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02-26-2019, 05:28 AM | #1 |
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If you have aftemarket AA Headers..Please stop in
I am just trying to gather some information as I am frequently seeing these posts. So if you have AA Catless headers installed on your car, would you please answer as best as you can. This is about the "Idle Stumble" issue.
Thanks. Do you have an idle issue after installation? If so: 1. N51 or N52 Engine? 2. Exhaust setup from headers back...eg (Secondary Cats, no Secondary Cats, etc) ? 3. Who is your tune from? 4. How long have you had them installed? 5. Do you still have an idle issue, or did you finally get it resolved? What did you end up doing if you did get it resolved. I know all of this is vague, but just trying to gather some information on why some people could be seeing this issue, and why some are not. You know how the internet works, most of the people with the problems will let you know, but others with no issues typically don't post about it unless they are posting about their gains! Thanks guys!
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02-26-2019, 07:45 AM | #2 |
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1. N51
2. Stock secondary cats, BMW PE 3. AA (rev 3) 4. Two years (Feb 2017) 5. I have not had the idle issue for some time. Pulled the battery cable and drove a while to make sure the adaptations reset. This may have something to do with the rev. 3 tune, the older tune still had the idle fluctuations. Word of caution, with the PE, the exhaust is loud. Kind of raspy and there is a fair amount of drone around 2500rpm. My honest opinion: I'd spend the money elsewhere. I don't regret having it on the car, but if I were to do it over again, I'd have put the money into suspension or new wheels/tires. The PE alone makes the car sound awesome in my opinion, and the bump in power, while noticeable, isn't necessarily worth the hassle and money. Just my $0.02. |
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02-26-2019, 10:49 AM | #3 | ||
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Nope, only before I got my tune.
N52 Quote:
BimmerLabs, custom made According to my maintenance log, almost a year (since April 2018) Quote:
Custom tune Data point because I don't have issues. Not bragging, but helps narrow down the subset of people with issues. Seems this is an N51 problem.
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02-26-2019, 11:28 AM | #4 |
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Thanks guys. It will still be awhile before I can get time to do mine, but I figured with the recent posts I had been seeing that maybe a central thread could start helping eliminate some variables for everyone.
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02-27-2019, 07:29 AM | #5 |
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1.N51
2.AA Muffler,Stock Secondary Cats 3.AA 4.Two Years 5. Had an erratic idle issue with the initial tune, after emailing Nic from AA he sent me a revised tune and after about ~200 miles on the new tune the idle issue was GONE. Sometimes it just takes time for the car to learn and adjust as I experienced on both e46 and e82 platforms. I do plan to switch over to a BPC tune after I install some MILVs... |
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03-04-2019, 01:41 PM | #6 |
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1. N51
2. AA Headers, PE Exhaust 3. AA tune, most updated version to my knowledge 4. 16 months 5. Idle hunting still persists, albeit slight. I can feel it drop to 500 and the slight vibration coming through the cabin. i also have had consistent, yet random stalling when cruising to a stop, unsure if related. It may not be a big deal to some, but it drives me insane. Shitty stock audio, loud road noise, etc. is okay, but the idle hunt is annoying. I have been unable to solve. My car has 50k and I have replaced coils, plugs, VCG and will be taking the headers off to pass inspection shortly, will report back if this solves it. Other than the eccentric cam sensor, I am not sure what else there is to replace. |
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03-05-2019, 06:14 AM | #7 |
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As desertman123 said.....it seems to look like more and more it's an N51 issue which of course we don't have enough data points in here yet to 100% make that assumption.
But it would make sense since it is controlled to "tighter" emissions that it would be more sensitive to a change such as cat-less headers. I haven't really looked at the emission differences between the N51 and N52, only know so far that the N51 came stock with a 3SI and lower compression from the factory.
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03-05-2019, 12:20 PM | #8 |
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1. N51 or N52 Engine?
n52 w/ 3 stage IM 2. Exhaust setup from headers back...eg (Secondary Cats, no Secondary Cats, etc) ? AA headers/ stock mid/AA axle back 3. Who is your tune from? AA 4. How long have you had them installed? 1.5 years 5. Do you still have an idle issue, or did you finally get it resolved? No What did you end up doing if you did get it resolved. I enjoy reving it out, no issues here
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03-05-2019, 02:02 PM | #9 | |
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03-05-2019, 03:22 PM | #10 |
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I'll fill out one of those templates after work for my N51 but wanted to share some of my "progress" and research.
While I am not well versed on the functionality, a few others have mentioned that msv80.1 (what our N51 128s are running) is diff from msv80 to satisfy SULEV emissions reqs. The biggest diff in additional equipment is the secondary air pump. I have removed mine, a relay, put a block off in place, and had BPC code out the error. My idle issue still persists. After some more research on MSV80.1 specifically I saw a thread where someone (I think hass?) was of the opinion running a N52 MSV80 coded to work with the N51 engine would be the only way to truly eliminate the emissions systems functions from 80.1. Do I know this is the root cause of my idle issue? No, but like many others I've changed out parts and sensors that could be the culprit, relearned end stops for vanos, and reset adaptations numerous times. Cheers and thanks for your effort! |
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03-05-2019, 03:57 PM | #11 | |
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It does seem to keep coming back to the emission differences between the two platforms. |
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03-05-2019, 07:32 PM | #12 |
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Rmtt, apologies if it came across that I was not supportive of your goals with this thread. I like your approach, and hope it helps point us N51ers in the right direction.
1. N51 or N52 Engine? N51 - w/S.A.P. Delete 2. Exhaust setup from headers back...eg (Secondary Cats, no Secondary Cats, etc) ? SS Headers, SS straight pipes, SS muffler 3. Who is your tune from? BPC 4. How long have you had them installed? About 1 year 5. Do you still have an idle issue, or did you finally get it resolved? Yes, i experience 2 states of rough idling. 1) Decent, little to no fluctuation at most about 200 rpm (from 500-700). 2) Mild, strong fluctuations with about a 500-700 rpm fluctuation (from 300-~1000+). The second is reminiscent of the car trying to kill. |
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03-05-2019, 08:07 PM | #13 |
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Thanks for pulling this thread together. There does seem to be a theme. BPC seems confident when I've spoken to them on multiple occasions that this is a hardware issue of some kind, and that their N51 tune should and will run and idle normally if there are no hardware problems. They did not offer a tune solution when I've spoken to them, but were helpful in trying to narrow down possible hardware issues.
1. N51 or N52 Engine? N51 with SAP intact 2. Exhaust setup from headers back...eg (Secondary Cats, no Secondary Cats, etc) ? AA headers, otherwise stock exhaust and intake 3. Who is your tune from? BPC 4. How long have you had them installed? 14 months 5. Do you still have an idle issue, or did you finally get it resolved? Yes, I still have the idle issue after trying many possible fixes (well documented in other threads, I won't elaborate here). Sometimes it's absolutely fine, other times it's nearly undriveable. Sometimes at the track I'll get a big hit of power when I give it the slightest hint of throttle coming out of a corner. Other times it's 100% linear and smooth. Sometimes it stalls when I shift to neutral rolling to a stop. |
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03-06-2019, 05:48 AM | #14 | |
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No apology needed. I didn't take it that way at all. In fact I started this thread probably because I was scared of what would happen when I installed my headers. But after reading various posts and seeing all the things that people have tried, I figured a thread like this would be good to consolidate everyone's experiences in one place where we could all benefit from it. The only thing I wish I did different was when I asked about tune, was ask to specify if it was "mail-order" or at an actual shop on a dyno. I know that BPC is close to many people, and I know that AA has their shops all over with their licensed guys. So unless the mail-order tunes are being loaded, data-logged, and then returned for adjustment...it's hard to quantify. I know with tuning on my Corvettes over the years using HP Tuners, it would always take at least 3 runs on the dyno with some adjustments made to dial it in.
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03-06-2019, 01:06 PM | #15 |
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getting headers on soon and will be tuned by AA dealer in LA, will report back. However, my car currently dips to 500 rpm occasionally and i dont even have headers on??
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04-09-2019, 03:58 AM | #16 |
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1. N51 or N52 Engine? N52, 2011 328i
2. Exhaust setup from headers back...eg (Secondary Cats, no Secondary Cats, etc) ? Ceramic coated SuperSprint headers 3. Who is your tune from? BPC 4. How long have you had them installed? 1.5 years 5. Do you still have an idle issue, or did you finally get it resolved? Still have rough idle, also o2 sensor codes 002C39, 002C3A Anyone checked their fault codes?
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01-22-2020, 10:21 AM | #17 |
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Just installed the AA headers and am about ready to load the AA tune. Fingers crossed that I won't have worse idling issues than prior. Sometimes the car would die at a stoplight when the ac was on
Which tune revision should I be using for n52? |
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01-22-2020, 11:33 AM | #18 | |
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I did two things which I believe helped seriously calm down the idle issue on this car. It is still present but it doesn't fluctuate as often or as much as it did. 1) The car stalled at a stop light one day and threw a shadow code for the small DISA. When I swapped it out the DISA flap was stuck in a 30 deg position and did not move at all. When actuated through INPA, the motor would spin but the flap was stuck. 2) I installed a set of Eldor coils (p/n 12138657273) they aren't listed as compatible with the N51/N52 yet but they install and work great in my car. Prior to this, I checked the coils that were in the car and they were the unmarked Delphi coils that others have reported to cause weird electrical issues. My next step, will most likely be to pull the large DISA and see if it is operating correctly. I probably should have done that by now but the car has been behaving so I kind of forgot about the idle bounce. I will say that the only time the car idle bounces now, is when I clutch-in roll to a stop. Even then it's not every time. It probably happens the most when going at slow speed in a parking lot and rolling into a spot.
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01-22-2020, 12:22 PM | #19 | |
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When I did my headers, I went with a tune from Bob at StageFP. I never had the first idle issue so I was fortunate. Since then I have also added MILVS and had Bob tune for that...so far the car is a beast for what it is in perspective to what it used to be.
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01-22-2020, 08:31 PM | #20 | |
Just one more taste...
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Have you considered a secondary cat delete for a smidge more volume/tone but not TOO much? |
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01-23-2020, 05:11 AM | #21 |
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From my personal experience in terms of loudness and drone.
1. Stock system 2. AA Headers with stock secondaries and stock exhaust - Slightly louder and hard to tell it has headers from just sound. Tame 3. AA Headers with stock secondaries and MagnaFlow Catback - What I have and I think it's perfect. MagnaFlow also includes its own resonator. Sounds kind of like my old E46 M3. 4. Stock exhaust with Muffler Delete - I had this for awhile, and it's actually louder than the option I have now listed above.
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01-26-2020, 12:08 AM | #22 | |
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If you like hearing some bangs/pops on overrun, and screaming from 5-7k this is the setup. Straight up racecar! Last edited by markslc1; 01-26-2020 at 11:53 PM.. |
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