchy; 07-03-2013 at 11:05 PM.. |
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07-04-2013, 01:13 AM | #5 | |
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07-04-2013, 01:19 AM | #6 | |
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Huge letdown. |
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07-04-2013, 01:33 AM | #7 | ||
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Heck, i saw one come up on /r/cars as 'should i buy my friends uncles 335i with 100kmi for $8k?' Or something equally as mental. Though i know what you mean |
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07-04-2013, 08:45 PM | #8 |
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Hi Guys,
I will be distributing these locally in Australia. Pricing to be finalised, but will be priced to be similar to USA but with free local delivery. There is confusion between definitions of what open source means in this market. I am not going to say who is right, but some are disappointed in what the product is and the open source claim. It is unfortunate this has happened. I personally recognise that some generous developers choose to develop software and donate their efforts for free, and kudos to them for doing that. However I don't think anyone has the right to expect that from anyone. If you think it should be free why don't you do it for free. If your skills are not in software and you are unable to do this, would you do your day job for free? I think the product is VERY well priced for the features it offers, and if not for the confusion of peoples expectations, I am sure that all would agree it represents both great value and opportunity for the N54 community to Flash tune their cars, share tunes, customise tunes at a much lower price point than has previously been available. Cheers, Adrian |
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07-04-2013, 08:53 PM | #9 |
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Yeah it's a bit disappointing it ended up costing as much as it did (although still significantly cheaper than competition) and doesn't really seem all to different from a Cobb. Cobb only takes 2 minutes to write though vs 12 minutes for a write with this OpenFlash thingy.
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07-04-2013, 09:02 PM | #10 | |
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Just out of curiosity, will you be offering the flexfuel and LPFP upgrade in Australia once this is released? |
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07-04-2013, 09:07 PM | #11 |
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07-04-2013, 09:11 PM | #12 |
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07-04-2013, 09:39 PM | #13 |
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07-04-2013, 10:02 PM | #14 |
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That's one of the things I am tossing up. But if that's all I am going to use it for I can save the $400 and put it towards something else. I don't have the time at the moment to play with the device, hell I still haven't harassed Vishnu for the new firmware so I can install the Procede I bought from you. It was supposed to be released today, so I guess I will send them an email next. Also I am still a little bitter that what started out as open source project ended up being a commercial product with unlocked maps.
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07-04-2013, 10:05 PM | #15 |
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It is similar to Cobb, but does offer a better screen and interface, and a much lower price. It has slower uploads than Cobb currently but that will improve. Also, the initial upload of base flash is once only thing that is done initially. I don't see it a bit deal to spend a bit more time the first time.
"Open source" does have different meaning in different markets. "Open Source" should not be used in the Automotive market unless it is dealing with source code. It has come to mean something different in the flash tuning industry to what it means in other software industries. In tuning it is more about the knowledge sharing of maps and tuning related information. In other industries it is about the knowledge sharing of the code itself. Clearly the naming is a bit misleading, and is the source of the confusion in this case. This tuning solution will enable the sharing of the tuning information. I do plan to support flexfuel for the Procede including the backend flash. I still have to work out how to do this. It may be that I develop a jig to allow bench programming. It may be that I have a pool flash unit that I send to customers with a deposit system. I will have to work that out. I have not considered the LPFP upgrade yet. I will have to look into that. This would be a low volume thing that would only be useful for higher power cars. |
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07-04-2013, 10:12 PM | #16 | |
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With E85 becoming more and more available, to me it is on of the best bang for your buck mods out there. You can run it without DP's, FMIC, Charge Pipes all of that, just need the Procede Kit and a Flash, and POW instant Torque and HP. |
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07-04-2013, 10:13 PM | #17 |
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I am interested in the bitterness regarding this not being "open source" to some people. I am trying to understand what people expect.
Do people simply see this as something they thought they were going to get but are not now and are disappointed? Or do people expect that other people should freely give their time and knowledge so that they can make their car faster for less money? This being the case, is it reasonable to expect this given you expect payment for the job you do? Do people thing that software has not intrinsic value compared to hardware. An electronic device is worth the sum of its parts, and any development time in working out how to put the parts together or programming time for the data that gets programmed into memory is of no value since you can email a file for nothing and you don't have to pay money for it at a parts store? Do you also think that music and movies should be free since it costs nothing to download it and the creators of such things do not deserve payment? I am really just curious... I want to understand what people think. I work as an engineer and design hardware and software, so I have clear reasons for my own attitudes. |
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07-04-2013, 10:19 PM | #18 | |
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"Open Source" in tuning is most widely known via ECUFlash in the EVO/Subaru community. I don't think that is open source either, but it is what has come to be know as open source in flash tuning. The cables are cheaper (and less capable) in that market, and the VINs are not locked, but other than that it similar. I can see how the VIN lock would be a distraction to many, but on the definition of what Open Source means, I don't really see any difference. |
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07-04-2013, 10:34 PM | #19 | |
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Of course he is entitled to charge whatever he wishes for a product that he has developed and I have no argument against that. Also, no one has the right to 'expect' that Rombinhood do all of this work for free however it 'appeared' implied and that's where the confusion, misunderstanding and disappointment lies. If it was introduced as a new 'product' rather than an 'open source project' from the beginning then there wouldn't be any issue and everyone would be jumping for joy that there was a new, promising and very competitively priced product introduced to the market. In saying that, the end result does seem promising and I'll wait until some people have tested it and they've added datalogging. I'm definitely interested in being able to datalog with it as currently I only own a 5.5kg laptop which sucks huge balls to try and use in the car. |
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07-04-2013, 10:38 PM | #20 | |
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Edit: And you did ask |
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07-04-2013, 10:41 PM | #21 | |
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It just seems that there are a bunch of people who feel some entitlement to be given things so they can make their car go faster even though they would never give of their own time/money for the community if they had something to offer. Seems that some people feel entitlement to take from society without a thought for other people. |
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07-04-2013, 10:49 PM | #22 | ||
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Whether he changed his mind midway or it was his plan all along we can only speculate, however he never took anything from anyone and the work he produced was his own and he's entitled to change his mind if he wishes.
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