US MSRP for US Delivery PLUS Military Pricing

[emm3tt]

Originally Posted by Cybersavage

Thank you madam for your input.

This is what the Honda configurator has for a loaded 2008 Accord Coupe:

Base MSRP*:$30,510 Destination & Handling:$635 MSRP including selected accessories: $36,415Selected Accessories (installation costs not included): Auto Day/Night Mirror with Compass $299 Back-up Sensors $499 19" PDS-10 HFP Alloy Wheel Painted Finish $2,803 Trunk Tray $135 Splash Guards $99 Car Cover $250 All-Season Floor Mats $139 Body Side Molding $209 Full Nose Mask $165 Moonroof Visor $125 Rear Bumper Applique $69 Interior Illumination $109 Front Under Spoiler $369

I'd guess that "loaded" has a very different meaning to you and I.

Cheers,

Cs

Who honestly would really order all those crappy accessories? :iono:

[SapphireBlackG01]

Thank you for missing every single one of my points, and telling me nothing that I don't already know. :wink:

Originally Posted by MPower

Your opinion, but I would rather have the S40. But that is besides the point, no one here is arguing that the A3 is reasonably priced. Quite the contrary which is probably why the A3 does not go flying off dealer lots.

The A3 probably isn't flying off dealer lots because it's a wagon. Premium/luxury wagons and hatches don't sell especially well here. Although Audi's US Sales are pretty disappointing in general, so I don't know how much of the blame is squarely the A3's. A non-premium example of the same trend: Dodge Magnum is getting axed, despite being almost identical to the Charger sedan, and arguably better-looking.

I wasn't asking whether you preferred the A3 or the S40, because I really don't care. I was saying the A3 is better built, and while you are free to argue otherwise, you would be delusional. They are not built to the same standards. You're still free to choose the one you like, just as I'm free to choose between a 135i and a 350Z - but that doesn't make the two cars directly competitive.

I don't see many people cross-shopping the S40 and the 128i in the future, but that's just my opinion. An S60 is closer in price than the S40. An Accord can cost as much as an A4, but the Accord is inevitably a class below the A4. I feel the same about the S40.

Originally Posted by MPower

I can't have an opinion? What is this? The Stalin campaign for 1addicts?

Saying that everyone agrees that the 1er won't be a success like that guy did, is NOT simply having an opinion... but it is pretentious, and it is taking away mine!

Originally Posted by MPower

Did you read the post? I am not questioning your judgement. I am saying that (keeping in mind that my statement was more of a point at other members) to say that the badge justifies a premium is absurd. The badge carries a certain expectation but if the model does not meet that expectation, it will fail regardless of the badge.

I never said the badge justifies a premium for no good reason. But I do agree that the badge carries an expectation, and I am saying that the 1-Series definitely meets all reasonable expectations, and is priced accordingly. It is a premium product, with more than acceptable performance, and an entry-level price. Where is the issue here? I seriously don't get it.

None of the 1er's competitors can match its premium build quality with the exception of the Audi A3, which we've already agreed is overpriced given it's powertrain and platform. The 1er doesn't have the same problem, and it is priced to reflect that, but still within a reasonable percentage of the prices of it's competitors. Again, it's a little more expensive, but with very good reasons, not the least of which is comfort and quality. So again - where's the problem? Better yet, don't answer, because if you still have problems with the pricing you are A) crazy, and B) shit out of luck.

A MINI Cooper S Clubman starts at $24k... how much lower should the 128i go? Seriously, there's a $4k difference there, just as much of a difference as between the 1er and the 3er. I'd say that's fair, and that the 1er slots nicely into the lineup.

A base S40 T5 with AWD and that miserable turbo inline five goes for $30k... that in and of itself is enough to convince me that the RWD 128i (with more horsepower from a way better engine) is a bargain at $28k. And it's lighter and better to drive than that same S40 too!

Originally Posted by MPower

BTW, who ever renamed the thread to exclude the destination charge clearly has some sort of agenda. Lame effort indeed... it is not like the destination charge automatically disappears.

Uh, MSRP does not include a destination charge. Including it in the MSRP quote would be inaccurate.

[n54_335]

[quote=xxpaintmepunkxx;37548]
A MINI Cooper S Clubman starts at $24k... how much lower should the 128i go? Seriously, there's a $4k difference there, just as much of a difference as between the 1er and the 3er. I'd say that's fair, and that the 1er slots nicely into the lineup.quote]

I wouldnt go as far to say that, Im not sure on the price of the Mini Clubman(non-s), but i think for your argument to be valid you should use the Non-S clubman price. As you are comparing a top of the line model(Mini club-S) to a base model (the 128i and 328i, not the 135i and 335i). So probably more like a 7k difference between respective mini clubman and 128i models. And a 10k difference between Mini Club-S and 135i.


If you didnt use this logic it would be like comparing the 135i(34,900) to the 328i(32,400) = a $2,500 increase from 3-series to 1-series.

[SapphireBlackG01]

[quote=black135i;37549]

Originally Posted by xxpaintmepunkxx

A MINI Cooper S Clubman starts at $24k... how much lower should the 128i go? Seriously, there's a $4k difference there, just as much of a difference as between the 1er and the 3er. I'd say that's fair, and that the 1er slots nicely into the lineup.quote]

I wouldnt go as far to say that, Im not sure on the price of the Mini Clubman(non-s), but i think for your argument to be valid you should use the Non-S clubman price. As you are comparing a top of the line model(Mini club-S) to a base model (the 128i and 328i, not the 135i and 335i). So probably more like a 7k difference between respective mini clubman and 128i models. And a 10k difference between Mini Club-S and 135i.


If you didnt use this logic it would be like comparing the 135i(34,900) to the 328i(32,400) = a $2,500 increase from 3-series to 1-series.

No, because the 128i and the 328i use the same engine.

The base MINI Cooper engine is NOWHERE near as powerful. A fairer comparison would be the turbo S motor, which yields more comparable performance to the engine in the 128/328 given the MINI's lighter weight.

Regardless of performance, a MINI now has a base price just $4k cheaper than the base price of the cheapest BMW. That's completely unheard of until now, and dare I say, would have been considered vaguely ridiculous a couple years ago. The 128i couldn't be priced much lower without stepping on MINI's toes, especially given than the MINI JCW kits will push the prices well into BMW territory.

[Robert]

People who say it's better to buy a 335i over a 135i are people who were hoping to get a BMW badge at bargain instead of appreciating the qualities of the 1 series. The mentality is since I am spending 40k large I might as well shell out the extra 4.5k and get a 3 series. Keep this in mind you are still paying 40k plus another 4.5k to 5k for a grand total for 45k+. The 335i sedan may provide a better bargain but it's a sedan. Apples to apples please.

Like other threads have shown 135i is a slightly lighter, faster and nimbler car than the 335i coupe. With an ECU mod and exhaust you can hang with a new M5 or M3 up to 120-130 before they start pulling away. A new M5 will run 85-90k and M3 will likely be around 70-75k out the door. At 41-42k the 135i is still a great bargain to me.
(Check out some videos from e90post http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95657)

People on Autoblog are hilarious, comparing the G8 to the 135i. I realize the G8 is a bargain but check out its 0-60 with a 6.0liter V8:

"Despite having to use our left hand to shift, we were able to crack off a 5.3-second burst to 60 mph and blow through the quarter-mile in just 14.1 seconds." - Edmunds.

That car has to be pretty darn heavy with that much power and only achieve a 5.3. I am going to remain objective until I read a comparison test but there is no way I will buy a GM. Not until they stop offering heavy incentive on their new cars. Their cars will depreciate like brick. Why buy used when I can get a new one from manufacturer at a great price. I would also love to see the face of a G8 owner see my stock 135i edge out on a on ramp. Once AA or Vishnu is in then its bye bye.

The real competitors with 1's price range are g37, sti, evo, elise, the m coupe, TL-S, Audi TT, and Merc 350.

[herro]

Originally Posted by xxpaintmepunkxx

The A3 probably isn't flying off dealer lots because it's a wagon. Premium/luxury wagons and hatches don't sell especially well here. Although Audi's US Sales are pretty disappointing in general, so I don't know how much of the blame is squarely the A3's. A non-premium example of the same trend: Dodge Magnum is getting axed, despite being almost identical to the Charger sedan, and arguably better-looking.

Whoa, whoa - while I agree with some of your points; you're way off-base with the Audi comment. They've been posting year-over-year sales increases every quarter for quite a while... I know we all love our Bimmers, but give credit where credit's due - Audi's been doing several things right and their recent sales numbers and rapid wordwide growth/increase in exposure/model lineup is a result of that.

We can only hope our competition does this well - keeps BMW on their toes and encourages them to produce even better products.

Also, regarding the pricing of the 135i, to the enthusiast and the educated (90% of those on this board); it's not too hard to justify the price. Like you said, for those in the know, the 1-series is not overpriced. Unfortuneatly, the only opinion that really matters is those of the general population - go ahead, ask people outside of the automobile-enthusiast community what they think of the 1-series and its pricepoint (and focus on BMW's 'target' group for the 1; young up-and-comers, college grads, etc. - to them, the car itself is almost as important as the 'image' it projects... driving a "lowly" 1-series for 36k is def. not their first option)

[SapphireBlackG01]

Originally Posted by muffinman

Whoa, whoa - while I agree with some of your points; you're way off-base with the Audi comment. They've been posting year-over-year sales increases every quarter for quite a while... I know we all love our Bimmers, but give credit where credit's due - Audi's been doing several things right and their recent sales numbers and rapid wordwide growth/increase in exposure/model lineup is a result of that.

Audi's US Sales *are* disappointing in light of their global sales. They produce sales numbers toe to toe with Mercedes and BMW in many parts of the world. But not here. If you can provide me with numbers that prove otherwise, I'll gladly retract my statement.

Oddly, BMW apparently considers Lexus to be greater competition. Whatever. I have nothing but admiration for Audi.

Originally Posted by muffinman

Also, regarding the pricing of the 135i, to the enthusiast and the educated (90% of those on this board); it's not too hard to justify the price. Like you said, for those in the know, the 1-series is not overpriced. Unfortuneatly, the only opinion that really matters is those of the general population - go ahead, ask people outside of the automobile-enthusiast community what they think of the 1-series and its pricepoint (and focus on BMW's 'target' group for the 1; young up-and-comers, college grads, etc. - to them, the car itself is almost as important as the 'image' it projects... driving a "lowly" 1-series for 36k is def. not their first option)

And here I thought BMW's "target" group was... anyone willing to pay for the car, haha.

I don't know. BMW is marketing the 1er as the new 2002. College grads don't remember the 2002 unless they are... enthusiasts. And if they aren't enthusiasts, but are college grads... then they're "well-educated" and will realize the bargain the 128i presents.

Sorry, but I don't think Autoblog commenters are anything even remotely representative of the average buyer of a BMW. Autoblog commenters strike me as a bunch of stupid kids stirring shit up and being back-seat drivers. The vast majority of people I know who can afford BMWs do not spend time trolling Autoblog's comment section. They're busy working hard and playing hard.

[Fast Kiwi]

this is kinda getting a little off topic dont you all think..

The pricing is what it is..

[Imola.ZHP]

What happened to this thread?

How about taking the VS posts to new threads?

And to those that are greatly dissappointed and now going to buy a Honda Civic, or something else... GOODBYE! That means those of us waiting for the hype to wear off wont have to wait longer to start striking deals on the 1er...

[investor27]

Let's get back to the topic. So does the 135i come with an OIL COOLER or is that extra?

[ZweierCoupe]

Back in July I wrote:

<"This past week the $/€ rate went as high as 1.385. At that rate BMW workers in Germany pay $35450 before the 19% tax is applied.">

In the meantime, the conversion rate has already hit 1.475, so the price is now less than what BMW employees pay, before the additional 19% German tax is applied. Getting to pay even less than those who design, develop, or build these cars is certainly a great bargain.

My low estimate for the 135i was a price of $35590 plus destination charge, so I'm rather surprised the price cited in here (assuming this is official information) is so low. Practically speaking, however, virtually nobody will actually be getting it for less than $36K because there are always a few additional options that somebody who'll be ordering it will still want to add no later than a few days before it goes into production. And those who want to buy one straight off the lot will of course pay a lot more since dealers won't likely be getting any stripped down (i.e. no options) versions. Expect the models being shown off inside the showrooms to all go for over $40K.

[bimmernet]

Since everyone's gone to bed and I'm still up here on the left coast after falling asleep too early last night, I'm going to put down a few random things without the pleasure of someone to argue the points.

1.) The 135i price is virtually exactly as predicted or leaked or expected by most of us who have owned BMW's; mid-$30's (with the List Base Price typically not quoted to include it Destination) at $34,900. Yes or no? I mean how much closer to the "mid-$30's" (which suggests $35,000 +/- to me) does it need to be to have met the predictions that almost everyone on this board embraced since the first announcements?

2.) The 135i is a Coupe (not a Sedan) and it’s a Twin Turbo 135i so compare to a 335i (not a 328i Sedan but the 2007 335i Coupe which has a List Base Price at $40.800 ( not including Destination per Edmonds.com). That puts the difference at $5,900 not $3,000 or even less than I’ve seen some people quote on this forum. And since we are talking 2007 price it’s possible BMW could raise the price in January as they have been known to do, which could spread the gap even more by the time the Spring roll-out for the 135i happens. The option prices are about the same as the 335i Coupe except the Premium Package is $750 more and the Sport Package is $100 less. Part of $750 difference for the Premium Package is due to the fact the 335i has 8 Way Power Front Driver and Passenger Seats Standard while the 135i has Manual Front Seat Adjustment as Standard. If you get the Power Front Seats separately in the 135i you’ll pay $995 though. Also, one offset is the 335i comes with the 7.1 Surround Sound as Standard whereas the 135i asks for $875 for the Premium Audio system.

3.) I was an Internet Sales Manager for Audi store up through early 2007 and the reason the A3’s don’t “fly off the lots” is two fold. Firstly they are overpriced because, among other things, the Chairman of Volkswagen AG negotiated a 28 hour work week where the A3’s are built along with some scary high priced benefits. So even at the high prices Audi asks for the A3’s here in the US, we were told by Audi US sales representatives that Audi loses $1,000 per copy on each one sold in the US. Why would they do it? Good question that wasn’t answered however, we were told that we would not see as many in 2008 and that the likelihood of better lease rates was nil because of the above silliness. Which brings up the second reason they don’t “fly off’. The sales and lease incentives were ridiculous to the point that I could put someone in an A4 2.0T for $100-$200 less per month than an A3 2.0T for a car that was thousands higher at MSRP! Stupid but true. Which begs the question why sell them in the US at all? Again, no complete answers but a partial reply was that it was a “Halo” car and allowed Audi to sell a car that stickered in base trim for significantly less than any BMW and showed off the DSG transmission technology which no other Audi except the TT offered. It was always amusing to me responding to another speculation about the A3 being a “Wagon” and therefore not popular. Yes, that was some people’s perception who came on the lot unfamiliar to it, but to those that liked the A3, it was a “Hot Hatch”. I guess it’s a perception thing, huh?

4.) I read in Automotive News (an industry news journal I got since I was in the business – I was also a BMW Internet Sales manager from 2003 until Fall 2006) last week that BMW has set very low margins on the 1 Series. For those gleefully expecting to grind your Dealership, oh excuse me, “Stealership” salesperson down $3,500 I’d set my sights a little lower. My guess is the really inviting Lease rates and aggressive near invoice pricing won’t happen for a year or so unless everybody wises up and runs away to buy their Honda Accord Coupe (like my father-in-law; the 80 year-old retired doctor drives), WRX (like half my eldest daughter’s high school boy friends and other male acquaintances drove), EVO (like the other half drove), the Volvo (like my neighbor the Spinster nurse of 55 drives), etc.

BTW: For those who wish to be as dramatic as my 14 year old daughter, please if you are going away, forever, to buy your ________ (fill-in the true pinnacle of superior performance, quality and value vehicle of choice; Honda, Volvo, Infiniti, Subaru, Mitsubishi, etc.) The rest of us are committed to foolishly spend far too much (or is it exactly what we expected?), on the 1 Series, and don’t much care if this is your last…gasp…sniffle…sniffle…teary good-bye post.
Just go already.

Leave us to obsessively contemplate what we believe will be a kick-ass little German Coupe that we’d rather have than two of anything else above.
Thanks.
:roundel:

[imported_MPower]

Originally Posted by xxpaintmepunkxx

Saying that everyone agrees that the 1er won't be a success like that guy did, is NOT simply having an opinion... but it is pretentious, and it is taking away mine!

Here is what I said:

Originally Posted by MPower

But I think it is fair to say that the car wont be the runaway success that most everyone expected it to be when it was first announced.

Clearly, I disagree with "most everyone" (that includes you). Again, I guess I am not allowed to have an opinion...

Originally Posted by xxpaintmepunkxx

I never said the badge justifies a premium for no good reason. But I do agree that the badge carries an expectation, and I am saying that the 1-Series definitely meets all reasonable expectations, and is priced accordingly. It is a premium product, with more than acceptable performance, and an entry-level price. Where is the issue here? I seriously don't get it.

You have, what? Seen one in person, maybe sat in one? And already you can tell that the car is perfect. Right...

Back in reality, nothing is decided (at least in my book) on the 1 Series. You can go on trumping your horn about how its a premium product, and so on, but it is going to take a lot more than looking at one to determine quality, reliability, the driving experience, etc.

Again, if you compare the 135i to cars like the Infiniti G35/7, the 1er holds up well but not enough to make it the Godsend of all motordum. The Infiniti still is a premium product that comes equipped with a lot of performance parts that 1addicts would die for (LSD to name one). And if all you really want in a car is performance and a hint of practicality, the Evo and STi will still be the better option.

The problem with the 1 Series pricing is that, in my opinion, the 3 Series is still the much better buy (speaking purely in terms of finances). Especially when the lease deals on the 335i sedan are so good, it makes little sense to wait around for a 135i that is going to be no cheaper out the door than the 335i.

Originally Posted by xxpaintmepunkxx

Better yet, don't answer, because if you still have problems with the pricing you are A) crazy, and B) shit out of luck.

Personal attacks already? What are we, four years old all over again?

Let's get this straight, though: You criticize me for stating an opinion and claiming that I am "eliminating" yours (which, clearly, I did nothing more than state my own opinion). Then you state an opinion and deem anyone you disagrees with you "crazy". Hypocritical much?

[Crowley]

My thoughts ..... as everyone has said .. base price should not be a suprise ... I think part of the suprise came from once you add up the cost of options and how quickly it became apparent that you were no longer at 35k but could get to low - mid 40's pretty quick. Again ... Since this is the series 1 forum, there are probably a lot of owners that this would have been their first BMW (myself included) and was hoping that it would come in at low 30's ...

I also think we all have to remember ... the base 1 series would be the 128 which does come in just under 30k .. I would consider the 135 more of a (currently) top of the line 1 series (sort of like the mustang and its upgrades to cobra ... you will spend a lot more money from a v6 or even GT up to the Cobra) ...

For me it will come down to test drive ... can it sway me away from my current car with my current payments? I would have liked to see things like power seats etc standards and maybe a little more flexability on the options, but for me none of this is a deal breaker.

I am in my upper 30's have small children so the coupe vs sedan isn't a factor as by the time they are larger, I'll have something more appropriate (and who knows may still have the BMW at that time too) ..

Again .. on the 335 vs 135 comparison ... it is hard to compare because of what may be standard vs option on both ... but I would be hard not to get a 335 (if I couldn't get for invoice) for under 45k (not alot of premium) so for me there would still be a pretty good difference in price ..

Crowley

[larryn]

Originally Posted by MPower

The problem with the 1 Series pricing is that, in my opinion, the 3 Series is still the much better buy (speaking purely in terms of finances). Especially when the lease deals on the 335i sedan are so good, it makes little sense to wait around for a 135i that is going to be no cheaper out the door than the 335i.

I have a e90 330i sedan. I don't think the sedan is a valid comparison to the 135i coupe. You need to compare apples to apples, coupe to coupe. I'm in the market for a coupe, that's why I'm here looking at the 135i. I was initially looking at the e92 335i coupe as a replacement to my sedan. Comparing sedans to coupes and saying one is more economical than the other is fruitless and is very much a moot point, due to the obvious practical versus sportier factor.

I want something smaller and more powerful than my e90 330i, with two doors, yet retain rear seating. I also want some of the niceties that I'm used to. I see no other new car as a viable option in this price range.

I view the 135i as slightly better, performance wise than the 335i coupe, for quite a bit less cost, and it meets my very few checklist items. It will not run circles around a 335i, but remember the 335i coupe is the pinnacle right now. Having this be a bit better, for less money is the cherry on the sundae for me.

I do track my cars, and I will replace the wheels/tires, add sways, coilovers, and camber plates, so all this rubbish understeer talk does not apply to me either.

[SapphireBlackG01]

Originally Posted by MPower

Hypocritical much?

Yuuupp.

Take it all with a grain of salt, because everything in this thread aside from prices is pure conjecture.

It wasn't meant to be a personal attack, but basically to point out that... if you disagree with the price, it's the one thing you can't argue against. It ain't gonna change. Sorry.

And since you're busy proclaiming your opinion that 1er won't be a sales success, I will go ahead and opine otherwise, and here's why.

128i Coupe MSRP - $28,600
328i Coupe MSRP - $35,300

That's a difference of $6,700.

And I'm still of the "opinion" that yours is crazy, haha.

[BForbes]

Originally Posted by bimmernet

Since everyone's gone to bed and I'm still up here on the left coast after falling asleep too early last night, I'm going to put down a few random things without the pleasure of someone to argue the points.

1.) The 135i price is virtually exactly as predicted or leaked or expected by most of us who have owned BMW's; mid-$30's (with the List Base Price typically not quoted to include it Destination) at $34,900. Yes or no? I mean how much closer to the "mid-$30's" (which suggests $35,000 +/- to me) does it need to be to have met the predictions that almost everyone on this board embraced since the first announcements?

2.) The 135i is a Coupe (not a Sedan) and it’s a Twin Turbo 135i so compare to a 335i (not a 328i Sedan but the 2007 335i Coupe which has a List Base Price at $40.800 ( not including Destination per Edmonds.com). That puts the difference at $5,900 not $3,000 or even less than I’ve seen some people quote on this forum. And since we are talking 2007 price it’s possible BMW could raise the price in January as they have been known to do, which could spread the gap even more by the time the Spring roll-out for the 135i happens. The option prices are about the same as the 335i Coupe except the Premium Package is $750 more and the Sport Package is $100 less. Part of $750 difference for the Premium Package is due to the fact the 335i has 8 Way Power Front Driver and Passenger Seats Standard while the 135i has Manual Front Seat Adjustment as Standard. If you get the Power Front Seats separately in the 135i you’ll pay $995 though. Also, one offset is the 335i comes with the 7.1 Surround Sound as Standard whereas the 135i asks for $875 for the Premium Audio system.

3.) I was an Internet Sales Manager for Audi store up through early 2007 and the reason the A3’s don’t “fly off the lots” is two fold. Firstly they are overpriced because, among other things, the Chairman of Volkswagen AG negotiated a 28 hour work week where the A3’s are built along with some scary high priced benefits. So even at the high prices Audi asks for the A3’s here in the US, we were told by Audi US sales representatives that Audi loses $1,000 per copy on each one sold in the US. Why would they do it? Good question that wasn’t answered however, we were told that we would not see as many in 2008 and that the likelihood of better lease rates was nil because of the above silliness. Which brings up the second reason they don’t “fly off’. The sales and lease incentives were ridiculous to the point that I could put someone in an A4 2.0T for $100-$200 less per month than an A3 2.0T for a car that was thousands higher at MSRP! Stupid but true. Which begs the question why sell them in the US at all? Again, no complete answers but a partial reply was that it was a “Halo” car and allowed Audi to sell a car that stickered in base trim for significantly less than any BMW and showed off the DSG transmission technology which no other Audi except the TT offered. It was always amusing to me responding to another speculation about the A3 being a “Wagon” and therefore not popular. Yes, that was some people’s perception who came on the lot unfamiliar to it, but to those that liked the A3, it was a “Hot Hatch”. I guess it’s a perception thing, huh?

4.) I read in Automotive News (an industry news journal I got since I was in the business – I was also a BMW Internet Sales manager from 2003 until Fall 2006) last week that BMW has set very low margins on the 1 Series. For those gleefully expecting to grind your Dealership, oh excuse me, “Stealership” salesperson down $3,500 I’d set my sights a little lower. My guess is the really inviting Lease rates and aggressive near invoice pricing won’t happen for a year or so unless everybody wises up and runs away to buy their Honda Accord Coupe (like my father-in-law; the 80 year-old retired doctor drives), WRX (like half my eldest daughter’s high school boy friends and other male acquaintances drove), EVO (like the other half drove), the Volvo (like my neighbor the Spinster nurse of 55 drives), etc.

BTW: For those who wish to be as dramatic as my 14 year old daughter, please if you are going away, forever, to buy your ________ (fill-in the true pinnacle of superior performance, quality and value vehicle of choice; Honda, Volvo, Infiniti, Subaru, Mitsubishi, etc.) The rest of us are committed to foolishly spend far too much (or is it exactly what we expected?), on the 1 Series, and don’t much care if this is your last…gasp…sniffle…sniffle…teary good-bye post.
Just go already.

Leave us to obsessively contemplate what we believe will be a kick-ass little German Coupe that we’d rather have than two of anything else above.
Thanks.
:roundel:

Wow, this is THE GREATEST post EVER in regards to pricing.

[joelk]

Originally Posted by bimmernet

Since everyone's gone to bed and I'm still up here on the left coast after falling asleep too early last night, I'm going to put down a few random things without the pleasure of someone to argue the points.

1.) The 135i price is virtually exactly as predicted or leaked or expected by most of us who have owned BMW's; mid-$30's (with the List Base Price typically not quoted to include it Destination) at $34,900. Yes or no? I mean how much closer to the "mid-$30's" (which suggests $35,000 +/- to me) does it need to be to have met the predictions that almost everyone on this board embraced since the first announcements?

2.) The 135i is a Coupe (not a Sedan) and it’s a Twin Turbo 135i so compare to a 335i (not a 328i Sedan but the 2007 335i Coupe which has a List Base Price at $40.800 ( not including Destination per Edmonds.com). That puts the difference at $5,900 not $3,000 or even less than I’ve seen some people quote on this forum. And since we are talking 2007 price it’s possible BMW could raise the price in January as they have been known to do, which could spread the gap even more by the time the Spring roll-out for the 135i happens. The option prices are about the same as the 335i Coupe except the Premium Package is $750 more and the Sport Package is $100 less. Part of $750 difference for the Premium Package is due to the fact the 335i has 8 Way Power Front Driver and Passenger Seats Standard while the 135i has Manual Front Seat Adjustment as Standard. If you get the Power Front Seats separately in the 135i you’ll pay $995 though. Also, one offset is the 335i comes with the 7.1 Surround Sound as Standard whereas the 135i asks for $875 for the Premium Audio system.

3.) I was an Internet Sales Manager for Audi store up through early 2007 and the reason the A3’s don’t “fly off the lots” is two fold. Firstly they are overpriced because, among other things, the Chairman of Volkswagen AG negotiated a 28 hour work week where the A3’s are built along with some scary high priced benefits. So even at the high prices Audi asks for the A3’s here in the US, we were told by Audi US sales representatives that Audi loses $1,000 per copy on each one sold in the US. Why would they do it? Good question that wasn’t answered however, we were told that we would not see as many in 2008 and that the likelihood of better lease rates was nil because of the above silliness. Which brings up the second reason they don’t “fly off’. The sales and lease incentives were ridiculous to the point that I could put someone in an A4 2.0T for $100-$200 less per month than an A3 2.0T for a car that was thousands higher at MSRP! Stupid but true. Which begs the question why sell them in the US at all? Again, no complete answers but a partial reply was that it was a “Halo” car and allowed Audi to sell a car that stickered in base trim for significantly less than any BMW and showed off the DSG transmission technology which no other Audi except the TT offered. It was always amusing to me responding to another speculation about the A3 being a “Wagon” and therefore not popular. Yes, that was some people’s perception who came on the lot unfamiliar to it, but to those that liked the A3, it was a “Hot Hatch”. I guess it’s a perception thing, huh?

4.) I read in Automotive News (an industry news journal I got since I was in the business – I was also a BMW Internet Sales manager from 2003 until Fall 2006) last week that BMW has set very low margins on the 1 Series. For those gleefully expecting to grind your Dealership, oh excuse me, “Stealership” salesperson down $3,500 I’d set my sights a little lower. My guess is the really inviting Lease rates and aggressive near invoice pricing won’t happen for a year or so unless everybody wises up and runs away to buy their Honda Accord Coupe (like my father-in-law; the 80 year-old retired doctor drives), WRX (like half my eldest daughter’s high school boy friends and other male acquaintances drove), EVO (like the other half drove), the Volvo (like my neighbor the Spinster nurse of 55 drives), etc.

BTW: For those who wish to be as dramatic as my 14 year old daughter, please if you are going away, forever, to buy your ________ (fill-in the true pinnacle of superior performance, quality and value vehicle of choice; Honda, Volvo, Infiniti, Subaru, Mitsubishi, etc.) The rest of us are committed to foolishly spend far too much (or is it exactly what we expected?), on the 1 Series, and don’t much care if this is your last…gasp…sniffle…sniffle…teary good-bye post.
Just go already.

Leave us to obsessively contemplate what we believe will be a kick-ass little German Coupe that we’d rather have than two of anything else above.
Thanks.
:roundel:

good stuff

[SapphireBlackG01]

Originally Posted by bimmernet

Since everyone's gone to bed and I'm still up here on the left coast after falling asleep too early last night, I'm going to put down a few random things without the pleasure of someone to argue the points.

1.) The 135i price is virtually exactly as predicted or leaked or expected by most of us who have owned BMW's; mid-$30's (with the List Base Price typically not quoted to include it Destination) at $34,900. Yes or no? I mean how much closer to the "mid-$30's" (which suggests $35,000 +/- to me) does it need to be to have met the predictions that almost everyone on this board embraced since the first announcements?

2.) The 135i is a Coupe (not a Sedan) and it’s a Twin Turbo 135i so compare to a 335i (not a 328i Sedan but the 2007 335i Coupe which has a List Base Price at $40.800 ( not including Destination per Edmonds.com). That puts the difference at $5,900 not $3,000 or even less than I’ve seen some people quote on this forum. And since we are talking 2007 price it’s possible BMW could raise the price in January as they have been known to do, which could spread the gap even more by the time the Spring roll-out for the 135i happens. The option prices are about the same as the 335i Coupe except the Premium Package is $750 more and the Sport Package is $100 less. Part of $750 difference for the Premium Package is due to the fact the 335i has 8 Way Power Front Driver and Passenger Seats Standard while the 135i has Manual Front Seat Adjustment as Standard. If you get the Power Front Seats separately in the 135i you’ll pay $995 though. Also, one offset is the 335i comes with the 7.1 Surround Sound as Standard whereas the 135i asks for $875 for the Premium Audio system.

3.) I was an Internet Sales Manager for Audi store up through early 2007 and the reason the A3’s don’t “fly off the lots” is two fold. Firstly they are overpriced because, among other things, the Chairman of Volkswagen AG negotiated a 28 hour work week where the A3’s are built along with some scary high priced benefits. So even at the high prices Audi asks for the A3’s here in the US, we were told by Audi US sales representatives that Audi loses $1,000 per copy on each one sold in the US. Why would they do it? Good question that wasn’t answered however, we were told that we would not see as many in 2008 and that the likelihood of better lease rates was nil because of the above silliness. Which brings up the second reason they don’t “fly off’. The sales and lease incentives were ridiculous to the point that I could put someone in an A4 2.0T for $100-$200 less per month than an A3 2.0T for a car that was thousands higher at MSRP! Stupid but true. Which begs the question why sell them in the US at all? Again, no complete answers but a partial reply was that it was a “Halo” car and allowed Audi to sell a car that stickered in base trim for significantly less than any BMW and showed off the DSG transmission technology which no other Audi except the TT offered. It was always amusing to me responding to another speculation about the A3 being a “Wagon” and therefore not popular. Yes, that was some people’s perception who came on the lot unfamiliar to it, but to those that liked the A3, it was a “Hot Hatch”. I guess it’s a perception thing, huh?

4.) I read in Automotive News (an industry news journal I got since I was in the business – I was also a BMW Internet Sales manager from 2003 until Fall 2006) last week that BMW has set very low margins on the 1 Series. For those gleefully expecting to grind your Dealership, oh excuse me, “Stealership” salesperson down $3,500 I’d set my sights a little lower. My guess is the really inviting Lease rates and aggressive near invoice pricing won’t happen for a year or so unless everybody wises up and runs away to buy their Honda Accord Coupe (like my father-in-law; the 80 year-old retired doctor drives), WRX (like half my eldest daughter’s high school boy friends and other male acquaintances drove), EVO (like the other half drove), the Volvo (like my neighbor the Spinster nurse of 55 drives), etc.

BTW: For those who wish to be as dramatic as my 14 year old daughter, please if you are going away, forever, to buy your ________ (fill-in the true pinnacle of superior performance, quality and value vehicle of choice; Honda, Volvo, Infiniti, Subaru, Mitsubishi, etc.) The rest of us are committed to foolishly spend far too much (or is it exactly what we expected?), on the 1 Series, and don’t much care if this is your last…gasp…sniffle…sniffle…teary good-bye post.
Just go already.

Leave us to obsessively contemplate what we believe will be a kick-ass little German Coupe that we’d rather have than two of anything else above.
Thanks.
:roundel:

Bravo! Bravo! Encore! :smile:

[Fast Kiwi]

Originally Posted by investor27

Let's get back to the topic. So does the 135i come with an OIL COOLER or is that extra?

extra.. under the sports pack you'll find..

[ibeam81]

Originally Posted by xxpaintmepunkxx

Bravo! Bravo! Encore! :smile:

Agreed. Bimmernet's post was most appreciated. Thanks!

[larryn]

Originally Posted by Fast kiwi

extra.. under the sports pack you'll find..

Please show me that one document that says that. I was looking for it for a while, but remember seeing something like that. Every other other document doesn't mention the oili cooler as only available as part of the sports package... I am getting the sports package anyway, but I sincerely hope you're wrong for those who won't opt for that package. I'm guess that document was mistaken, just like a lot of the earlier document's details.