F1 2021: Saudi Arabian GP - Jeddah (Dec 5)

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by 3798j

Max's "racecraft" is sleazy. Particularly when he's being overtaken. Some think that his "elbows out" defending is admirable...I don't.

'Sleazy' lol I don't think so, plenty of 'red light' districts come to mind with that in mind tho heheh

[3798j]

What comes to my mind...character fail.

[F87source]

Literally the one thing I think holding max back is he doesn't understand the term lose the battle win the war. He wants to win every battle and the war which can't happen some times and that is costing him an easy win this year.

[F87source]

So some new data came out now of max vs. Lewis in terms of a lap around Jeddah, full data isn't out yet but will come soon. So lets just look at some rough data - won't be entirely accurate yet since it is very likely Lewis is still on his old pu and not the brazil one.


First Brazil:



The largest speed deltas at the various measurement points show lewis is faster than Max by as much as ~9kph at the speed trap and as little as ~2kph at intermediate 2. With other areas varying between only 3kph faster to 7kph faster.

Again not some super rocketship speed difference like it was made out to be, because being fast isn't just about straight line speeds it is about cornering and braking too.


This is in Jeddah:

No solid data yet, likely it will come in quali.

If you look at the onboards Lewis is still about 3kph faster - 7kph faster in the highspeeds vs. Max. So about the same delta as before with an old PU.




In summary: flexi wing talk is nonsense because new regulations banned it and yet merc is still faster with an older pu and similar speed deltas- thus it couldn't have been the wing. Rocketship speeds are again nonsense because the speed deltas are similar to before. So like I said before you guys are spreading baseless lies with no evidence to support it, and you're doing it just to support your pro max narrative to try and make it so it is not max's fault he is loosing it is everything else.

[Bubbles]

F1 should consider/require active F1 drivers to perform steward functions for F2/F3 events during the year. This can only improve the sport and actions on track. Certainly it will give drivers an appreciation for the tedious nature of a steward, minimize the whining post-race.

Entertainment value would be there as well and would be an easy add to the super license requirement.

Whatever you think about Max, his attitude changed after attending Stewards training school. Education for rookies and a refresher for veterans.

Time shouldn’t be an issue given the number of political pet projects on the grid.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Bubbles

F1 should consider/require active F1 drivers to perform steward functions for F2/F3 events during the year. This can only improve the sport and actions on track. Certainly will give drivers an appreciation for the tedious nature of a steward, minimize the whining post-race.

Entertainment value would be there as well and would be an easy add to the super license requirement.

Whatever you think about Max, his attitude changed after attending Stewards training school. Education for rookies and a refresher for veterans.

Time shouldn’t be an issue given the number of political pet projects on the grid.

Absolutely, let them make decisions for penalties as well so they can see it isn't easy to make these calls.

[jkoral]

Originally Posted by F87source

Next Lewis hasn't been involved in many dirty moves compared to max...

I was thinking of this the other night when I watched a recap of the 2007 season of Hamilton v. Alonso, shows each start and just enough of the on track action. I watched it all live at the time, but it was great to be reminded of Hamilton's amazing rookie season fighting with Alonso and the Ferraris. I think what stood out to me was being reminded of his racecraft when driving equal machinery with Alonso and of course the Ferraris of Raikkonen and Massa.

(I wonder how many of these races Max watched as a 10 year old).

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by jkoral

(I wonder how many of these races Max watched as a 10 year old).

I think Max was busy winning all 18 races that year in his karting class

[F87source]

Originally Posted by jkoral

I was thinking of this the other night when I watched a recap of the 2007 season of Hamilton v. Alonso, shows each start and just enough of the on track action. I watched it all live at the time, but it was great to be reminded of Hamilton's amazing rookie season fighting with Alonso and the Ferraris. I think what stood out to me was being reminded of his racecraft when driving equal machinery with Alonso and of course the Ferraris of Raikkonen and Massa.

(I wonder how many of these races Max watched as a 10 year old).

It is indeed crazy to see a rookie Hamilton beat a 2 time world champion in Alonso. I hope George does that to an 8 time world champion (to piss off the max fans lol) Lewis next year lol.

[Autobacs]

Originally Posted by 3798j

Throughout his F1 career, Max has shown he's a very fast driver...and a very poor racer.

Yeah, that's why he is just leading the WDC but should have wrapped it up already AND he is only 160 points ahead of Checo.

I am sure Hamilton can't agree with you more.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Autobacs

Yeah, that's why he is just leading the WDC but should have wrapped it up already AND he is only 160 points ahead of Checo. Copy

I think he means poor manners (weaving to defend, never backing out of a corner even when he should - i.e. not being able to recognize to win the war you must lose some battles to live and fight another day), not out right pace persay.

[Autobacs]

Originally Posted by F87source

I think he means poor manners (weaving to defend, never backing out of a corner even when he should - i.e. not being able to recognize to win the war you must lose some battles to live and fight another day), not out right pace persay.

That's what I was thinking to but even if that was the case, saying he is a very poor racer does not hold water given his results.

[Bubbles]

Max and Hammy take new gearboxes for the event. No penalties.

Minimum lap times established, drivers must stay below 1:49.0 between the Safety Car lines shown on the pit lane map.

On a side note, how did Alpha pass on Oscar Piastri.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Bubbles

Max and Hammy take new gearboxes for the event. No penalties.

On a side note, how did Alpha pass on Oscar Piastri.

That is the question...

I think it is because Honda heavily backed yuki because they wanted a Japanese driver in F1, and redbull wanted to thank Honda for then pu they just kept yuki for another season.

[Bubbles]

Originally Posted by F87source

That is the question...

I think it is because Honda heavily backed yuki because they wanted a Japanese driver in F1, and redbull wanted to thank Honda for then pu they just kept yuki for another season.

Seems like a big miss, Oscar is a tremendous talent.

Bigger mystery is why has Stroll has be picked twice this season for post-race inspection. Max was “randomly” picked after Qatar.

Interestingly, one driver hasn’t been picked yet. Here’s a hint, he travels with his photographer and has an affinity for sundresses.

[Bubbles]

Explains why Max was losing the rear end in T1 during FP2.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Bubbles

Explains why Max was losing the rear end in T1 during FP2.

Yeah RB is trying to go for a smaller wing to optimize top speed. We will see what the real results are tomorrow in quali.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Bubbles

Seems like a big miss, Oscar is a tremendous talent.

Bigger mystery is why has Stroll has be picked twice this season for post-race inspection. Max was “randomly” picked after Qatar.

Interestingly, one driver hasn’t been picked yet. Here’s a hint, he travels with his photographer and has an affinity for sundresses.

I had noticed that also, hopefully his turn will happen here.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by F87source

Literally the one thing I think holding max back is he doesn't understand the term lose the battle win the war. He wants to win every battle and the war which can't happen some times and that is costing him an easy win this year.

I don't think it can apply to the current situation with what was and still is Merc's questionable advantage.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

I don't think it can apply to the current situation with what was and still is Merc's questionable advantage.

How so? If he backed out in silverstone and just finished p2 he would have 18 more points than he does today and that alone would likely wrap up the championship. All the other occasions of not backing out he got extremely luck in, eg. he didn't DNF or get damage in Austria when he pushed Lewis wide on the opening lap.

That literally is the definition of losing a battle to win the war, which Max has yet to understand. Will this cost him the championship? I don't know it might, and if it does it will be a painful lesson.



Also, what questionable advantage? There are none, everything has passed every single test. Mercedes have just added enough upgrades and finally figured out how to setup the w12 properly to balance out the car with downforce and drag, along with understeer and oversteer with wing angle, and they are entering the stretch of the season where the track suits their car philosophy - long straights + high speed corners that suits cars with a strong front end which the mercedes has and the redbull doesnt (the RB16B has a more stable rear end but the w12 has a more stable front end as per analysts speaking about the high vs. low rake concepts and their resulting downforce generation patterns).

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by F87source

How so? If he backed out in silverstone and just finished p2 he would have 18 more points than he does today and that alone would likely wrap up the championship. All the other occasions of not backing out he got extremely luck in, eg. he didn't DNF or get damage in Austria when he pushed Lewis wide on the opening lap.

That literally is the definition of losing a battle to win the war, which Max has yet to understand. Will this cost him the championship? I don't know it might, and if it does it will be a painful lesson.



Also, what questionable advantage? There are none, everything has passed every single test. Mercedes have just added enough upgrades and finally figured out how to setup the w12 properly to balance out the car with downforce and drag, along with understeer and oversteer with wing angle, and they are entering the stretch of the season where the track suits their car philosophy - long straights + high speed corners that suits cars with a strong front end which the mercedes has and the redbull doesnt (the RB16B has a more stable rear end but the w12 has a more stable front end as per analysts speaking about the high vs. low rake concepts and their resulting downforce generation patterns).

My suspicions arise when Fia are dragging heels with reference to Mercs rear wing and bendy front wing, intake plenum cooling and other things.
LH's car has yet to be randomly picked this year to be thoroughly checked when everyone else's has as Bubbles has pointed out. It just doesn't add up despite what little attention the stewards have done concerning car 44 on the face of it and Max's car being torn apart by them.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

My suspicions arise when Fia are dragging heels with reference to Mercs rear wing and bendy front wing, intake plenum cooling and other things.
LH's car has yet to be randomly picked this year to be thoroughly checked when everyone else's has as Bubbles has pointed out. It just doesn't add up despite what little attention the stewards have done concerning car 44 on the face of it and Max's car being torn apart by them.

Well FIA be doing FIA things, but the cars still do go through scrutineering just not that random full year down. But still if Mercedes is banking on them not fully checking to cheat, they're risking a DQ when a check occurs. Then right after a massive lawsuit when everyone else finds out.

They did inspect the wings as per RB's request and standard load testing, no issues.

As for the plenum I believe redbull raised concerns but the temp sensors were in the correct place as per the FIA. If RB is still concerned they could at any time request further testing.