M1 vs competition

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by ChrisK

Sorry to hear that. My BMW dealership is one of the best I have ever dealt with.

I know they're franchises, and there are a lot of variables, but you'd think that all the negative customer surveys that come back would make BMW USA force them to improve. Everyone I talk to around town says the same thing, so I know it's not just me.

I've had the car in there 4 times, and every time there's been some sort of drama, and they didn't fix at least one of the major reasons I had it in in the first place.

The last time I had it in for an oil service, I got a lot coolant warning the NEXT DAY, and when I got under there it was obvious they hadn't checked any of the other fluids, or topped off the washer fluid. It makes me wonder if they're even changing the oil.

[adc]

Originally Posted by bmwzone

You are paying more for the brand because performance-wise the 5.0 is superior to the 135i or imaginary 1M and the equal of the 60k M3.

Really?

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take_road_test

109mph 1/4 mile? Oops..

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by adc

Really?

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take_road_test

109mph 1/4 mile? Oops..

Your link doesn't work.

[bmwzone]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

Your link doesn't work.

These do:

5.0 0-60 mph 4.3 sec Quarter mile 12.8 sec @ 110.8 mph
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...est/index.html
M3 0-60 mph 4.3 sec Quarter mile 12.7 sec @ 110.6 mph
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...val/index.html

[adc]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

Your link doesn't work.

Works now.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by adc

Works now.

Nope, still doesn't work. The forum must be cropping something off of it.

Either way, what's your point? The two cars are VERY close in performance.

[footie]

Between the Mustang and M3 I have to agree, their performance is very similar.














EVERYTHING ELSE ISN'T.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by footie

Between the Mustang and M3 I have to agree, their performance is very similar.














EVERYTHING ELSE ISN'T.

Define "Everything else".

Sync is better than iDrive, hands down.
The fuel economy is better on the Mustang.
The price is better.
The cost of upkeep is better.
Cost of modification is lower.
The interior will probably hold up better (I'm thinking the seats specifically)

So, it's pretty obvious that not EVERYTHING ELSE is better on the M3. Personally I hate the styling on the E92 M3. The front and rear treatment are just downright gaudy, but that's a subjective matter.

[oztiks]

Caranddriver has 4.6 to 60 13.2 1/4 109

edmunds has 4.8 to 60 13.0 1/4

autoblog has 4.8 to 60 13.1 1/4

Motortrend special driver has 4.3 to 60 12.8 1/4

All had track pack and 3.73 great numbers, not an M3 by all means.

[PrimoM3]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

My Pontiac dealership was WORLDS better than my BMW dealership. As a matter of fact my current dealership service department is one of the worst I've delt with EVER, and I've owned 35 cars at this point.

That's got to be some of the weakest reasoning I've ever read on here. Valets don't give a damn about a small mass produced BMW.

Okay, dude. Is it time again for our monthly weiner comparing contest? You're good looking, I'm not attractive. You're smart, I'm not intelligent. You're car is fast, my car is slow. Give me a break, Jeremy...

I'm sick of your posts to be honest. While it's true that you do have some clear mechanical knowledge of automobiles, you're just plain making comments here (again) to argue. Are you a lawyer, or on the local high school debate team? You should be.

The fact is that your one Pontiac dealer and BMW dealer are in the far minority. Generally speaking, you're going to get a nice(r) loaner, great service, and a comfortable place to wait while at a BMW dealer. Do you think that happens at most GM and Ford dealers in the country?

And I can tell you that several valets and gas attendants take far better care and compliment my lowly $40K german car. Again, I just witnessed this first hand last week on a road trip.

I was talking about value and cache here. If they're not something you value, so be it.

[footie]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

Define "Everything else".

Sync is better than iDrive, hands down.
The fuel economy is better on the Mustang.
The price is better.
The cost of upkeep is better.
Cost of modification is lower.
The interior will probably hold up better (I'm thinking the seats specifically)

So, it's pretty obvious that not EVERYTHING ELSE is better on the M3. Personally I hate the styling on the E92 M3. The front and rear treatment are just downright gaudy, but that's a subjective matter.

When I mean 'everything else' I was meaning the other aspects of performance. Though I have to say that though I don't think the M3 has the best interior ever or the most adventurist I would class it a world apart from that offered in the Mustang.

Also what price should one place on brand image?

The Mustang, even their most extreme version are still viewed by most as the blue-collar hero, a working man's car for a working man. Personally I prefer a bit better of an image than that which is why I drive the kind of cars I do, call me a snob but I think other people view the person stepping out of an M3 or equivalent that bit better than someone stepping out of a Mustang.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by Primo135

Okay, dude. Is it time again for our monthly weiner comparing contest? You're good looking, I'm not attractive. You're smart, I'm not intelligent. You're car is fast, my car is slow. Give me a break, Jeremy...

I don't even know WTF you're talking about with all this.

I'm not talking about a car I own, or my looks (and damn sure not yours because I've never even seen you thankfully). I've offered an opinion that's counter to yours, and obviously it's angered you to the point that you want to insult me.

Originally Posted by Primo135

I'm sick of your posts to be honest. While it's true that you do have some clear mechanical knowledge of automobiles, you're just plain making comments here (again) to argue. Are you a lawyer, or on the local high school debate team? You should be.

The fact is that your one Pontiac dealer and BMW dealer are in the far minority. Generally speaking, you're going to get a nice(r) loaner, great service, and a comfortable place to wait while at a BMW dealer. Do you think that happens at most GM and Ford dealers in the country?

And I can tell you that several valets and gas attendants take far better care and compliment my lowly $40K german car. Again, I just witnessed this first hand last week on a road trip.

I was talking about value and cache here. If they're not something you value, so be it.

I've actually used about 4 different Pontiac dealerships over the years, and the same number of BMW dealerships. One of the BMW dealerships was much better than the rest, but the other 3 weren't anything special.

The notion that a valet's opinion of you or your vehicle, and the fact that it makes you so mad that I'm not just buying everything BMW is selling tells me that you've probably got some issues.

You think a $40k car gives you "cache"? Give ME a break. The only people who're clammoring over a car in this price range are people at the bottom of the pay scale. If it's really important that you impress valets and car wash attendents, by all means have at it.

[PrimoM3]

Originally Posted by footie

Also what price should one place on brand image?

The Mustang, even their most extreme version are still viewed by most as the blue-collar hero, a working man's car for a working man. Personally I prefer a bit better of an image than that which is why I drive the kind of cars I do, call me a snob but I think other people view the person stepping out of an M3 or equivalent that bit better than someone stepping out of a Mustang.

Precisely the point I was trying to make. It's a value to me, and I'm not sure why some others here aren't accounting for it.

Well said, Footie.

[AlBel1214]

Originally Posted by footie

When I mean 'everything else' I was meaning the other aspects of performance. Though I have to say that though I don't think the M3 has the best interior ever or the most adventurist I would class it a world apart from that offered in the Mustang.

Also what price should one place on brand image?

The Mustang, even their most extreme version are still viewed by most as the blue-collar hero, a working man's car for a working man. Personally I prefer a bit better of an image than that which is why I drive the kind of cars I do, call me a snob but I think other people view the person stepping out of an M3 or equivalent that bit better than someone stepping out of a Mustang.

That right there is the problem... the stereotype...

Break the mold man!! Someones gotta...

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by footie

When I mean 'everything else' I was meaning the other aspects of performance. Though I have to say that though I don't think the M3 has the best interior ever or the most adventurist I would class it a world apart from that offered in the Mustang.
.

It's very similar in all performance aspects. Obviously you expect better interior quality for more than double the price.

Originally Posted by footie

Also what price should one place on brand image?

Very little in my case.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by AlBel1214

That right there is the problem... the stereotype...

Break the mold man!! Someones gotta...

Do you see a trend here? Most of the hardcore BMW supporters are placing serious value on what the car makes other people think of them. They're afraid driving a Mustang would hurt their image.

[PrimoM3]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

The notion that a valet's opinion of you or your vehicle, and the fact that it makes you so mad that I'm not just buying everything BMW is selling tells me that you've probably got some issues.

You think a $40k car gives you "cache"? Give ME a break. The only people who're clammoring over a car in this price range are people at the bottom of the pay scale. If it's really important that you impress valets and car wash attendents, by all means have at it.

You're skewing things here... I didn't say their opinion matters to me, though several have said really nice things, it's the treatment that my car gets. Comprende?

How about what ladies think, too? There's some more value.

Your post did anger me. You and I have a pissing match every month or so it seems. And in the odd weeks, you're arguing with someone else nonsensically. So don't try to tell me I have "problems" bro. Disagreeing is perfectly fine, but you take it to a whole new level.

[PrimoM3]

Originally Posted by AlBel1214

That right there is the problem... the stereotype...

Break the mold man!! Someones gotta...

Yeah, they're called Ford. Getting better/closer, but still not making the cut for me.

I can't beleive some of you are comparing it to the ///M3 now. The 135i was one thing, but now the ///M3???

[AlBel1214]

Originally Posted by Primo135

Yeah, they're called Ford. Getting better/closer, but still not making the cut for me.

I can't beleive some of you are comparing it to the ///M3 now. The 135i was one thing, but now the ///M3???

I was not saying a brand needs to break the mold but people need to break it and give another brand like Ford a chance... If that never happens the narrow minded people(badge whores) who assume Ford=junk will never change...

Its those who dare to cross the line to the darkside that can help the stereotype start to dwindle... haha

Maybe ford should just make it a rule when you buy the car you have to wear a business suit for the first year everytime you drive it... I mean instead of the wife beater most mustang drivers wear..

[oztiks]

Caranddriver has 4.6 to 60 13.2 1/4 109

edmunds has 4.8 to 60 13.0 1/4

autoblog has 4.8 to 60 13.1 1/4

Motortrend special driver has 4.3 to 60 12.8 1/4

All had track pack and 3.73 great numbers. Motortrend has been in love with Ford lately. All in all, Ford in my opinion is doing a really good job.

[BForbes]

Originally Posted by oztiks

Caranddriver has 4.6 to 60 13.2 1/4 109

edmunds has 4.8 to 60 13.0 1/4

autoblog has 4.8 to 60 13.1 1/4

Motortrend special driver has 4.3 to 60 12.8 1/4

All had track pack and 3.73 great numbers. Motortrend has been in love with Ford lately. All in all, Ford in my opinion is doing a really good job.

Most magazines use a 1ft rollout in their tests. Insideline does both. You quoted it without it. They got 4.5seconds to 60mph as the quickest. The quarter mile speed is 110.6mph. Being in California means most of these guys use 91 octane gas instead of the 93octane. Ford even quoted a loss of hp using a lesser grade. I'm curious to see the numbers for all three muscle cars on the same day, same conditions. For further analysis, look at the Edmunds car. It dynoed higher than M/T car yet its slower? Insideline is notorious for getting slower times. There is no doubt in my mind the stang is a 12sec car out the box.

if a manufacturer recommends a higher grade "for best performance," we'll use that. The only exception occurs when 93 octane is recommended, a grade of gasoline that isn't available here in California and many other states. Fortunately, cars that present this problem are few in number and all of them list 91 octane as the minimum requirement, a fuel we can readily obtain. If the runs come out a little slower than a manufacturer's claim, so be it. It's the manufacturer's fault if it optimizes an engine for a grade of fuel that isn't widely available.

[oztiks]

Originally Posted by BForbes

Most magazines use a 1ft rollout in their tests. Insideline does both. You quoted it without it. They got 4.5seconds to 60mph as the quickest. The quarter mile speed is 110.6mph. Being in California means most of these guys use 91 octane gas instead of the 93octane. Ford even quoted a loss of hp using a lesser grade. I'm curious to see the numbers for all three muscle cars on the same day, same conditions.

I am curious also..