BMW 1 Series Coupe Forum / 1 Series Convertible Forum (1M / tii / 135i / 128i / Coupe / Cabrio / Hatchback) (BMW E82 E88 128i 130i 135i)
 





 

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      09-23-2021, 06:39 AM   #1
Phloozy
Second Lieutenant
219
Rep
210
Posts

Drives: BMW 128
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Pennsylvania

iTrader: (0)

How is your tire wear?

I have been tracking my 128 for 2 years now and I am consistently having issues cording/chunking tires. I keep trying different things/tires thinking that will solve it but not matter what by around 18 heat cycles my tires are shot. I have corded 3 sets of Yokohama A052s in ~13 HC, a set of Maxxis RC1 in ~19 HC and now a set of Hoosiers R7s in 18 HC.

I have 4 degrees of front camber and ~2.5 degrees in the rear. Is this just a 1 series issue or something wrong with me/car? Are people seeing similar issues with the chassis or do i need to explore other things? It is getting frustrating and expensive :P
Attached Images
   
Appreciate 0
      09-23-2021, 06:51 AM   #2
hoki06
Lieutenant
hoki06's Avatar
229
Rep
457
Posts

Drives: 2010 BMW 128i
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: VA

iTrader: (2)

Lots of factors at play here. To verify your camber settings, get a pyrometer and a friend in the hot pits to help you take hot tire temps across the tread. I'd guess you need another 0.5-1 degree in the rear. That Hoosier certainly looks like lack of camber.

Just some other things to consider:
-alignment
-tire rubbing in the fenders somewhere
-hot/cold pressures
-driving style (do you toss it in corners hard or are you smooth with inputs?)
Appreciate 0
      09-23-2021, 06:55 AM   #3
Phloozy
Second Lieutenant
219
Rep
210
Posts

Drives: BMW 128
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Pennsylvania

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoki06 View Post
Lots of factors at play here. To verify your camber settings, get a pyrometer and a friend in the hot pits to help you take hot tire temps across the tread. I'd guess you need another 0.5-1 degree in the rear. That Hoosier certainly looks like lack of camber.

Just some other things to consider:
-alignment
-tire rubbing in the fenders somewhere
-hot/cold pressures
-driving style (do you toss it in corners hard or are you smooth with inputs?)
You arent wrong on all accounts so good to hear. I do think the hoosier cording is part from hitting the fender/bumper tab, im going to trim that and try again. My other tires were always cording in the rear and I am aggressive/have a bit of a heavy foot. Can these cars get more than 2.5 in the rear though? My alignment guy says the eccentric maxed out at 2.5 but maybe there are other tricks? I would love 3 degrees in the rear so any tips on what I can do is appreciated.
Appreciate 0
      09-23-2021, 07:04 AM   #4
hoki06
Lieutenant
hoki06's Avatar
229
Rep
457
Posts

Drives: 2010 BMW 128i
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: VA

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phloozy View Post
You arent wrong on all accounts so good to hear. I do think the hoosier cording is part from hitting the fender/bumper tab, im going to trim that and try again. My other tires were always cording in the rear and I am aggressive/have a bit of a heavy foot. Can these cars get more than 2.5 in the rear though? My alignment guy says the eccentric maxed out at 2.5 but maybe there are other tricks? I would love 3 degrees in the rear so any tips on what I can do is appreciated.
Sounds like you've got some good ideas. Trim that bumper tab and then see if you can smooth out inputs. The Hoosiers operate well at low slip angles so tossing it in hard is not the best method and will increase wear. Smooth is fast.

As for adding camber in the rear on these cars, I don't have any experience there. All of my racing days were in an E36 M3. I'm assuming someone like SPL makes some adjustable rear arms to help dial in more camber.
Appreciate 1
Phloozy219.00
      09-23-2021, 08:17 AM   #5
tsk94
Lieutenant Colonel
tsk94's Avatar
Canada
1515
Rep
1,588
Posts

Drives: E92 M3, E82 128i, F82 M4, E36
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Calgary

iTrader: (2)

Can you get more caster up front? Look like you need more negative camber based on that outside wear. I don't know if you have adjustability to add more static camber, otherwise the next step would be to add some caster to gain some dynamic camber under load which should help.
Appreciate 0
      09-23-2021, 08:56 AM   #6
Mach3M3
Private First Class
14
Rep
101
Posts

Drives: 2011 E82 128i
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Columbus, OH

iTrader: (0)

18 heat cycles seems like plenty to me given the car weighs 2900 lbs. What are you trying to compare to?
Appreciate 0
      09-24-2021, 01:46 PM   #7
amg6975
Captain
amg6975's Avatar
487
Rep
634
Posts

Drives: '12 M1.5, '05 ZHP, '98 M3/4/5
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Rochester NY

iTrader: (0)

I run 3.5 degrees front, 2.5 rear with no toe in the front and have never had an issue like this. Never run slicks but 200TWs always seem to do really good on my car.
Appreciate 0
      09-25-2021, 10:01 AM   #8
Phloozy
Second Lieutenant
219
Rep
210
Posts

Drives: BMW 128
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Pennsylvania

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by amg6975 View Post
I run 3.5 degrees front, 2.5 rear with no toe in the front and have never had an issue like this. Never run slicks but 200TWs always seem to do really good on my car.
Good to know, I think I may have a rubbing issue I need lol address along with a heavy foot
Appreciate 0
      09-25-2021, 12:28 PM   #9
mKilgore
Second Lieutenant
170
Rep
215
Posts

Drives: F82 M4
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Nashville, TN

iTrader: (1)

Do you take tire temps and pressures while at the track? As mentioned above, it is best to have someone help take temps and pressures after you have just come off the track so you can have at least some idea of what the tire is doing. I have never run the tires you have (AO52s, RC-1s, or R7s), but I have never had a set wear or chunk off like what you are describing. At 4 degrees camber front, and 2.5 degrees camber rear, I don't think it is a camber issue. As hoki06 suggested, check your alignment specs first. You know what the camber is, but what about toe and caster? Once you get that checked off the list, check the fenders and wheel wells for signs of rubbing. Try and address the fender/wheel well issue if possible. Then, when at the track, if you aren't already, get in the habit of at least taking pressures and temps before you go out and immediately when you get back in the pits. Best practice is to do it during the session, but I get that can be hard sometimes, especially without any help. When you go out on track, how soon do you start pushing the car?
Appreciate 0
      09-27-2021, 04:16 AM   #10
rac
Private First Class
rac's Avatar
27
Rep
128
Posts

Drives: 2008 135i 6MT
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Perth, Australia

iTrader: (0)

What are your front and rear spring rates and sway bars?
Appreciate 0
      10-12-2021, 12:25 PM   #11
imported_mega
Colonel
No_Country
122
Rep
2,199
Posts

Drives: various bmw's
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: neverland

iTrader: (0)

-4 degrees on that hoosier I would be looking at too low a tire pressure, what does pyro say? should be around 40psi hot
__________________
You only need two tools in life - WD-40 and Duct Tape. If it doesn't move and should, use the WD-40. If it shouldn't move and does, use the duct tape.
Driving e82, e72, e85, R53 Gone but not forgotten..
1974 2002, many various 3s.
Appreciate 0
      10-12-2021, 12:28 PM   #12
Phloozy
Second Lieutenant
219
Rep
210
Posts

Drives: BMW 128
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Pennsylvania

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by imported_mega View Post
-4 degrees on that hoosier I would be looking at too low a tire pressure, what does pyro say? should be around 40psi hot
about 37psi hot. I was doing 28psi cold pressures. I will take better readings this weekend. I also think the tires may have been getting cut on the fender tab and I have since trimmed that so hopefully that helps. I can try running the pressures a bit higher.
Appreciate 0
      10-13-2021, 04:24 PM   #13
Ginger_Extract
California-bound
Ginger_Extract's Avatar
United_States
383
Rep
1,480
Posts

Drives: BMW 135i
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Los Angeles, CA

iTrader: (3)

Spring. Rates. Increase them, a lot.
__________________
Streets of Willow: 1:27.7 CW 11/15/15; 1:29.5 CCW 8/15/15 |||| Autoclub Speedway ROVAL (CCW): 1.52.6 - 12/2/17
Willow Springs - Big Willow (CW): 1:35.8 - 3/31/18 |||| Buttonwillow #13 (CW): 1:59.3 1/27/18
https://www.facebook.com/JakeStumphRacing |||| http://www.youtube.com/user/RaceMeMZ3
Appreciate 0
      10-14-2021, 05:08 AM   #14
Phloozy
Second Lieutenant
219
Rep
210
Posts

Drives: BMW 128
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Pennsylvania

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginger_Extract View Post
Spring. Rates. Increase them, a lot.
Haha I'm already pretty damn stiff. 650f/1100r
Appreciate 0
      10-14-2021, 12:21 PM   #15
bbnks2
Colonel
1207
Rep
2,025
Posts

Drives: 135i N55
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: NY

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phloozy View Post
Haha I'm already pretty damn stiff. 650f/1100r
What is the front toe set to? Maybe control arm bushing is shot? M3 control arms up front?

To be fair I don't think I have ever seen a BMW with good wear across the entire face of the tire lol. In the rear you eat the inside shoulder (acceleration) and in the front you will always end up eating the outside shoulder (from the cornering forces). Rotating front to back helps "even" that out and I usually always end up with 2/32" left on the center tread when both the inside and outside edges are corded.
Appreciate 0
      10-17-2021, 02:15 PM   #16
PcarDefector
Private First Class
Canada
65
Rep
125
Posts

Drives: 135i DCT+PS+PE / X3 M40i Stock
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phloozy View Post
a set of Hoosiers R7s in 18 HC. :P
18 heat cycles from a set of R7 is impressive. I think my Hoosiers on a Type-R race car would last 5-6HC or 2-3 hours rotating F-R axles. OTOH, my Toyo RA1 would last forever; since they were non-directional tires, I could flipp them on the rim so that the inside shoulder was on the outside and visa versa.

Have you tried another tire in the TW200 rating. I'm thinking about using the RT660 as they are a non-directional design and seem to have reasonable tire life.

Tire life still looks good after 20 sessions on this E36.


Also stickier than the A052 that you were using.
https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/t...en-rt660-tire/
Appreciate 0
      10-17-2021, 02:17 PM   #17
08SlowE82
Private
08SlowE82's Avatar
United_States
53
Rep
93
Posts

Drives: 08 e82 128i
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoki06 View Post
Lots of factors at play here. To verify your camber settings, get a pyrometer and a friend in the hot pits to help you take hot tire temps across the tread. I'd guess you need another 0.5-1 degree in the rear. That Hoosier certainly looks like lack of camber.

Just some other things to consider:
-alignment
-tire rubbing in the fenders somewhere
-hot/cold pressures
-driving style (do you toss it in corners hard or are you smooth with inputs?)
This 👆🏻
Appreciate 0
      10-19-2021, 12:00 PM   #18
amg6975
Captain
amg6975's Avatar
487
Rep
634
Posts

Drives: '12 M1.5, '05 ZHP, '98 M3/4/5
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Rochester NY

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PcarDefector View Post
18 heat cycles from a set of R7 is impressive. I think my Hoosiers on a Type-R race car would last 5-6HC or 2-3 hours rotating F-R axles. OTOH, my Toyo RA1 would last forever; since they were non-directional tires, I could flipp them on the rim so that the inside shoulder was on the outside and visa versa.

Have you tried another tire in the TW200 rating. I'm thinking about using the RT660 as they are a non-directional design and seem to have reasonable tire life.

Tire life still looks good after 20 sessions on this E36.

Also stickier than the A052 that you were using.
https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/t...en-rt660-tire/
The 660 is an amazing tire for me so far, for how fast it is and how good it feels the wear is excellent. That said, there is absolutely no way it has the raw pace in a time-trial type setting that the A052 does.
Appreciate 0
      11-01-2021, 04:05 PM   #19
mad_hatter
Enlisted Member
mad_hatter's Avatar
Canada
64
Rep
48
Posts

Drives: 128i, MK7 GTI
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Ontario, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Just coming in to say thanks for the info. I autocrossed mine for the first time this year, and had what I felt was fairly aggressive alignment settings but still managed to murder the outside shoulder

It seems like the solution is more camber, and less ham-fistedness

Current specs:
245/40/17 RE71R
17x9 BBS LMs
Ohlins R&T 3DM custom valved, vorshlag camber plates
E9x M3 front tension arms
delrin offset bushings in front LCA
M3 front bar, stock 135i rear bar
Whiteline RSFB

Front:
-3.8deg camber
0 toe
caster unknown

Rear:
-1.8deg camber
0 toe
caster unknown
Appreciate 0
      11-01-2021, 04:07 PM   #20
Phloozy
Second Lieutenant
219
Rep
210
Posts

Drives: BMW 128
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Pennsylvania

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mad_hatter View Post
Just coming in to say thanks for the info. I autocrossed mine for the first time this year, and had what I felt was fairly aggressive alignment settings but still managed to murder the outside shoulder

It seems like the solution is more camber, and less ham-fistedness

Current specs:
245/40/17 RE71R
17x9 BBS LMs
Ohlins R&T 3DM custom valved, vorshlag camber plates
E9x M3 front tension arms
delrin offset bushings in front LCA
M3 front bar, stock 135i rear bar
Whiteline RSFB

Front:
-3.8deg camber
0 toe
caster unknown

Rear:
-1.8deg camber
0 toe
caster unknown
Ya your setup seems fine, I think its really just a matter of being smoother with these cars. Also make sure you arent rubbing. I think a lot of my recent wear was the fender cutting the tire.
Appreciate 0
      11-01-2021, 04:14 PM   #21
mad_hatter
Enlisted Member
mad_hatter's Avatar
Canada
64
Rep
48
Posts

Drives: 128i, MK7 GTI
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Ontario, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phloozy View Post
Ya your setup seems fine, I think its really just a matter of being smoother with these cars. Also make sure you arent rubbing. I think a lot of my recent wear was the fender cutting the tire.
Thanks. I'll have a good look at it this weekend, it's going up on jackstands for the winter (and improvements) - so I can inspect the fender for evidence.
Appreciate 1
Phloozy219.00
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:59 PM.




1addicts
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST