The Running Thread

[iX nOOky]

I am registered for a race in August called the TDS put on by UTMB. It is a race that starts in Courmayeur, IT and ends in Chamonix, FR. I did it in 2022, but ended up calling it quits at 100k in. I had two injuries I was dealing with that year, but I tried anyway. It is super hard, 94 miles with 30,000 feet of elevation gain, but you only live once.

A race like that you train months for, so I have already started.

[cotmfk]

Originally Posted by iX nOOky

I am registered for a race in August called the TDS put on by UTMB. It is a race that starts in Courmayeur, IT and ends in Chamonix, FR. I did it in 2022, but ended up calling it quits at 100k in. I had two injuries I was dealing with that year, but I tried anyway. It is super hard, 94 miles with 30,000 feet of elevation gain, but you only live once.

A race like that you train months for, so I have already started.

That is intense! Good luck with it. Not any human can do that...

[UncleWede]

Shaking some dust off this one.

Saturday I did a color run 5k. I had been training at about 35:00, but hadn't covered the full 5 since I signed up about 4 weeks ago.

Competition being what it is, I finished chip time of 32:25. Not bad for a fat old man. . .

[Vulpe]

My first Half Marathon coming up this Sunday. My goal was to do it under 2 hours but from my training I don't think I'm getting anywhere near that.

[UncleWede]

Originally Posted by Vulpe

My first Half Marathon coming up this Sunday. My goal was to do it under 2 hours but from my training I don't think I'm getting anywhere near that.

See my note above about the difference between training and competition timing

[Vulpe]

First Half Marathon in 2:09. Not under 2 like I originally wanted but I'm not upset with it. Felt pretty good through most of it but it's starting to catch up to me now.

[chassis]

Ran a mile today and it felt good.

I stopped running 8 years ago after a 25 year off/on running career. Nothing long: a 5k here and there, one 10k and mainly 2-4 miles per week. Fitness was always my goal, not speed or distance.

Hip bursitis and pain caused me to stop. Root cause was heel striking, to the best of my understanding

Short run today was slow and I focused on a clean and smooth mid-forefoot strike. Post run my hips feel ok. Let’s see how it feels tomorrow morning!

I hope to rehab and learn a new form so I can get back to 2-5 miles per week.

[chassis]

Hips and knees feel OK today. I will start working an easy 1 mile per week into my routine. Goal is to get to 2 miles per run, once per week. It will be a slow process!

[chassis]

1.6 mile run, longest in 8 years. I am focused on redesigning my running form to avoid re-injuring my hips (trochanteric bursae).

I felt a little discomfort in the hips and sacrum/L5 joint. Not bad, hope it recovers normally in a couple of days.

Weather was perfect - mid-50s, with high thin overcast and no wind.

[iX nOOky]

I finished the UTMB race last week. 98.3 miles with 30,920 feet of gain according to my Garmin. Overall an amazing experience, but super, super difficult. I wrote a race report which I will copy and paste here and attach pictures. The purpose of these reports is to document the process, the race, and any issues I encountered and overcame, or that did me in. I have a couple dozen such reports, and I like to look back at the things I did to succeed and the mistakes I made so I hopefully don't make them again. I also like to share with folks willing to read.

here is the text from Google docs:

2025 UTMB TDS RACE REPORT - MISSION ACCOMPLISHED

I signed up for the 2025 edition of this race when my wife found out she got into the UTMB OCC race back in January. I had tried the 2022 edition and was not able to finish, so I was looking for a bit of redemption. I did only one other race this year, the Afton 50k in early July that I only ran 25k of because our running coach was encouraging the wife and I to stay focused on the training for our bigger goal races.

We travelled Friday, August 22nd to Geneva through Minneapolis and took an Alpy bus transfer that took us right to our lodging in Chamonix. We arrived Saturday the 23rd in time to have dinner and get settled. Sunday was packet pickup day, and the race started Monday night at 11:50 PM, which is unusual, but it avoids having runners on a dangerous section of the course during the overnight hours. In 2021 a runner died from a fall on a rainy night on a difficult pass so the start time was modified so that portion could be all run in daylight.

Having most of Sunday to relax was nice, but also nerve wracking. I slept okay Saturday night for about 6 ½ hours, Sunday night not so much. Monday was a long day waiting to get ready for the start, and deciding what to eat and when. I stayed off my feet and laid around and read a lot, and snacked throughout the day without any big meals. It was with some relief when 9:00 PM came and I showered, checked my pack and all of the mandatory gear one more time, and we headed out to catch the start line bus. I discovered my 2 liter bladder had a leak in it, but no problem, we wisely bring spares with us so it was only a minor inconvenience.

Diane was able to ride the bus to the start with me, so we caught the bus to Courmayeur and then of course the bus drops you off about a kilometer from the start line lol, mostly an uphill walk to boot. A much needed warm up for a 153k race I guess. The start was chaotic, I drank a Coke and ate an energy bar, sat around a bit, and then started to line up a half hour before the start. Everyone tries to get to the front of the race at the start, cuz when there are over 1,900 racers the first climbs can be a bottleneck.

The race started, we took off, and I saw the wife twice within the first half mile, and then the shit started to get real as we ran into the dark and out of town and away from the cheering crowds. TDS is a 153k-ish distance race with around 30,000 feet of elevation gain clockwise around the southern side of Mont Blanc. It is considered a more rugged version of UTMB with less travelled trails that are generally more difficult and treacherous, as well as more remote. It also starts with a 4,000 foot climb in the dark which is cool as hell when you see all of the headlamps stretching for a mile around you on the climb. I noticed I was towards the back of the ant line of headlamps, but that was okay, I got to pee right before the start, those that lined up early didn’t. I did see some puddles in the street as we were running though, some guys probably just peed as they were in the crowd standing there hehe.

The first climb had several times when things came to a standstill for almost a minute at a time which was annoying. It was a combination of a few tight switchback turns and also a layer of very light powdery dust that got kicked up and made visibility impossible at times. I remember feeling okay here, every time a mile would tick off on my watch I would try to stay positive when it was under 28 minutes. 28 minutes per mile is the pace required to finish within the 44hrs 55mins hours allowed.

I struggle to recall exactly how each mile progressed along the route. There was one minor aid station on the climb, and I remember them saying the cutoff was in 5 minutes and I thought holy balls I just barely made it. Once on top of the climb there was a short downhill, leading of course into yet another climb. My butt muscles were feeling sore from the start, I had been having issues with them tensing up and being sore. A week before the race I saw my physical therapist/coach and he got rid of some knots and made them feel better for a bit. But the 3 hour car ride and subsequent 11 hours sitting in an airplane seat for the two flights made it sore as hell. I would reach back with each hand and kind of massage the muscle as I moved, and it would feel better for a short while. In case anyone was behind me wondering why I was always rubbing my sexy ass…

Anyway I enjoy running in the dark, I had an excellent Fenix headlamp, and I was mostly feeling okay. There are race videos at select aid stations throughout the race, and looking back on the videos I looked okay early on. I was roughly at about the same point in the race as I was in 2022, so I remembered some of the trail features and when sunrise came a lot of it felt familiar. For many runners, the first 50k of the race or so are critical for keeping a steady pace but not blowing up, because at the 51k mark you have this huge climb that you definitely need to account for. There is a fairly decent downhill before that climb, and it is starting to get warm out, so you need to take it easy and not overdo it or tax your quads too much at that point.

At Bourg St Maurice aid station right before the big climb I had a mandatory gear check, right after I had just put everything back in my running pack. I made it to the big climb right about 10 hours into the race. I had topped off all of my water and ate something, so off I went. I pretty much felt not too good for the climb, I really had some trouble breathing. It was literally one single step per breath. For reference the climb is about 5,900 feet of elevation gain from the valley to the top in only 7.5k distance, right as the sun is starting to heat up for the day in the late morning. It is just steep, frequently at a 45 degree angle or steeper at the corner of the switchbacks. I texted my wife that I was having trouble breathing, I could not go slow enough up such a steep climb and still keep my respiration down. My heart rate was actually low, for some reason I was just breathing like a steam locomotive. Looking at those around me I was not alone, everyone around me was feeling the climb. The kilometers passed like kidney stones.

Eventually I stopped to catch my breath, and after a few times of trying different breathing techniques I found something that helped. I just stopped long enough to let my respiration become completely normal, then I would slowly start again and breath deeply and try to maintain deeper breaths instead of short quicker less effective breaths. It seemed to help, and soon I was more than halfway up the climb at an aid station where they sell cold drinks. I bought a Lipton peach tea, rested as I drank, then continued on. About 4 hours and 45 minutes after I started the climb it leveled out, and started the downhill. OMFG thank you for a slight rest.

After the monster climb there is a sketchy descent called the Passeur de Pralognan. There are cables and chains for holding onto so you don’t fall down the cliff. It is the type of descent where you can’t run or go fast, especially since there are folks in front and behind you. Things get kind of sketchy as my memory for the events after only a week is already fading. But from that point to the almost 100k mark at Beaufort where I dropped last time in 2022 was mostly all downhill. There were some beautiful sections along this one lake that was man made by a dam, so I stopped for a picture. The course was altered due to expected thunderstorms. To keep runners in less exposed areas a bit more road was added, and some of the nasty downhill that I hated last time was removed. I was very happy with the changes, although they were not as major as expected. The downhill still had a lot of rooty sections with frequent switchbacks that just gets annoying to me and my legs after a while.

I arrived at Beaufort after dark on the second night around 11:30 PM after roughly 23 ½ hours and 20,000 feet of climbing. Beaufort is the only point on the course where a drop bag is allowed, and I took some time there to rest, eat, and replace things in my running pack. I had spare clean socks with me, but I only took off my shoes and rubbed my feet for a minute. My feet were sore, but there were no blisters or hot spots, so no reason to change socks or relube because sometimes that actually doesn’t help. I was wearing Altra Olympus 6 shoes and Darn Tough merino wool quarter socks. I refilled my 2 liter bladder with Tailwind, added some new gels and stuff to my food stash, and slammed a Red Bull. Many runners were on mats on the floor sleeping, making complete changes of clothes etc. and we were allowed assistance if you had someone to meet you there.

Surprisingly I was still eating solid food at this point in the race, and I was able to choke food down the entire race, which is not normal for me. I was using GU Roctane gels, Spring energy gels, and some Skratch energy chews or chomps as I call them. I had one large Cliff bar, but the texture did not suit me as it required a lot of chewing, so I only choked down the one. I liked the fact that the Spring energy gels were of a thicker consistency and had a lot of calories. I was trying to eat more calories during my long training runs, and I think pushing down 200-250 at a crack instead of only 100 really helped.

Leaving Beaufort I apparently jumped 237 places because I was in and out faster than a lot of folks that took a lot of time. Throughout the race I consistently gained placing as at the start I was in 1,859th place and I finished in 902nd. How runners that dropped affected that, I do not know. I started out into the dark, and noticed flashes of lightning and thunder around me. The Red Bull had really kicked in so I was clicking along hiking at a steady pace feeling surprisingly good except for that. It did start to rain, but I had not looked at the radar and didn’t know what to expect, if it would persist or pass by quickly. I talked with a guy that was next to me about it, and eventually we stopped under someone’s roof awning and put on our waterproof jackets. A few minutes later it really started to pour and get colder and storm, so we stopped and put on our waterproof pants also. I also put on my waterproof mitten shells to keep my hands warm.

I typically run hot, meaning even in cold weather I can just have a shirt and shorts while other runners have long pants and jackets on. So I was hesitant to keep the waterproof stuff on because we started a long steep climb, and I was getting wetter from sweat underneath rather than rain on my skin. I stopped and took the pants off, almost falling off the side of the steep sidehill trail because it’s hard to get them off over my big muddy size 13 shoes. A bit later I took the jacket off, still a bit concerned that I would get cold and start to not feel my hands or have my core temperature drop too much. As I was stopped and standing there deciding if I should put my jacket back on, a woman about my age from France passed by wearing nothing but shorts and a sleeveless shirt looking tough lol so I put the jacket away. I was wearing a thin long sleeve shirt, and the rain was cold, but going uphill I was perfectly fine. I know in my wife’s race she got a lot more rain than we did. But for most of that night we got rain, thunder and lightning, mud and cold.

On one of these night climbs I noticed we were going right through someone’s yard. A lot of rural people there have gardens and trees and animals so it is kind of weird to stroll by their house and property while they are warm and sleeping inside. You have to try and not look into their windows with your bright headlamp on to avoid disturbing them.

Towards morning after the rain let up it got foggy, and at higher elevations it swirled around the mountain and made visibility somewhat difficult. The trails were wet, muddy, and slippery where there was grass. I can’t remember exactly which climb it was, but that fucker was a 50% grade with big ledges between steps, and very, very treacherous. I am tall with long legs, and I was a bit worried about myself. Someone slipping above me would have taken me out, and we would have fallen enough to get seriously hurt. UTMB TDS is not an easy beginner level race, you have to be fairly confident in your abilities and not afraid of heights or steep scary trails with steep drop offs on one side.

I arrived at Les Contamines about 32 hours into the race after noon. This is about 125k into the race, and likely the point where I knew that the end was near, even if almost 8 hours of relentless up and downhill away yet. I remember putting away my headlamps in the back of my pack and thinking “hell yea I am going to finish this today!”. Going another 25k or so and it requiring almost 8 hours just gives you an idea of how hard the race is to go yet especially given how tired you are. Plus there was still almost 6,000 feet of climbing left to go, a lot of it very steep. At this point in the race I suddenly figured out I had to poop, so I went at the aid station where there were adequate facilities. Unfortunately for me, the restroom did not have toilets, but rather pads on the ground showing where to place your feet, and a hole. Dropping the shorts, squatting waaay down and aiming for the hole hurt my legs, but fortunately there was a handle to hang onto on one side. I really was hoping that the handle was strong lol because I gave it a workout. The yam my bowel produced was composed of the last day and a half of sugary drinks and energy gels etc. and the way it hit you’d have thought I dropped a big rock in there. Klank!

I had neglected to refill my bladder with water after leaving the prior aid station, and after starting the climb of the Col Du Tricot I was a bit worried I would run out. There was a small lodge near the river that had water, but the water supply was merely a trickle and filling a 2 liter bladder would take a half hour, so I carried on. I had an additional 2 soft bottles with 34 ounces in total I ended up using.This was a very challenging climb with its steepness and switchbacks and mud as it had started to rain again. Everyone around me dutifully put their jackets back on, I toughed it out and did not. There were a lot of tourists or locals hitting this climb also, I was impressed. It was very beautiful at the top of the Col, with wonderful views of Mont Blanc and the valleys below despite the rain. I can say if I was a local I’d do that climb a lot, it’s worth Googling if you read this.

I ran down the backside of the climb in the rain with a French guy that spoke passable English and we chatted the whole time we were literally risking injury by jumping from wet rock to wet rock or over ledges and scree that could easily twist an ankle. Think like the Drainpipe at Superior if you know that trail, but many times longer. I lost contact towards the bottom as we stopped to pee, but I kept going at my own speed and I think he was ahead of me. After the Col was the last climb of any substance, supposedly, to Bellevue. It was still a 2,400 foot climb on super tired legs so it felt substantial.

However after that punishing climb, it was downhill to Les Houches. From Les Houches it is definitely flat except for one relatively tiny hill in town. It was starting to get warm as the sun broke through after noon and the streets got steamy. But there was supposedly only 8k to go and that was it. I was around 38 hours or so into the race, and starting to do the math that I could finish in under 40 hours. Pre-race the app used for timing by the race predicted a finish time of 38:58 but I knew I’d be over that after doing the math in my head.

Leaving Les Houches aid station to a lot of cheering bystanders I started to walk fast, at least so I thought. For the record that last 5 miles took 80 minutes or 16 minute mile pace. That is a decent walking pace after 38 hours and 30,920 feet of elevation gain and almost two full overnights. I was leaning to one side and I couldn’t really help it, and my lower back was hurting and I was slightly bent forward. But on the short stretch of road we were on, cars were honking, people were cheering, and it was nice.

Eventually the course crossed the river into Chamonix, and we had to negotiate a gravel path a couple miles to get to the bridge we had to use to cross the river near the finish. I was trying to trot as best I could, and a few of the younger guys around me would match my pace and stay ahead of me, probably out of pride so as to not be beaten by a hunched over old man. I started to swear out loud some, wondering where in the actual fuck the finish line really was, and when we would get there. Finally I turned onto a road, and there was a guy directing runners to the finish about a kilometer before the actual finish line. He said to me “this is your time, enjoy the crowd before the finish sir” and I did. The finish of these races is through town, through narrow streets that are lined with businesses and bars and restaurants, and people would call out your name and cheer loudly and clap and jingle cowbells. I must admit it took some effort to not start to tear up, after all of the pain and tiredness and mental stress you put yourself through for so many hours finishing a race like this is such a huge relief. The wife caught me right before the finish, and in her usual enthusiastic style ran me to the finish with enough arm waving and hooting and hollering for the entire race. Rather than get annoyed like I usually do, I celebrated with her and smiled as best I could as the crowd responded to her and started making more noise themselves.

Crossing the finish line is great, because you can stop your watch and stop running. UTMB has to be one of the best finish lines anywhere, with its level of excitement and enthusiasm unlike anything else out there. I am so glad I toughed it out and finished this race, because I think at my age I don’t really want to do any more long races this hard any more.

Aftermath: you are given a beer and a hot dog or some other food if you want it. I had waited 2 months for the beer so I drank it easily. I surprisingly was able to eat solid or semi-solid food throughout the entire race, even being able to keep gels down. I had a couple times where my stomach felt upset, but the first time I took a ginger capsule and a Gaviscon, and the second time another Gaviscon. This is the first time I have carried Gaviscon, and it worked great to end the sour stomach feeling. I actually read about it in the official race medical training that they make you watch, bonus for doing the homework.

I also did not change any clothing except throwing on a long sleeve shirt right over my short sleeve shirt. I had no blisters anywhere, no chaffing to speak of, just some soreness on the bottoms of my feet from the repetitive abuse of the time on my feet, which is to be expected.
I am not sure what I could have done differently to make anything feel better, it’s likely that all of the long training runs in the heat and humidity really helped toughen up my skin. I did retie my shoes once because my big toes were hitting the end of the shoes too much on the downhills, and then the laces started digging in on top of my foot more above the tongue, but the tongue on my shoes is also kind of thin and a weak point on otherwise great shoes.

[chassis]

Congratulations! Wow.

[chassis]

2 mile run, longest in 8 years.

25 minutes (slow!)
141HR

Focused on footstrike and smooth mechanics. Perfect day in the mid-60s and partly cloudy with light breezes.

Hips are fatigued; I wouldn't call them sore. I need to resist the temptation to run often, to allow my hips to recover. Running feels good; at the same time, I want to avoid re-injury.

[chassis]

2 miles, 154HR, approx 10.5 minutes/mile pace. Another good rehab run in the books. I want to stabilize at 2 miles per run 2-3 times per week. Then decide if I want to go faster, farther, or both.

[chassis]

2 mile run, felt good. The rehab runs are going well.

Focused on clean form: mid-forefoot strike, no pronation, head and shoulders slightly forward, no overstriding.

I picked up the cadence a little to see what it feels like - OK but need more data.

148HR avg
25 minutes (slow!)

Nice time of year to run mid-morning.

[chassis]

2 miles, good run. I wanted to run 2.5 miles but was running a course that took me into full sun for a while, on a day much warmer and more humid than I expected. I am traveling and didn't pay close attention to the weather. I walked about 0.5 miles because I was feeling overheated. The 2 miles I did run were mostly shaded and enjoyable!

Still taking things easy. I am at my years-long time mileage of 2 miles per run, once or twice per week. I want to go to 2.5 or 3 miles per run. We will see!

[chassis]

2 miles, good run.

162HR

[chassis]

2 miles, nice run. Cold hands in the morning but warmed up mid-run. Autumn is here!

[chassis]

2 miles, good run.

Foot placement is starting to feel natural. Mid-forefoot strike with neutral pronation and pressure distributed evenly across the metatarsus. Hoping to increase cadence and speed but too early for this.

[chassis]

2.5 miles, felt good. 155HR. Form is getting smoother and feels more natural.

[chassis]

2.5 miles, felt good. 156HR. Low 40sF with full sun, perfect running weather.

[chassis]

2.5 miles, 166HR good run. 50F and sunny with light breeze, perfect running weather!

New shoes have been needed for a while. I will get the latest NB 1080v14 in a few weeks. v14 will be my 3rd or 4th pair of 1080s, I like them.

[UncleWede]

Covered 4 in about 28 mintues last night. 170 AHR according to Fitbit, a bit high for me. I've been wearing some minimalist flat leather penny loafers with a grounding pin for the past 4-5 weeks. Last night in pitched running shoes, both heels were a bit sore at the end.