Opinions on changing your own oil and plugs

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

zx10guy



PPK1 is only SW.
PPK2 is SW plus Hardware.


When the PPK kit came out it was SW and hardware. The hardware was an upgraded radiator fan, extra small radiator that mounts in the driver's side front fender, all the extra coolant hoses needed that radiator and new spark plugs, new HD relays to power that radiator fan and a bracket to relocate the car's horns and a sticker for the engine stating the car has a PPK.

BMW also says to change your spark lugs more often in the PPK instructions.

When the 1M came out(basically a further "tune" on the N54 engine), BMW went to a 30K mile spark plug interval rather than 45K for the 135i's.
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Now if it was my car, I would be changing the spark plugs every 25K to 30K miles. Plugs are not that expensive and really make a big difference on how the engine drives and responds to throttle input(s).

The spark plugs are a different part number for N55 vs N54 engines. Its quite common to get the wrong plugs from a dealer or parts source. That was why I mentioned in another thread to check your plug part numbers. IF you install the wrong plugs the engine will run like crap.

N54 plugs...

p/n 12120037244 BOSCH ZGR6STE2

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=12_1417

N55 plugs...

p/n 12120037582 BOSCH ZR5TPP33S

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=12_1417




Dack

Dack,

Understood. I get the differences between the software only and the software with the cooling upgrades as I went with the stage 2 kit with the cooling upgrades. Also, the pictures of the parts you've linked to are the ones I took of the parts.

I got a response back from my SA that he has his parts guy researching this right now. When I get a response back, I'll let everyone know.

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by Esteban

I'm due for spark plugs in a month and have an N55 with PPK1. Any chance you can post pics or a link to the documentation that states N54 spark plugs are required? Or is it just for PPK2? Should be the same for both PPK versions, correct?

Do NOT use the N54 plugs in your car!!!!!!

This is from first hand experience, I even made a thread about this, your car will run like crap. I had horrible misfires when I put the N54 plugs in that came with the PPK2 kit.

Put the stock N55 plugs in.

Edit:

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...ighlight=plugs

[zx10guy]

Oh heck. I think the dealer gave me the old parts back off of my car when I had the PPK done. I'll check to see if the N54 plugs were given back uninstalled or if they used them and I got back the N55 plugs.

[zx10guy]

Ok. Just checked. I did get back the single prong plugs. I checked the work order for the PPK2 install and I don't see a listing for new N55 plugs. So I can assume with great confidence, the N54 plugs which were sent with the kit were installed in my car. As far as misfires go and the like, I didn't experience any of that. I did notice some rattling sounds during cold idle. I'll have to fire up the car now to see if I hear the same noises.

[MightyMouseTech]

Well, the 135is is just an N55 with the PPK2, and that car calls for the single prong plug.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Esteban

I was looking at the PPK1 p/n (11122219489) and checked some places that sell it and there's no mention of new spark plugs with the kit. Turner Motorsport says "Kit includes a red envelope containing a release code certificate that includes the key numbers required to install the Power Kit software at your local BMW dealership, along w/ BMW Peformance Power Kit label." Unless they expect the dealer or wherever you have the software flashed to furnish the spark plugs.

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-1...th-n55-engine/

Dackelone thinks that installing the N54 plugs in a N55 is incorrect.

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showp...71&postcount=3

I checked my invoice of my PPK1 installation and there's no mention of new spark plugs being installed, so I think they left the N55 plugs in. My car has been running great since I got PPK1 in 2011 so I'm sticking with the N55 (12120037582) plugs.

Originally Posted by Esteban

Yeah, what about the people who get PPK1 flashed by the coders? There's no spark plugs being installed there. It's all done remotely. Don't know about PPK2, but pretty positive N54 plugs aren't installed for PPK1 on an N55 135i.

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

Do NOT use the N54 plugs in your car!!!!!!

This is from first hand experience, I even made a thread about this, your car will run like crap. I had horrible misfires when I put the N54 plugs in that came with the PPK2 kit.

Put the stock N55 plugs in.

Edit:

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...ighlight=plugs

As you can see from my previous posts and the statements in bold, I'm staying with N55 spark plugs

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by Esteban

As you can see from my previous posts and the statements in bold, I know that N54 plugs are not used on an N55 135i.

You said "pretty positive", just want to make sure you are 100% positive.

Stay positive my friend.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

You said "pretty positive", just want to make sure you are 100% positive.

Stay positive my friend.

Thanks bro for looking out for me. Yes, I know to use the N55 plugs. "pretty positive" was my way of saying definitely YES!

[zx10guy]

To follow up on this. My SA got back to me. He said he consulted his shop foreman and the foreman said the 582 plug (which we all know as the one called for the N55 normally) is the updated part number to the 244 plug.

I guess my next step for confirmation is to talk to Dinan being I have the S2 tune and see if they have an opinion.

So I've run both plugs. The 244 plug with the PPK. And for a very short period the 244 with the S2 then ultimately the 582 plug now. My anecdotal experience so far shows no difference in operation as I haven't had any misfires or idle issues on either plug.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

To follow up on this. My SA got back to me. He said he consulted his shop foreman and the foreman said the 582 plug (which we all know as the one called for the N55 normally) is the updated part number to the 244 plug.

I guess my next step for confirmation is to talk to Dinan being I have the S2 tune and see if they have an opinion.

So I've run both plugs. The 244 plug with the PPK. And for a very short period the 244 with the S2 then ultimately the 582 plug now. My anecdotal experience so far shows no difference in operation as I haven't had any misfires or idle issues on either plug.

Do you think it's possible that when you got the PPK2 kit installed that the dealer did not install the 244 (N54) plugs that came with the kit, since you said you had no problems (stumbling, misfires, rough idling, etc.)? Maybe they knew that the plugs that came with the PPK2 kit were the wrong ones.

As you can see below in MightyMouseTech's thread, he had the above mentioned problems with the 244 (N54) plugs, and the problems cleared up when the correct plugs 582 (N55) plugs were installed.

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...ighlight=plugs

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by Esteban

Do you think it's possible that when you got the PPK2 kit installed that the dealer did not install the 244 (N54) plugs that came with the kit, since you said you had no problems (stumbling, misfires, rough idling, etc.)? Maybe they knew that the plugs that came with the PPK2 kit were the wrong ones.

As you can see below in MightyMouseTech's thread, he had the above mentioned problems with the 244 (N54) plugs, and the problems cleared up when the correct plugs 582 (N55) plugs were installed.

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...ighlight=plugs

Don't think that's the case. My SA at the time told me they checked and those were the plugs (244) to be used with the PPK2. I also got back the plugs which were in my care from the factory and they're the single ground electrode plug (582). I went out to the box of left over parts from the stage 2 install and verified them visually. And the final thing that makes me feel for certain the 244 plugs were used in my car is the work order/invoice. The dealership in Cali where I bought the PPK2 from didn't include a rubber mount needed for the kit. So I was invoiced for that part by my dealer. Other than the mount and coolant, they didn't invoice for a new set of plugs.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

Don't think that's the case. My SA at the time told me they checked and those were the plugs (244) to be used with the PPK2. I also got back the plugs which were in my care from the factory and they're the single ground electrode plug (582). I went out to the box of left over parts from the stage 2 install and verified them visually. And the final thing that makes me feel for certain the 244 plugs were used in my car is the work order/invoice. The dealership in Cali where I bought the PPK2 from didn't include a rubber mount needed for the kit. So I was invoiced for that part by my dealer. Other than the mount and coolant, they didn't invoice for a new set of plugs.

I wonder why the 244 (N54) plugs work fine on one 2013 N55 135i but cause problems on another 2013 N55 135i, both with PPK2. Anyone have any ideas?

[Mr Rooty Von Tooty]

The poop from BMW is the plugs are good for 60K. I do read the owners manuals for my cars! As I said before, if the car starts and runs OK and the mileage is doing OK too, there isn't any need to change the plugs.

Cars need to be serviced, but they don't need to be over serviced. I have had very few problems over the year, and I drive cars that older than most of you on this forum!

BTW, those plugs are nearly $25 each! $150 for 6 plugs, ouch! That'll buy me a few T-bones!

[zx10guy]

The poop from BMW for those of us who have the PPK is 45,000 miles is when we're supposed to have our plugs changed. So much so that my last service was covered by the factory maintenance plan...no questions asked.

If you don't believe me, here are pictures of the stickers that came with the PPK:

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by Esteban

I wonder why the 244 (N54) plugs work fine on one 2013 N55 135i but cause problems on another 2013 N55 135i, both with PPK2. Anyone have any ideas?

I'd like to know myself as this is very confusing and a little unsettling. So far, I've received two different answers from my dealer about what plug is appropriate.

I may try to see if my buddy who is a BMW tech can find out some info on this. Or maybe the two BMW techs on this forum that I know of would care to comment.

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by Mr Rooty Von Tooty

The poop from BMW is the plugs are good for 60K. I do read the owners manuals for my cars! As I said before, if the car starts and runs OK and the mileage is doing OK too, there isn't any need to change the plugs.

Cars need to be serviced, but they don't need to be over serviced. I have had very few problems over the year, and I drive cars that older than most of you on this forum!

BTW, those plugs are nearly $25 each! $150 for 6 plugs, ouch! That'll buy me a few T-bones!

BMW has always said plugs for a 135i should be changed every 45K miles. And for the 1M it is every 30K miles. Everyone on the forums knows plugs start to give you problems with a tune(after ~30K). That is why BMW says to change the 1M plugs more often... bc a 1M is basically a N54 with a tune.

You can find plugs for less than $25 each. I think I paid 12 euros each for mine the last time. Be glad you don't own a 911 Turbo... those plugs are $60 each!

Originally Posted by zx10guy

Ok. Just checked. I did get back the single prong plugs. I checked the work order for the PPK2 install and I don't see a listing for new N55 plugs. So I can assume with great confidence, the N54 plugs which were sent with the kit were installed in my car. As far as misfires go and the like, I didn't experience any of that. I did notice some rattling sounds during cold idle. I'll have to fire up the car now to see if I hear the same noises.

HOW did you check? By the repair invoice(part number) ? I wouldn't go by that. Th eonly real way to know 100% is by pulling a spark plug.

But if your car is running fine... I would not sweat it.

cozmicf You have been pretty quiet... have we talked you out of replacing your plugs? I would say go ahead and change them with your friends help.

Dack

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

HOW did you check? By the repair invoice(part number) ? I wouldn't go by that. Th eonly real way to know 100% is by pulling a spark plug.

But if your car is running fine... I would not sweat it.

Dack

Let me summarize why I say I'm pretty close to being 100% sure I had the 244 plugs in my car for 40,000+ miles.

1) PPK2 kit came with 6 244 plugs.
2) Checked with my SA at the time and he said according to his resources, those are the plugs I need to run in my car with the PPK2.
3) I did not receive back any of the 244 plugs after install of the PPK2. Instead I received back the factory installed 582 plugs with the single ground electrode verified recently as I still have a box with all the removed parts from the PPK2 install. In fact, the old plugs were given back to me in the same plastic bag that held all the 244 plugs I got with the PPK2 kit.
4) The invoice for the work did not list any additional plugs charged back to me. The PPK2 kit I received did not have a rubber mount needed for the install. I was charged for this. Even though I have a good relationship with my dealer, they wouldn't just give me 6 plugs for free (nor any other dealership for that matter). The invoice was pretty specific on things I got charged for right down to the extra coolant needed. If anything were to be left off the invoice, I would think coolant would be as I'm pretty sure they buy that stuff bulk in drums.

I wish I had known this would be a controversy as I would have asked my SA to at least show me the plugs they just replaced.

But as you said, the car is running fine right now. I would just like to know why there are varying stories on what plug to run and different experiences on the effect of using different plugs in the N55. So far it seems that I got lucky with not having the issues you all had with the 244 plug in the N55...again assuming I'm correct that I did run the 244 plug for 40,000+ miles.

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

2) Checked with my SA at the time and he said according to his resources, those are the plugs I need to run in my car with the PPK2.

As a dealer tech, I can tell you, the people who often know the least about the cars is the SA. If they knew as much as the techs, they would be techs making triple the money.

Honestly, I can't even listen to our advisers giving customers advice, so much misinformation.

IMHO

The deciding factor for me was the 135is is basically just a 135i with the PPK2 and PE. BMW specifies the single electrode plugs for that car. But if your car runs fine with the N54 plugs, then use them I guess. Just did not work for me. But I am quite sensitive to feeling misfires, that is part of my job.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

As a dealer tech, I can tell you, the people who often know the least about the cars is the SA. If they knew as much as the techs, they would be techs making triple the money.

Honestly, I can't even listen to our advisers giving customers advice, so much misinformation.

IMHO

The deciding factor for me was the 135is is basically just a 135i with the PPK2 and PE. BMW specifies the single electrode plugs for that car. But if your car runs fine with the N54 plugs, then use them I guess. Just did not work for me. But I am quite sensitive to feeling misfires, that is part of my job.

I generally agree with you about SAs. Although I haven't worked in the industry, I've been around it from the inside looking out. So I understand the business to some degree. I hung around my friend who had opened up his own repair shop. So I got to see a lot of the things behind the scenes. And that's why I'm pretty sympathetic towards what mechanics have to deal with.

With that said, the SA at the time was also a fellow 1'er nut. He also owned a 135i himself. He didn't speak off the cuff that yes, those plugs are what should be installed. He checked with various people at the dealership about whether the plugs are appropriate or not. It seems there's a documentation problem with BMW on what is going on here. My next step is to contact my friend who is a BMW tech and actually works at the same dealership I go to and see if he can find out anything definitive.

At this point, I don't really care what plugs are in my engine. Just want to know that the ones I have in there ARE the right ones. I also agree with you about the 135is. I also did a parts look up to see the 582 plugs being called out for it.

[Mr Rooty Von Tooty]

I swear to God I don't know where you people get your information about spark plugs.

With my N55, came a book entitled Service and Warranty Information. On page 11 in the lower left corner it gives the replacement intervals for plugs for the various models. I'm not going to repeat the whole business, but it says for the 135i every 60K miles or every 4th oil service.

Note something else that's implied by every 4th oil service. Although it isn't stated explicitly, under the protocol of the CBS, conditioned based service, a vehicle that is operated in normal way, not under any extreme conditions, could rack up 15K miles or one year of time before the computer would call for oil service.

I don't know this for sure, but I'd bet the service interval is one year or 15K miles whichever comes first. I do know for sure BMW will do oil service every year regardless of miles. I don't put enough miles on to know the maximum miles within a year to trigger the service.

As for plug prices, they are all over the place. An average figure seems to be a $100.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by Mr Rooty Von Tooty

I swear to God I don't know where you people get your information about spark plugs.

With my N55, came a book entitled Service and Warranty Information. On page 11 in the lower left corner it gives the replacement intervals for plugs for the various models. I'm not going to repeat the whole business, but it says for the 135i every 60K miles or every 4th oil service.

Note something else that's implied by every 4th oil service. Although it isn't stated explicitly, under the protocol of the CBS, conditioned based service, a vehicle that is operated in normal way, not under any extreme conditions, could rack up 15K miles or one year of time before the computer would call for oil service.

I don't know this for sure, but I'd bet the service interval is one year or 15K miles whichever comes first. I do know for sure BMW will do oil service every year regardless of miles. I don't put enough miles on to know the maximum miles within a year to trigger the service.

As for plug prices, they are all over the place. An average figure seems to be a $100.

From BMW. I guess you have a problem comprehending the pictures I posted which state to change the plugs every 45,000 miles. That's BMW's sticker not something I had some print shop make up. My dealership wouldn't have replaced them recently at about 47-48k miles if BMW wasn't going to pay for them. I paid zero out of pocket to get this service done.

[Mr Rooty Von Tooty]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

From BMW. I guess you have a problem comprehending the pictures I posted which state to change the plugs every 45,000 miles. That's BMW's sticker not something I had some print shop make up. My dealership wouldn't have replaced them recently at about 47-48k miles if BMW wasn't going to pay for them. I paid zero out of pocket to get this service done.

From my past experiences with your posts, I try to ignore anything you might say!