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10-09-2013, 05:17 AM | #199 |
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They will install OE parts. They will not install OEM parts. They are anything but a terrible workshop. In fact, they're the only people I'll let work on my car other than me.
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10-09-2013, 08:03 AM | #200 | |
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I'm sure their work is good - but i judge a lot based on how they'll work with me as a customer And to me, that's poor customer service It's quite simple to say 'we don't warrant any non-genuine parts installed for failure not directly related to improper installation' Then again, they sound like they get plenty of boring general repair work for that not to matter to them in the least haha |
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10-09-2013, 08:09 AM | #201 | |||
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The m3 one is it's own BMW part And side by side, the m and non m ones are very differently shaped If you already had them, wtf did they zip tie?? Lol Also... The rear arms aren't also TRW are they? I haven't managed to find an OEM example of them, which doesn't help source high-value versions .. No idea why they're so much more expensive than the front otherwise. Quote:
Spend all the money on the tooling etc.. Best make as much as possible on it then. |
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10-09-2013, 08:26 AM | #203 | |
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Telling the average customer that it was the faulty oem parts they brought and not the install-- people wouldn't be happy. Look how gung-ho people are for oem even in this thread! Most people don't realize oe and oem aren't synonyms.
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10-09-2013, 09:05 AM | #204 |
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I find it interesting how readily some of us accept every aftermarket manufacturer's offerings as "upgrades" or "performance" modifications and yet we show great skepticism with respect to OEM parts that are nominally "identical" to OE but for a logo being ground off. The question of why those particular parts are "seconds" certainly is interesting. They could just be excess parts made to ensure an order to the OE was fully filled. They could have some cosmetic blemish. With respect to a TRW suspension link, the bushings are unlikely to be at issue, as they would have been rejected prior to assembly if defective. Selling parts with structural flaws would incur a significant potential liability so is unlikely. A blanket rejection of OEM parts is not sensible. Neither is a blanket acceptance. An informed (or at least educated) risk benefit analysis is appropriate. There is something reassuring about having that M logo on the part, but depending on your budget and mindset, that reassurance may not really be worth the cost.
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10-09-2013, 09:47 AM | #205 | |
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JTC1429 JTC1430 JTC1431 Check those they are TRW part #s |
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10-09-2013, 11:15 AM | #206 | |
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10-09-2013, 05:02 PM | #207 | |
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One reason why they are more, than the fronts is(or shall I say "could be") in the shear numbers of parts needed(worldwide). When people wreck there cars the control arms are designed to snap off(at least the alloy ones are). More people crash or wreck the front of the cars than the rear end. Also the front right takes its toll/beating with everyday pot holes and curbing. So more front end parts will be needed for the various OE and OEM part sources vs the rears. More parts sales usually means a lower price per unit.
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10-09-2013, 09:32 PM | #208 | |||
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over here it's usually the opposite.. they won't touch someone elses work just in case the work is bad, and they can't prove they didn't cause the problem OTOH, they're happy to work with non-geniune parts as it's VERY easy to say 'it's not genuine, it's bad, it's not our fault' very backwards shop! haha that particular job (CSL roof) .. well that's not a good example though, as it's an OEBMW item.. would they be happy to do it were it not a BMW item? Quote:
the TRW control arms you purchase are EXACTLY THE SAME ITEMS you get from BMW in other BMW's, MEYLE HD have been EXACTLY THE SAME (especially for sways) oil filters - EXACTLY THE SAME as are the water pumps (and they suck just as much :P), spark plugs, coils the OEM items have been discovered to be 100% identical in every single way to the OEBMW items in many MANY cases. these aren't a third party aftermarket 'OEM (in other cases)' manufacturing cheaper versions.. they are the original version. Quote:
that makes sense.. high speed frontal impact = breaking front arms high speed rear impact = extreme rarity? why does the front right take more of a beating on average than front left? my car sees roughly even potholes left to right haha |
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10-10-2013, 06:12 AM | #209 | |
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Honestly, I don't think we're going to agree on this. 7 years ago, I was right there with you and though they were the same part for a lower price. Nothing anybody posted would have convinced me otherwise. But, 7 years later and having dealt with OEM parts issues... I'd rather pay the extra and have everything go properly. At this point I've had enough OEM part issues that nothing is going to convince me otherwise, and I'll stick with OE.
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10-10-2013, 08:09 AM | #210 | ||||
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10-10-2013, 11:52 AM | #211 | |
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I'd much rather see your actual evidence that these parts are somehow functionally defective.
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If you think there is a real problem, I ask that you be specific about it. You're making a lot of generalizations with no evidence. The real question comes when we see that there is such an abundant supply. If they were seconds or failed parts, they would be in extremely limited supply. 30% is an INSANE failure rate. I would be amazed if TRW, in order to get a deal with BMW, would not have to have a manufacturing quality process certification (such as ISO 9001), and that kind of failure rate would never fly. Even 1% would be atrocious. When you are certified like that, you can get in trouble for slipping out failed parts to gray markets, as you are beholden for everything that goes out the door. That's just not how the manufacturing industry works these days. Maybe back in the 80's... Unless these were stolen out of a dumpster, which they would never do due to the cost of the aluminum they already processed, I don't see them being structurally or functionally defective. Assuming they are seems silly. You are also able to make your own choices, but I think you are spreading FUD.
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10-10-2013, 12:03 PM | #212 |
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Did some quick googling. Here is a link to a same vendor agreement from TRW citing ISO 9000, 9001, etc.:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...,d.eWU&cad=rja Here is info on ISO and what it means for certified manufacturers: http://globalpurchasing.com/counterf...nic-components "Franchised distributors guarantee direct manufacturer traceability for all products, with pass-through warranties where needed, along with the best-in-class warehouse and process controls such as ISO 9001, ISO 14001 and ESD 20:20 certification. " So, TRW can't just dump bad parts off on the gray market. They could lose their ISO cert for that, and in turn lose all their OE business with companies like BMW if they lost their cert. Further searching, they are ISO 26262 certified, which covers safety of road going vehicles. They could get in deep poopy for dumping these control arms ANYWHERE if they were in fact somehow faulty. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_26262 Can we put this to rest now?
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10-10-2013, 04:27 PM | #213 | ||
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The OEM water pump is a mere $3 cheaper than the BMW one... http://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E82-135...ump/ES2598223/ vs http://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E82-135...ump/ES2622808/ there is absolutely zero difference in getting the VDO one. it is physically impossible to go 'nah OEM is worse than OEBMW' when they are THE SAME PART... anything that's thought about them bein worse is simply bad luck, you can get bad OEBMW parts just as often as bad 'genuine' ones.... the only reason you think you're getting a better part is you're paying more, because you're a sucker for a branding... as below, manufacturers have certain standards they MUST MAINTAIN for certifications... selling potentially defective parts could cost these companies tens or hundreds of millions of dollars, for a few million in profit at best. Assuming that business is as stupid as you seem to be implying is ridiculous. Quote:
sadly i don't think you'll convince them .. especially going by the above post. Even discounting that ISO9001 dictates minimum quality and document control standards... and that failure rates would be anywhere near enough to keep stores stocked... If they were factory seconds, i'm almost certain other standards would dictate they wouldn't be able to be sold as firsts? Last edited by flinchy; 10-10-2013 at 04:36 PM.. |
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10-10-2013, 05:14 PM | #214 | |
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Plus, direct experience to the contrary of what you're saying.
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10-10-2013, 08:12 PM | #215 | |
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M3 control arms, Sway bar, coilovers, wheels+non-RFT... aftermarket head-unit... planned M3 rear subframe+LSD+solid bushes... 135i brakes... and N54 build + swap? those are bad things to do? well shit, better let the whole forum know how bad their modifications are... And going by the impressive list of modifications on your M3, you must be disgusted with yourself! uhhh i'm pretty sure out of the two of us, i'm the one with direct experience with these control arms... therefore i'm the one with the better knowledge here? Not to mention the ability to reason, and apply logic to this situation... your posts entirely lack logic. ED: i should mention, that yes, i think that 'third party' OEM may sometimes be inferior to first party OEM (a la these control arms)... but when buying 'first party' OEM, you're 100% absolutely getting the same product. if you're buying an item from a manufacturer that may not be the one that supplies 'genuine' parts, then you're getting into POTENTIALLY hazy territory depending on the part.... take Meyle HD sway bars or something... you're probably pretty right with them as a third party.. but some random china part? ehhhhhhhh Last edited by flinchy; 10-10-2013 at 08:24 PM.. |
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10-11-2013, 12:29 AM | #216 | ||
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10-11-2013, 05:29 AM | #217 |
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Meh, I the powerbox is awful, but I think the 135 brakes are the worst downgrade he did. Then again, I do despise aftermarket head units in BMWs... Maybe that's the worst example. Then again, solid bushings in a street driven car are terrible.
So many choices, hard to pick a worst example. Either way, clear to me that he and I are NOT on the same page when it comes to what constitutes quality parts. Last edited by Obioban; 10-11-2013 at 05:36 AM.. |
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10-11-2013, 08:07 AM | #218 | |
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10-11-2013, 10:16 PM | #219 | ||
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when have i cheaped out? it was like $400 anyway... there's no other 'tuning' options here in Australia haha... besides, i haven't cheaped out on anything else? i'm spending something like $10k rebuilding the engine ffs. (no budget, but it's what i'm working it out to about) Unless you count this thread as 'cheaping out'?... Maybe i'm just not a sucker, and like getting value for money? Quote:
Uh... downgrade? .. single piston 330m+single piston 300mm.. to 6 piston 338mm+2 piston 325mm... are a downgrade?? (yes i get that as brembos go, they kinda suck, with weak pistons...) but firstly, to get it street legal, i have to put in brakes from the car the engine is coming from.. secondly, yes i realized afterwards that 1M brakes would also be ok, but much harder to find for reasonable money... but i'll be likely going to them, when i do eventually find a set (when the rears come 9/10 times with the M3 rear subframe) Getting it engineered as road legal with 'better' aftermarket brakes (would love a stoptech set), would be near impossible with the swap on top of it... However, once the swap is done and plated as 'legal', it's somehow much easier to go a BBK then. And, not a cheap swap for either... Aftermarket Headunits... again, showing you don't really know everything at all.. the factory head unit and stereo is TERRIBLE, and any 'drop in' upgrade is neutered right from the start... so an alpine head unit (9887 being one of the better SQ ones, and i had it from my previous two cars) with a H701 or H800 + 3 way active seemed like fun to me .. Plus, with the nice fascia, and the fact it still has orange lights.. it actually looks pretty damn good, doesn't 'jump' out at you... the added functionality and quality is just a huge bonus on top of that.... so yes, such a bad idea upgrading to a competition grade stereo >_>, and even cheaping out on JL/ amps... Sure, i could have kept the stock head unit and wired the new on in sorta parallel like some people do.. but it's a huge waste of effort, and a pain in the ass finding somewhere to hide it, as well as the difficulty added wiring it in. and shit, 3 things in one post? Solid subframe bushings (not engine or transmission) add next to no NVH, but are a vast improvement over rubber or poly alternatives for feel and performance.... you realize the new M3/M4 is going solid in the subframe.. right? and the F10 M5 is solid? Plus, there's another guy in Australia getting the M3 rear put in... with the solid bushings from turner, and a few more of us wanting to either get a set custom made or buy a few... instead of the M3 ones for the same price. Oh, and if you also don't like the fact i have BC coilovers... people with M3's put them on their cars, i *did* get a VERY good deal on them, they're SHITLOADS better than OEM 'sport' suspension with 70k miles, and i'll be upgrading to something much fancier after the engine is in. yeah... we're pretty clearly not on the same page, you're quite a few pages behind? Last edited by flinchy; 10-11-2013 at 10:40 PM.. |
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10-11-2013, 10:36 PM | #220 |
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I have everything from headers to double adjustable coilovers. If you are looking for unmodified you are barking up the wrong tree. It's a pretty safe bet I have the most modified 128i in the world period.
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