A 1M replacement: which would be the best consolation prize?

[IEDEI]

i'm sure plenty of you have read the first F80 M3 owner's thread....but he's also a 1M owner and has been comparing the two cars.......he seems to really be impressed by the new M3.

Originally Posted by uae247

1M steering = F80 M3 on Sport
1M throttle = F80 M3 on efficient
1M on Sport= F80 on Sport
F80 on Sport+= no applicable to 1M

my 1m has akrapovic downpipes and ESS tune only. Power is good but M3 builds power stronger and feels much faster.

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...5#post15896295

[ozinaldo]

Originally Posted by Dr_zito

Hola Ozi, when is the M3-M4 arriving to Chile??

Asked it today at the dealer; they predict June but only a first one which will be likely used as a show car for a few days and then be delivered to its owner. They were skeptical about test drives since they said that there is a waiting list for the M3/M4.

[Narek]

Didn't read all the pages of this thread, so sorry if I repeat what others may have said.

As far as I'm aware, you can get the Alpha 4C without the CF weird looking lights - the standard ones look almost identical to pre-production ones.

Have you considered CLA45? It has quite a punchy engine, ISNT a hatchback (hate hatchbacks), and has plenty of room for your kids at the back. I was considering that before the 1M, but unfortunately we don't get the CLA in the Middle East - the local dealers feel it clashes too strongly with the C-Class market.

The Maserati Ghibli is a great car in my opinion, despite not having test driven it, and as far as I know (for the Mid East anyway) it has an almost identical price to the Alpha 4C.

All in all, from the 3 that you mentioned, I think the Alpha is more of the "occasion" - definitely the car I would like to be in.

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by Narek

Didn't read all the pages of this thread, so sorry if I repeat what others may have said.

As far as I'm aware, you can get the Alpha 4C without the CF weird looking lights - the standard ones look almost identical to pre-production ones.

Have you considered CLA45? It has quite a punchy engine, ISNT a hatchback (hate hatchbacks), and has plenty of room for your kids at the back. I was considering that before the 1M, but unfortunately we don't get the CLA in the Middle East - the local dealers feel it clashes too strongly with the C-Class market.

The Maserati Ghibli is a great car in my opinion, despite not having test driven it, and as far as I know (for the Mid East anyway) it has an almost identical price to the Alpha 4C.

All in all, from the 3 that you mentioned, I think the Alpha is more of the "occasion" - definitely the car I would like to be in.

ALFA, not Alpha

[valentinbmw]

Maybe, just maybe i think you're better option is the M3/4 i would never concidered a mini or an alfa, the cayman s sounds reasonable, m2 sound like the better op. For you but is too far away.
Get the M3/4, for a year or two meanwhile the M2 comes out.
By the way, if i knew that you want to get rid of your car sooner i would have buy it in a jiffy, i spend almost a year searching for a VO 1M.

[Narek]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

ALFA, not Alpha

My bad.

[ozinaldo]

Originally Posted by valentinbmw

Maybe, just maybe i think you're better option is the M3/4 i would never concidered a mini or an alfa, the cayman s sounds reasonable, m2 sound like the better op. For you but is too far away.
Get the M3/4, for a year or two meanwhile the M2 comes out.
By the way, if i knew that you want to get rid of your car sooner i would have buy it in a jiffy, i spend almost a year searching for a VO 1M.

Luck! Also when it comes to 1M I noticed that I am usually not acting rationally so I was not really trying to sell as seriously as I should.

[ozinaldo]

Originally Posted by Narek

Didn't read all the pages of this thread, so sorry if I repeat what others may have said.

As far as I'm aware, you can get the Alpha 4C without the CF weird looking lights - the standard ones look almost identical to pre-production ones.

Have you considered CLA45? It has quite a punchy engine, ISNT a hatchback (hate hatchbacks), and has plenty of room for your kids at the back. I was considering that before the 1M, but unfortunately we don't get the CLA in the Middle East - the local dealers feel it clashes too strongly with the C-Class market.

The Maserati Ghibli is a great car in my opinion, despite not having test driven it, and as far as I know (for the Mid East anyway) it has an almost identical price to the Alpha 4C.

All in all, from the 3 that you mentioned, I think the Alpha is more of the "occasion" - definitely the car I would like to be in.

Dropped the Alfa 4C idea for now, engine-transmisson continues to bug me and too much of a toy for one. l see CLAs everyday here and I find them hideous honestly, A is better looking so new M3 is without real competition in my eyes. Also I know that if I go manual (of course I will) I won't miss the 1M too much (wishful thinking probably but still).

[Pete_vB]

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...-gt4-spy-shots

[Die ///M Rakete]

Originally Posted by Pete_vB

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...-gt4-spy-shots

Oh man...that car is going to be the effen ticket!!!!

[ace11]

Originally Posted by Pete_vB

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...-gt4-spy-shots

this gt4 version will be it for me for sure... in the meantime i will torture the gts i got an amazing deal and will pick it up some time at the beginning of july. you can expect report between the 1M and GTS mid-july

[Pete_vB]

Originally Posted by EIN M

Oh man...that car is going to be the effen ticket!!!!

If they offer a manual...

Originally Posted by ace11

this gt4 version will be it for me for sure... in the meantime i will torture the gts i got an amazing deal and will pick it up some time at the beginning of july. you can expect report between the 1M and GTS mid-july

I'll be interested to hear what you think. I've spent some time recently in my buddy's Cayman S with a 3.8 Carrera S motor. Totally different than the 1M...

How'd you get a deal on a GTS- are they having trouble moving them, or?

[ayao]

Originally Posted by Pete_vB

If they offer a manual...


I'll be interested to hear what you think. I've spent some time recently in my buddy's Cayman S with a 3.8 Carrera S motor. Totally different than the 1M...

Totally different in what ways?

[ace11]

Originally Posted by Pete_vB

If they offer a manual...


I'll be interested to hear what you think. I've spent some time recently in my buddy's Cayman S with a 3.8 Carrera S motor. Totally different than the 1M...

How'd you get a deal on a GTS- are they having trouble moving them, or?

haha holy shit, i was thinking of doing the exact same thing - put the 3.8 carrera s engine in the cayman.. my only concern was the balance thats why i couldnt make up my mind yet... how is it? im very interested to hear how it drives....

i got a solid deal through personal connections with the local porsche representation here...

[Die ///M Rakete]

Originally Posted by Pete_vB

If they offer a manual...

tru dat...tru dat.

[IEDEI]

OK so who's selling me their 1M after this bad boy comes out?

The M2 is really starting to look like a beast now.....

[ozinaldo]

One of the most informative reviews from Car Magazine's Ben Barry as reviewer just been posted in the M3 forum and I had to comment there. Here is the link to that thread:

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=988629

Pay attention to how he describes the 1M while reviewing the M4 and then how he directly compares the two at the end when he reaches a conclusion about the M4. My post in that thread is as follows:

"Very informative read imo. Thanks a lot for posting.

The reviewer sure knows how to drive and to express himself; he was among the judges of Evo Car of the Year 2011 when 1M finished an impressive third only behind a McLaren and 911 GT3 RS and ahead of many supercars. He was not among the judges (like Catchpole or C. Harris) who picked the 1M either as their number one or two and also ahead of the Cayman R; he indeed favored the Cayman R at that ECOTY vs 1M and had a few things to say against it. Now, here I see that he couldn't help but recall the 1M as what he described:

"...M Division's brilliant and boisterous little warm-up act for the M4." Agreed 100% here as my personal conviction was always one that 1M was just a science project, a test mule filled with enthusiasm of its engineers and put in real world test by its buyers for the sake of future F8X cars and others all with turbo engines.

At the end of his review, when he concludes about the M4 he directly compares them as "I also think the 1-series M - which was knocked out in a hurry with bits lying around the workshop - has more personality and is more engaging to drive, even if - or perhaps because - it feels scarier at the limit."

NOW that is big! These are very significant and telling words for me at least, especially remembering that he was not even the biggest fan of the 1M when he had a good seat time with it!

Also, because absolutely the kind of stuff I was suspecting from the F8X development but also was trying to keep the hopes high, since I myself also consider to pass to a M3 very soon, but that is due to some pressing family and work related needs rather than any kind of real complaints about the 1M.

So, this reviewer imo dropped the biggest question, biggest suspicion which encompasses all less important weaknesses (sound, response, steering feel, huge size etc.): is the new M3/M4 engaging, exciting and entertaining enough to make us forget a 1M/E9XM3/E46M3/Z4M/Z3M ...?

We know already that it is an accomplished package with astonishing engineering but that alone simply doesn't answer THE question and this particular reviewer like Sutcliffe before chose a rival over it, and he did precisely because of that, alleged lack of engagement or excitement.

God, how much I would love to test drive one before ordering!

EDIT: My intuition tells me that if I go ahead and order the M3, especially without a test drive, I should leave it as less tech laden or as less 'capable' as possible, meaning no CCB, no adaptive dampers, no DCT and whatever else is possible, might be money well saved! Sometimes in order to reach real greatness one needs to have some weaknesses as well. A fully optioned M3 might be too sophisticated for its own good...maybe."

[eeghie]

Originally Posted by ozinaldo

... God, how much I would love to test drive one before ordering! ...

Top Gear team might have a video review soon. For the 1M their clear cut review cured my last reservations about ordering a new car without test driving it.

[Pete_vB]

Originally Posted by ozinaldo

At the end of his review, when he concludes about the M4 he directly compares them as "I also think the 1-series M - which was knocked out in a hurry with bits lying around the workshop - has more personality and is more engaging to drive, even if - or perhaps because - it feels scarier at the limit."

My intuition tells me that if I go ahead and order the M3, especially without a test drive, I should leave it as less tech laden or as less 'capable' as possible, meaning no CCB, no adaptive dampers, no DCT and whatever else is possible, might be money well saved! Sometimes in order to reach real greatness one needs to have some weaknesses as well. A fully optioned M3 might be too sophisticated for its own good...maybe."

What makes driving a car fun? It's a deceptively tricky question.

Sensation- G forces, sound and feel, are a big part of it. But by themselves they are a party tricky: after you've ridden that roller coaster the tenth time in a row is losses luster.

Control, our ability to make the car do things, is key, otherwise we might as well be sitting in the passenger seat. More control implies higher limits, but on the flip side control also means adjustability of the chassis. We hate understeer because it gives us only one way to go around a corner, one rut that you're stuck in. It's much more fun as a driver to have options.

Involvement, the multi-way communication between man, machine, and the road is critical.

Finally there is Challenge: no matter how fast the car, if it's not challenging it will eventually get boring, but too challenging is just as bad.

Looking at this list you'll notice that some of these elements of "fun" are in direct conflict. Put very sticky tires on an underpowered car and you'll raise the limits, giving you more control, but you'll also get less, because you'll lose chassis adjustability with the throttle. Sensation is great, but too much sensation (ie too loud) is bad. So a "fun" car strikes a delicate balance that very much comes down to the individual driving, and even the mood.

Perhaps the most difficult element to judge is Challenge. I know my preference can change from minute to minute. For me, keeping all four wheels on while hustling down a twisty, wet, slick back-road with a cliff on one side is generally challenging enough, and in that case something like a 4wd hot hatch can be hugely entertaining. Unfortunately the same car at an autocross bores me out of my skull. So the right level of challenge depends hugely on both the driver and the situation.

I haven't driven the new M3 yet, but based on reviews I suspect it and the upcoming M2 will follow similar patterns. Sensations are likely both increased (higher Gs) and decreased (noise, vibration). Control will generally be up, with higher limits, though adjustability (in the form of being to kick the tail out and nimbleness) might be down. Involvement sounds arguably less, though comfort is probably higher.

I suspect the biggest difference in the end will be Challenge. The 1M is unquestionably a challenging car:

Originally Posted by CAR Magazine

The M4 remains trademark throttle adjustable, and far more progressive than the grip, grip, griii...SLIDE of the turbocharged 1-series M Coupe, M Divisions's brilliant and boisterous little warm-up act for the M4.

Is this a good thing or a bad thing? It depends on you, and what you're doing. But it's undoubtedly more challenge than the average M3 buyer wants the majority of the time. In fact with traction control off, which maximizes adjustability, it's probably at the very edge of the market bell curve. Sure, you can leave the traction control on, but then where's the fun in that?

BMW does this with their little M cars. The original M Coupe was the same: a silly, flawed, challenging and highly adjustable car that many adore. But they can't get away with it in the M3 any more. They need to aim that closer to the center of the bell curve, because they want to sell a lot. And mowing hedges with splitters is eventually bad for business. I suspect the M2 needs to be relatively the same, because that's also going to be high-volume. For most people that'll mean it's a "better" car, but for some people it will just as surely make it less fun, at least some of the time. Figure out where you generally fall and you'll have a decent buying guide.

Originally Posted by IEDEI

OK so who's selling me their 1M after this bad boy comes out?

The above is a long way of saying "I don't think so".

[ozinaldo]

Originally Posted by Pete_vB

What makes driving a car fun? It's a deceptively tricky question.

Sensation- G forces, sound and feel, are a big part of it. But by themselves they are a party tricky: after you've ridden that roller coaster the tenth time in a row is losses luster.

Control, our ability to make the car do things, is key, otherwise we might as well be sitting in the passenger seat. More control implies higher limits, but on the flip side control also means adjustability of the chassis. We hate understeer because it gives us only one way to go around a corner, one rut that you're stuck in. It's much more fun as a driver to have options.

Involvement, the multi-way communication between man, machine, and the road is critical.

Finally there is Challenge: no matter how fast the car, if it's not challenging it will eventually get boring, but too challenging is just as bad.

Looking at this list you'll notice that that some of these elements of "fun" are in direct conflict. Put very sticky tires on an underpowered car and you'll raise the limits, giving you more control, but you'll also get less, because you'll lose chassis adjustability with the throttle. Sensation is great, but too much sensation (ie too loud) is bad. So a "fun" car strikes a delicate balance that very much comes down to the individual driving, and even the mood.

Perhaps the most difficult element to judge is Challenge. I know my preference can change from minute to minute. For me, keeping all four wheels on while hustling down a twisty, wet, slick back-road with a cliff on one side is generally challenging enough, and in that case something like a 4wd hot hatch can be hugely entertaining. Unfortunately the same car at an autocross bores me out of my skull. So the right level of challenge depends hugely on both the driver and the situation.

I haven't driven the new M3 yet, but based on reviews I suspect it and the upcoming M2 will follow similar patterns. Sensations are likely both increased (higher Gs) and decreased (noise, vibration). Control will generally be up, with higher limits, though adjustability (in the form of being to kick the tail out and nimbleness) might be down. Involvement sounds arguably less, though comfort is probably higher.

I suspect the biggest difference in the end will be Challenge. The 1M is unquestionably a challenging car:

Is this a good thing or a bad thing? It depends on you, and what you're doing. But it's undoubtedly more challenge than the average M3 buyer wants the majority of the time. In fact with traction control off, which maximizes adjustability, it's probably at the very edge of the market bell curve. Sure, you can leave the traction control on, but then where's the fun in that?

BMW does this with their little M cars. The original M Coupe was the same, a silly, flawed, challenging and highly adjustable car that many adore. But they can't get away with it in the M3 any more. They need to aim that closer to the center of the bell curve, because they want to sell a lot. And moving hedges with splitters is eventually bad for business. I suspect the M2 needs to be relatively the same, because that's also going to be high-volume. For most people that'll mean it's a "better" car, but for some people it will just as surely make it less fun, at least some of the time. Figure out where you generally fall and you'll have a decent buying guide.

The above is a long way of saying "I don't think so".

Anthological post.

[Pete_vB]

Originally Posted by ayao

Totally different in what ways?

Originally Posted by ace11

how is it? im very interested to hear how it drives....

Where the 1M is ragged, a boisterous hooligan, the Cayman, even with another nearly 100 hp, is serenely stable. If the 1M is hot blooded, the Cayman runs ice water- it's so competent that it just lacks drama. It still feels slow to me lower in the rev range. It takes utter stupidity to get even half out of shape.

Try to follow the Cayman (set up on Ohlins) on a bumpy back-road in the 1M and within two corners you'll have no idea which direction it went. But from inside the 1M you'll think you're going faster.

I'm not sure where the limits of the strut rear suspension will show themselves, but when I drove the stock Cayman S I figured it needed another hundred horsepower. Then I drove the Cayman 3.8S, and decided the same thing: it still needs another 100 hp.

I will caveat this by saying that I drove it on hoosiers, and it'd probably move around more on street tires. But I still doubt it'd be enough...

[Artemis]

Brief write-up at the occasion of the 3rd birthday of 1M launch onto the streets. Nothing new - the message is still the same:

"BMW 1M – Still One Of The Best Bimmers Ever
1M | May 13th, 2014 by Horatiu Boeriu
Three years later, many new BMWs on the road, and way more expensive, yet, the BMW 1M remains a head turner. And not necessarily thanks to the weirdish paint job you see below, or the multitude of mods applied to it, but rather because of its stance and power on the road.
Even before it launched in 2011, BMW 1M was sold out at most dealerships across the country. And in places where units were still available, outrageous MSPRs were being thrown around, north of $10,000 over the normal price in some cases.
Then it launched and the car lived up to its hype, lots of hype we might add, fueled by a genius marketing campaign in Europe and North America.
The 1M seen in these photos [...] just show this car means business.
BMW was originally going to release the 1M as a limited production model of 2,700 units. Then due to overwhelming demand, the company lifted the cap and produced a total of 6309 cars until production ended in June 2012. Nevertheless, production of the 1M Coupe stopped in June 2012, with 740 units sold in the US and a further 220 sold in Canada. Total 6309 cars sold worldwide.
Last month, Autoblog tracked down about 20 cars currently on sale and found an average asking price of $61,670 with an average mileage of about 11,600. That’s more than $15,500 over the MSRP when new, or an appreciation of around $5k per year.
The cheapest 1M they found was priced at $55,500 with 14,000 miles. At the high-end we have an 1M Coupe priced at $65,991 with just 8,800 miles. The Black Book also shows the 1M valued at $60,000 for an “Extra Clean” car.
Without a doubt, the 1M will go down in the BMW history as one of the greatest models ever built, and also with certainty it will end up on a list of very rare vehicles twenty years from now."
(source: http://www.bmwblog.com/2014/05/13/bm...-bimmers-ever/)