1er coupe U.S. price point???

[mikeo]

Because it's a BMW, not a Cadillac?

[BForbes]

Originally Posted by mikeo

Because it's a BMW, not a Cadillac?

Exactly. I dont think Mpower quite gets it after reading and responding to your posts here in the pricing. I mean think about it, If mazda but the N54 engine in a Mazda 3 would u buy it?? Same reason why people dont buy GTO, and SSR, and whatever else chevy puts a 400hp Corvette engine in. They have every right to do 36k even though I dont think they would.

[alex2364]

You guys are giving BMW too much credit. I will not buy a BMW just because of the name. If you guys are happy throwing money away, be my guest.

[The Stig]

Originally Posted by alex2364

You guys are giving BMW too much credit. I will not buy a BMW just because of the name. If you guys are happy throwing money away, be my guest.

Wow, that was insightful coming from someone who drives a luxury CIVIC.

Thank you for that wonderful post.

If you would like to PM me, i can give you a number for somebody who cares. :biggrin:

[alex2364]

Originally Posted by HH007

Wow, that was insightful coming from someone who drives a luxury CIVIC.

Thank you for that wonderful post.

If you would like to PM me, i can give you a number for somebody who cares. :biggrin:

Wow, so you have nothing better to say other than to bash me for the car I drive. Well I hope you have fun in your dream world of BMW badge whores.

[imported_Sweeper]

Originally Posted by alex2364

You guys are giving BMW too much credit. I will not buy a BMW just because of the name. If you guys are happy throwing money away, be my guest.

Originally Posted by alex2364

Wow, so you have nothing better to say other than to bash me for the car I drive.

What are you bitching about? You just bashed the BMW owned by HH007 and others on this board! :roundel:

[BimmerBoi2100]

A lot of guys don't really understand what buying a luxury car is. When buying something like a BMW, you are buying things like zero maintenance costs for the first 4 years( granted you don't void the warranty) How many cars can anyone name that gives you that. You buy some of their exclusive maintence packages like BMW calling the cops if you were to get in a accident. Or being able to track down your car if somebody steals it. With the new techonology (Comfort Access) it makes the car almost un-stealable. How many cars do that? How about somebody monitoring your cars' maintenance for you. Hell I do like the idea of somebody calling me up and telling me that I need to change my oil or something like that. When buying a BMW or any premium luxury car you buy in to the fact that you will be well taken care of. It's not about buy a car perse' you buy the special programs that come with it. Can anyone name me a service (besides AAA) that will bring you gas if you run out of it on the highway? I don't know about you guys...but I like that sh*t.

[ZweierCoupe]

Originally Posted by Brookside

Great theory, but it doesn't fly. Taking the BMW employee price as the lowest number is just the wrong tactic.

Actually, the basic presumption that BMW will not sell their cars in the U.S. for less to workers (not taking into account any taxes, of course) not only makes sense, because it might otherwise erode employee morale, but also works very well as a basis for calculations (which is why I brought it up in the first place), as can be shown in an example, based on available information from the official BMW sites.

Originally Posted by ibeam81

I would be curious to see what price was calculated if you did the same conversion on a 335i coupe starting from the price that BMW workers paid.

The listed basic price in Germany for the 335i is €44650. Multiply this by the employee discount factor of 0.782, which tends to apply across the board, then further divide that result by 1.19 to take away the 19% tax, yielding €29341.43.

The entry price for the 335i in the US is $40800 + $775 destination charge (shipping and customs). When dividing the two numbers (40800/29341), the implied $/€ currency conversion rate for equilibrium between the American MSRP and the BMW employee price is 1.3905, which it has not yet been attained. Compare that with last week's high of 1.385. This means that even at current rates the employee gets it for slightly less, before taxes, than the listed price in the US.

Of course one must take into account, that at the time the 335i started to sell in German, the conversion rate was near 1.27. The price determined for the American market is derived in part on currency hedging (i.e. options and futures contracts), which are always based on the existing market conversion rate at the time of locking into the contract. Multiple deals like this at different times averages out the effective rates. Obviously, one can't lock into favorable rates too far into the future when the general trend of the Euro is rising, so later financial currency deals will be more expensive. So from BMW's perspective, based on the conversion rate they calculate, their employees still get the car for less, before taxes.

Using this methodology with the same implied rate of 1.905 at equilibrium prices, determined above, would yield a price for the 135i of $35592 + shipping charges. I stated in an earlier post in this thread that the absolute minimum price would be $36K, but guessed it would be even higher, with the uppermost threshold being "40 Grand". This is based on the following considerations:

* Currency hedging rates going into the future years are less favorable than they were before.

* Prices for the 335i will go up in Germany in September, and they most certainly will go up as well in the US because it's the beginning of a new model year. Therefore the necessary price gaps between 335i and 135i models will also be maintained.

* From the perspective of employee morale, BMW will likely want to price the 135i so that it won't cost less than the discounted worker rate even when taking likely (with a particular percentage degree of certainty) future market conversion rates into account. An implied conversion rate of 1.42, which we're likely to see soon, would yield a price of $36346, and a somewhat less likely implied rate of 1.44 yields $36858.

Therefore, at this time it seems most likely that the starting price would be around $37.5K, including shipping, yet before taxes, unless the dollar's value deteriorates more significantly. Remember, the price will likely not be published for another half year. If somebody in the US wants to bitch and whine that this is too expensive, especially considering the price for Germans (including tax) will be a whopping $53360 at today's exchange rate, then such a person can't possibly be a serious BMW aficionado and should have fun with some bland Japanese car instead.

[Brookside]

You know I admire all the work you put into your posts Zweir but I'm certain the 135 won't be anywhere close to 40k (base msrp) or 39k or 38k or 37k.
It's not going to be there.
You don't have to keep building on your arguement..obviously you
believe you are right. We will know soon where the price is at.

[BForbes]

Originally Posted by Brookside

You know I admire all the work you put into your posts Zweir but I'm certain the 135 won't be anywhere close to 40k (base msrp) or 39k or 38k or 37k.
It's not going to be there.
You don't have to keep building on your arguement..obviously you
believe you are right. We will know soon where the price is at.

I'm with Brookside on this one. Why the hell would BMW put a 10,000 gap between a 128i and 135i. There isnt even that much of a gap on the 328i to 335i. Or even the early 5series models.

[ibeam81]

Originally Posted by onehots2k

I'm with Brookside on this one. Why the hell would BMW put a 10,000 gap between a 128i and 135i. There isnt even that much of a gap on the 328i to 335i. Or even the early 5series models.

I agree that a $10K gap between a 128i and 135i is extreme, but OTOH I believe that the gap will be larger than that between a base 328i coupe and a base 335i coupe (which is $5500).

Based upon information released to date it looks like the base version of the 135i will be a M Sport, so IMHO there's room for a larger gap between the 1er coupes than between the base E90 coupes. If you added the M Sport package (exterior, interior, brakes, etc.) to the 335i coupe that would be a more valid comparison.

Also, there is normally some price overlap between model lines and with the 328i coupe at $35,300 and factoring in the M Sport package for the 135i I easily can see a price of between $36K and $37K. :frown:

There's also the projected price increase by BMW for the coming model year (Does anyone know what this will be?) and the distinct possibility that the dollar will be even weaker by the time the 135i goes on sale (I understand that BMW has some stong banking ties, but their pockets are not infinitely deep). Basically, I don't think that it bodes well for a $35K price for the 135i.

I'm not trying to rain on any parades, but while there have been some strong arguments for a $35K price I do have some doubts. Anyway I sincerely hope that I'm wrong, but only time will tell. In the meantime I'll just save up my pennies and try to deal with the deferred gratification that comes from wanting a 1er. :roundel:

[atr_hugo]

135i - standard with adaptive headlights, M-Aero, sport package - the 'Price is Right' over/under is $34,995. ; -)

[Deutsch]

Originally Posted by alex2364

You guys are giving BMW too much credit. I will not buy a BMW just because of the name. If you guys are happy throwing money away, be my guest.

You're an albatross in a sea of tiger sharks, watch it.

You don't pay a wad of cash for a BMW because of the name, you're buying an experience and some of the best(superior) technology available on the automotive market today.

[menotakoala]

Originally Posted by Deutsch

You're an albatross in a sea of tiger sharks, watch it.

haha what a wonderful way to describe us.

[ZweierCoupe]

Originally Posted by MPower

As I have said before, 34,000 is perfectly reasonable. 36 isnt. I was reading an article about the upcoming CTS and it dawned on me: the new CTS with a direct-injection engine will start at around 36 grand. That car comes with more horsepower (less torque...), a six-speed gearbox, and a limited-slip differential. So why should the smaller 135i cost any more, if not significantly less?

You must be kidding, right? Are you possibly referring to the 2009 4-door CADDY-LACK-YAK-YAK (chuckle), for which camouflaged development mule spy shots have recently been published? Aside from the considerable value depreciation of any car with that brand name and the associations people draw (urban housing projects, suburban retirement clubs, funeral homes), the car you're referring to doesn't even exist! Have you hear the term "vaporware"?

For reasons I've already explained thoroughly above, people who think the 135i will go for less than $36000 need to stop dreaming and get a grip on reality! I haven't read a single convincing argument here for why this would be otherwise. Trotting out a rather old photo of a one eighth company shareholder, Ms. Klatten, and pointing out good banking connections (which any big corporation in Germany has) doesn't make a serious case for why BMW would sell one of the hottest cars in next year's marketplace to American consumers for less than what their own employees will get it for. Just for reference, again, the price a consumer in Munich or Leipzig will have to fork out for this car is $45K, before 19% taxes.

Originally Posted by ibeam81

Also, there is normally some price overlap between model lines and with the 328i coupe at $35,300 and factoring in the M Sport package for the 135i I easily can see a price of between $36K and $37K.

With the destination charge, the 328i is already over $36K, and price increases will be coming. The implicit supposition that some must have erroneously made, is that the sporty 135i should be sold for less than its bigger, heavier brother car, with a relatively lame and tame, de-tuned engine (not even available in Germany), and without a sports package. Frankly, this doesn't make any sense at all.

Yet another way to confirm that the 135i will not sell for under $36 is to look at base prices ratio between 135i and 335i coupé in Germany, 87.23%, and carry this over to the US, with the destination charge added on afterwards:

(40800)(0.8723)+775= $36366

This could be the theoretical price if (a) the 135i were already available now and (b) were not a big hit in high demand with long delivery times due to order waitlist backup, as is the case with the BMW's new X5 SUV. But, as I've indicated, there will be a price increase in the upcoming model year, so the price obtained above will go higher too.

American pricing for upcoming models will be based in part on demand projections (if it turns out, by the end of the year, that the 135i is such a hot seller, as many on this forum have assumed it will, then the 87.23% entry price ratio vis a vis the 335i coupé might go beyond 90% for the American market) as well as currency rate projections, which in turn are based on economic expectations. In this regard, since the American economy seems headed for the toilet in the near future (e.g. unsustainable real estate bubble in many regions with resulting mortgage crisis, consistent GDP growth rates below actual population growth burdened by substantial and illegal immigration, continued loss of well-paying manufacturing and information technology jobs due to outsourcing, exceeding costs for the failed war in Iraq on behalf of Zionism, etc.), consequently there is general agreement that the dollar will be more than 1.4 in the coming months.

Factory utilization at BMW's plants is already very high right now, so there is really no reason whatsoever to be discounting a very successful car that has yet to go into serial production. If people feel that the yet to be published price for the 135i in America (which will still be a great bargain compared to what others, outside the US must pay) is too high for them, then they have the option of (a) taking out a bigger loan, (b) buying a used version a couple of years later, (c) getting the 128i instead, or (d) buying a different brand.

Regarding the latter suggestion, take a look at BMW's Bavarian competitor to see what sporty car you can get. For instance, the Audi A3 3.2 S quattro, with 250 horsepower, starts at $34K + destination charge. If they announce a price increase too (I don't know), then it'll likely start at more than $35K. According to internet data from the manufacturer, this car accelerates from 0 to 100 km/h in 6.3 seconds (compared to 5.3 seconds for the 135i), yet still gets worse mileage in both city and country driving than the BMW. Assuming this Audi model as a frame of reference, what surcharge would most people on this list be willing to pay at an auction to step inside a 135i instead?

Another alternative for some may be to just go buy a Cadillac.

[menotakoala]

Ok, using the current exchange right as of right now, the pricing for a 335i coupe in the United Kingdom starts at 33,900 GB Pounds. Convert that to US Dollars and it should be $68,573.27. Looking at the BMW 550i as well, UK pricing would have it at 47,879 GBP. Convert that to USD and you're looking at a whopping $96,812.63 in USD. I have a strong feeling that the 135i's starting price will not exceed $34,000 USD. But we'll just have to wait and see.

[inTgr8r]

I think you guys need to worry less about where BMW will price it.
& MORE on where the US dollar is trending.

[ibeam81]

Originally Posted by ZweierCoupe

Yet another way to confirm that the 135i will not sell for under $36 is to look at base prices ratio between 135i and 335i coupé in Germany, 87.23%, and carry this over to the US, with the destination charge added on afterwards:

(40800)(0.8723)+775= $36366

Thanks! That's the number (0.8723 * $40,800 = $35,590) that I've been wanting to see.

FYI, many buyers don't include the destination charge when quoting prices. Just call it wishful thinking. :wink:

So at $35,590 it looks like everyone is partially right. Many buyers will tend to see $35K even though it's closer to $36K. :w00t:

There is still one little wrinkle in this calculation: these figures are based on current pricing and BMW is projecting a price increase for the next model year. When the price increase is included, I suspect that we will see a number above $36K. Add destination and shake resulting in the horrifying $37K number. :eyebulge:

[ibeam81]

Originally Posted by inTgr8r

I think you guys need to worry less about where BMW will price it.
& MORE on where the US dollar is trending.

This is certainly a factor and not an encouraging one at that. Unfortunately it is what it is. Maybe we'll get lucky and the dollar will reverse it's downward trend, but I'm not counting on it.

[hector]

leftlanenews.com; g37 coupe pricing released; starts at $34,250

[atr_hugo]

Originally Posted by hector

leftlanenews.com; g37 coupe pricing released; starts at $34,250

That'll put some pressure on a $35K starting price for the 135 seeing as how the the G37 is compared to the 335i. Hmmmm, as Arty Johnson used to say, "veddy interestink."

[SCA]

Originally Posted by hector

leftlanenews.com; g37 coupe pricing released; starts at $34,250

Yeah, I just posted the below in the $37k poll/thread.


Speaking of automobiles in the $35k range, the Infiniti G37 Coupe pricing was released today.

Infiniti's upcoming G37 Coupe is set to arrive in showrooms on August 21 and it'll start at $34,250 in the United States for the base 5-speed automatic version. An uplevel Journey model starts at $35,000 with an automatic transmission. The 6-speed manual transmission model starts at $35,550.

If the 135i is priced higher than a G37 it certainly will be a tough sell for BMW considering the G37 is a direct competitor with the 335i.