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[blackbim14]

all things being equal (i.e tires)

4wd/awd>front wheel drive>rear wheel drive (Lsd>peg leg)

as far as driving in bad conditions is concerned. we have the absolute worst setup for driving in the snow. snow tires makes it better, a true lsd would make a big difference.

my bad weather driving plan is to keep the bmw in the garage and drive the 4wd beater truck, its been a great investment with all the snow we've been having in the northeast.

[IS+1]

Originally Posted by blackbim14

as far as driving in bad conditions is concerned. we have the absolute worst setup for driving in the snow.

But with proper snow tires and decent car control skills, this "absolute worst set-up" is actually quite capable in the snow, especially with the 1's short wheelbase and near 50/50 weight distribution.

[Tom K.]

FWIW, I just managed to negotiate my ice covered inclined driveway in my E91. Used MT 1st gear, feathered the throttle, DSC left full on and with (surprisingly) OEM Bridgestone EL42 All-season RFTs (no weight in the rear and tires set at 32/36).

The trick is smoothness.

Tom

[blackbim14]

Originally Posted by IS+1

But with proper snow tires and decent car control skills, this "absolute worst set-up" is actually quite capable in the snow, especially with the 1's short wheelbase and near 50/50 weight distribution.

that's why i said "all thing being equal", I'll take a awd or 4wd vehicle with snow tires in inclement weather over the 135i. There are limits to any car, that being said, for the other 300 days a year with dry roads I think we'd all take our bmw over the truck

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by blackbim14

as far as driving in bad conditions is concerned. we have the absolute worst setup for driving in the snow. snow tires makes it better, a true lsd would make a big difference.

I don't really agree with this. We could have it worse IF we did not have a near 50/50 weight distribution that we have with our 1er's.

I recently drove a new MB A-class hatch... what a joke that FWD car was in the snow. My 135i did MUCH better in deep snow than that thing!

So... yea... it could be worse!

Dackel

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by Kcyrusm

False.

"Dynamic Traction Control (DTC) is a sub-function of the Dynamic Stability Control (DSC) system that can be turned on and off. DTC has two major uses: to regulate traction and to enable sports-style driving while providing active stability control."

"If the front wheels are stuck in snow and cannot spin properly, this leads to slip on the rear wheels (when they spin faster than the front wheels, generally a sign that performance has been exceeded) and DSC acts to change engine output: the power needed for forward movement is reduced. Switching to DTC has a positive effect on this situation, as traction is improved without a loss of power."

When you hit the DTC button, you are turning ON dtc, which is dynamic traction control, which allows sports-style driving (more wheel spin, while still keeping stability control active).

My apologies, I was thinking of DSC...

[Duckles McGee]

Originally Posted by Kcyrusm

False.

"Dynamic Traction Control (DTC) is a sub-function of the Dynamic Stability Control (DSC) system that can be turned on and off. DTC has two major uses: to regulate traction and to enable sports-style driving while providing active stability control."

"If the front wheels are stuck in snow and cannot spin properly, this leads to slip on the rear wheels (when they spin faster than the front wheels, generally a sign that performance has been exceeded) and DSC acts to change engine output: the power needed for forward movement is reduced. Switching to DTC has a positive effect on this situation, as traction is improved without a loss of power."

When you hit the DTC button, you are turning ON dtc, which is dynamic traction control, which allows sports-style driving (more wheel spin, while still keeping stability control active).

This is all described in the manual... Where it even tells you when and what conditions to turn dtc on.

Op not sure what your tires are, but I have no issues with my Dunlop wintersports. The car is just as capable as my previous FWD with similar tires.

[blackbim14]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

I don't really agree with this. We could have it worse IF we did not have a near 50/50 weight distribution that we have with our 1er's.

I recently drove a new MB A-class hatch... what a joke that FWD car was in the snow. My 135i did MUCH better in deep snow than that thing!

So... yea... it could be worse!

Dackel

you're correct that the weight distribution and shortwheelbase is a positive. I was just trying to give a common sense answer to the reason that a car that just spins one rear wheel is not exactly a snowmobile. I love my car like the everyone else here and I am not trying to say that this a flaw in our cars....it's a sports coupe! I don't know how there could be much of an argument on this.

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by blackbim14

you're correct that the weight distribution and shortwheelbase is a positive. I was just trying to give a common sense answer to the reason that a car that just spins one rear wheel is not exactly a snowmobile. I love my car like the everyone else here and I am not trying to say that this a flaw in our cars....it's a sports coupe! I don't know how there could be much of an argument on this.

Yup, I agree with you 100%.

I think the problem the OP has is he does not have top tier snow tires. Dunlop SP's are not the greatest tire in the class. Hence the wheel spin.

Dackel

[jbenington86]

I can't say that I have had to deal with anything major this winter maybe 3"-4" of snow on the streets and one time when everything was solid ice on the streets. I have only been stuck one time and that was after all the salt melted the snow that was on my car. It created a nice rut made of ice that my tires were sitting in and all I had to do was pull the ice out from under my rear tires as much as possible. I'm still on stock all-season RFT with over 41K miles on them. Still got a little bit more life in them until they are at the wear bars.

[roo97ss]

Originally Posted by blackbim14

you're correct that the weight distribution and shortwheelbase is a positive. I was just trying to give a common sense answer to the reason that a car that just spins one rear wheel is not exactly a snowmobile. I love my car like the everyone else here and I am not trying to say that this a flaw in our cars....it's a sports coupe! I don't know how there could be much of an argument on this.

I agree with you. (except i call is a luxury sport coupe...as it's gone a bit soft for calling it a straight sports car)

Not sure what was worse, my mustangs and camaros with a 57/43 split or so and posi or the BMW with 50/50 and open diff.

It's far from the ideal car, i agree with that; however, as everyone knows technique makes a big difference in driving these cars.

Now our xi (which isn't as good as our quattro was) wearing snow tires is just plain awesome. Stomp it like an idiot and it goes, start to slide, power through it just like you're on dry ground. The difference between AWD and RWD in the snow is night and day (cars on equal tires of course)...

There is that test on tire rack and or car and driver where it takes like 100 ft vs 60 ft to stop with all seasons vs snow tires. That's reason enough to wear snows.

I grew up on lg RWD american sedans (chrysler 5th ave, grand marquis, town car) with studded rears, could get the car going, just didn't turn with a damn or stop all that well, though i guess they weren't that much better in the dry...

[Rawhide]

I've been pretty impressed with these continental DWS so for this year.

I live in a snowy climate, and I've never bought a set of winter tires - just all seasons. Somehow I manage to get along just fine.

[bogart]

I firmly believe that it is the driver, not the car or tires that causes the problem. I live in St. Louis, and we do not get as much snow as where I used to live, Syracuse, but we still get snow and definitely get ice.

I still have the stock RFT's and I have lost traction on countless occassions, but it doesn't bother me at all because I know how to drive. This car is my second RWD vehicle, before I had a C300 sport benz, and I think that RWD is far superior in the snow than FWD, but you have to know how to use it to your advantage. The problem with FWD in the snow is that the same wheels that power the car, steer the car, causing a plowing affect if you start to slide. This car is by far my favorite that I have ever driven, and I think it is excellent in all conditions.

AWD is another story, because it gives people the false sense of hope. I see more SUV's off the road than anything else, because they have AWD so people drive like idiots, but they also huge, wide tires that are the worst thing possible for snow and ice. If you ever watch the WRC, you will see that in snow they use very skinny rims and tires to sink in the snow and gain more traction.

I also recently got stuck in a hugh blizzard that bombarded the Chicago area, and drove in horrible conditions with no problem. I do not plan on getting snow tires, because I believe it is unneccessary. If I still lived in NY, I definitely would consider it, but probably still would go without them.

If you get stuck, try getting out with the DTC on and if that doesn't work hold down the DTC button for 3 seconds until you see the symbol show up on your display. This allows you to have more control of the throttle without the computer cutting your fuel or automatically braking different wheels to try to help. Also, "rock the car", by driving forward and then reversing to essentially plow the snow to give more running room for momentum. If you can even try to turn the wheel and then rock the car to give the tires another angle to work at.

If you can find a wide open parking lot, even if it has some poles, go there right after a snowfall and practice driving your car to get used to how it reacts. You can even use the poles as obstacles when you get better at driving. From experience, be ready to call someone incase you really do get stuck.

[blackbim14]

Originally Posted by bogart

I firmly believe that it is the driver, not the car or tires that causes the problem. I live in St. Louis, and we do not get as much snow as where I used to live, Syracuse, but we still get snow and definitely get ice.

I still have the stock RFT's and I have lost traction on countless occassions, but it doesn't bother me at all because I know how to drive. This car is my second RWD vehicle, before I had a C300 sport benz, and I think that RWD is far superior in the snow than FWD, but you have to know how to use it to your advantage. The problem with FWD in the snow is that the same wheels that power the car, steer the car, causing a plowing affect if you start to slide. This car is by far my favorite that I have ever driven, and I think it is excellent in all conditions.

AWD is another story, because it gives people the false sense of hope. I see more SUV's off the road than anything else, because they have AWD so people drive like idiots, but they also huge, wide tires that are the worst thing possible for snow and ice. If you ever watch the WRC, you will see that in snow they use very skinny rims and tires to sink in the snow and gain more traction.

I also recently got stuck in a hugh blizzard that bombarded the Chicago area, and drove in horrible conditions with no problem. I do not plan on getting snow tires, because I believe it is unneccessary. If I still lived in NY, I definitely would consider it, but probably still would go without them.

If you get stuck, try getting out with the DTC on and if that doesn't work hold down the DTC button for 3 seconds until you see the symbol show up on your display. This allows you to have more control of the throttle without the computer cutting your fuel or automatically braking different wheels to try to help. Also, "rock the car", by driving forward and then reversing to essentially plow the snow to give more running room for momentum. If you can even try to turn the wheel and then rock the car to give the tires another angle to work at.

If you can find a wide open parking lot, even if it has some poles, go there right after a snowfall and practice driving your car to get used to how it reacts. You can even use the poles as obstacles when you get better at driving. From experience, be ready to call someone incase you really do get stuck.

so you're saying that a good driver in a corvette would have an easier time driving in 18 inches of snow than a soccer mom in a suburban?

Also you state that you do not feel it is "the car or tires that cause the problem", but then you go on to state that SUV's have difficulty due to their "huge, wide tires that are the worst thing possible for snow and ice".
So which is it?

I agree a good driver has an advantage in any car, but the laws of physics still apply

[bogart]

Originally Posted by blackbim14

so you're saying that a good driver in a corvette would have an easier time driving in 18 inches of snow than a soccer mom in a suburban?

Also you state that you do not feel it is "the car or tires that cause the problem", but then you go on to state that SUV's have difficulty due to their "huge, wide tires that are the worst thing possible for snow and ice".
So which is it?

I agree a good driver has an advantage in any car, but the laws of physics still apply

Haha... maybe?! JK - but in all seriousness, I think the car is great in the snow and love it to death. Whatever tires y'all want to run is up to you, I'm just saying that it is possible with the stock RFT's, because I have done it. Maybe I have been lucky, maybe not. You are correct though, the laws of physics do still apply. If you hit ice or a ton of snow it doesn't matter what kind of tires or car you have.

[roo97ss]

Originally Posted by blackbim14

so you're saying that a good driver in a corvette would have an easier time driving in 18 inches of snow than a soccer mom in a suburban?

Also you state that you do not feel it is "the car or tires that cause the problem", but then you go on to state that SUV's have difficulty due to their "huge, wide tires that are the worst thing possible for snow and ice".
So which is it?

I agree a good driver has an advantage in any car, but the laws of physics still apply

only if you were rockin some 205 and 225 all seasons, then the vette would be awesome....those stock tires are too wide just like the suv.

Might also be worthwhile driving the tires smooth in the summer to increase contact patch, tread depth is so overrated.

Plus the moment we got a BMW we said goodbye to laws of physics, they don't apply to us....

[bogart]

Originally Posted by roo97ss

only if you were rockin some 205 and 225 all seasons, then the vette would be awesome....those stock tires are too wide just like the suv.

Might also be worthwhile driving the tires smooth in the summer to increase contact patch, tread depth is so overrated.

Plus the moment we got a BMW we said goodbye to laws of physics, they don't apply to us....

haha

[Lucky1]

Originally Posted by tristantumble

This is the first winter with my 1er, and even tough having winter tires (dunlop ds 2) have been great for city driving, whenever I park with some snow gatherd up, i still spin my wheel and come close to getting stuck.

Is this a rear wheel drive thing? I see front wheel drives pulling in and out of the same spots with ease. Or are the tires crap? Any winter tips would be appreciated.

Thanks,
TT

Four suggestions that when combined should get you going in nearly all cases (some have already been suggested individually, try them all together)

1) Leave a small snow shovel in your trunk (you can get one from Canadian tire). Clear the snow around your tires before you get in your car so that you can get initial traction from a start. Once you have momentum it is easier to move in the snow. That's true for any car.

2) Turn off DSC and DTC entirely. Yes I know this sounds crazy but I found both to be a hinderence, particularly in climbing hills but I'm sure the same is true in snow. Must be used in conjunction with the next step

3) Feather the throttle and clutch. Too much throttle and you'll just spin your wheels and turn the snow to slush and then it'll refreeze into ice. Keep the wheel as straight as possible.

4) Start in second gear if possible (if you aren't a manual I think it might be possible to do this with the step but I'm not 100% sure).

If you're really stuck laying some kitty litter down around the tires or wedging large strips of sandpaper under your tires will help but this shouldn't be necessary if you did step one.


If you're still getting stuck you need to trade your 1er in for a snowmobile. I don't know anything about the tires you have but I found that winter tires don't guarantee you won't spin at a start so keep that in mind when forming expectations.

[blackbim14]

Originally Posted by roo97ss

only if you were rockin some 205 and 225 all seasons, then the vette would be awesome....those stock tires are too wide just like the suv.

Might also be worthwhile driving the tires smooth in the summer to increase contact patch, tread depth is so overrated.

Plus the moment we got a BMW we said goodbye to laws of physics, they don't apply to us....

nice

[tristantumble]

Thanks for all the tips. I didn't think I was being unreasonably heavy footed, but will go easier. Turning off traction control is a great tip as well. I guess I assumed having winter tires would make my car invincible to rear wheel drive trappings in snowy conditions.

Thanks again.
TT.

[roo97ss]

Just got my first snow driving in the 1.

DTC off is still too intrusive, ya it won't let you slide, but it also won't let you make good power to say make a big hill from a near stop.

I couldn't make a big hill, about 4 inches packed with ruts, couldn't get enough wheel speed to make it happen.

Finally both off i made it but this car really needs a LSD; my m3 was definitely better in the snow, and i'd even venture to say my mustangs and camaros which were light in the rear end were every bit as good, getting going, and 'making' it.

On another note, the xi is disappointing compared to quattro. Our 530 again, even with DTC off is way too intrusive. Put it into a turn pretty hard and once it slides it doesn't want to get any power down to the front wheels to help pull it through.

With quattro being a 10, i can power my truck through the same way, but with the 530 it's scary as she slides, brakes hard, cuts power and won't pull through as well.

All the aforementioned cars are on good quality, good rubber performance snows, the truck on aggressive All Terrain tires...

Granted I was driving, playing to see what the limits are, and could have been driving slower in the 530xi and not slid as hard, but just feeling the cars out to know their capabilities. Growing up with jeeps in teh woods, quads, dirt bikes and snowmobiles nothing i like more than playing around at the limit and no easier way in a car but on snow...

[Wilks]

my experience has been interesting - I just got my 135 Vert - having had a GIAC flashed VW GLI for several years and an A6 Quattro before that - the GLI had 17 inch Dunlop Wintersport 3Ds and was great in the snow - better than my wife's Mazda CX9 AWD with all season tires but the Audi was the best of all. Before I got my winter tires for the 135 I couldn't get up the slight hill I live on - however, now I can with the Wintersports 3Ds on 17 rims I just bought - however, it's a bit of a struggle - in the GLI I would just give it a steady throttle and it would go - and was able to increase speed fine - with the 135 I have to keep the speed sloooow - too much acceleration and I spin the wheels...I had no qualms taking the GLI up to VT after a snowstorm to ski - I am not so sure I want to do that in the 135 even with the winter tires....