What comes after a 1M?

[gmx]

Originally Posted by nachob

Porsche is the last hope. I agree. They heard their customers and brought the manual only GT4 to the market. Now I hear that they will bring back the NA motor for the GT4 since the turbo versions have been a bit controversial. So I respect that Porsche seems to put some emphasis on those subjective things that car guys love. The problem with Porsche is just the outright cost. You have to go to a two seat Cayman or 911 which means if you have kids you still need another car.

We live in San Diego, the 8th largest city in the US and there are only two Porsche dealers in 4500 square mile sized county with 3.3 million people! They are 27 miles apart which by the time you factor traffic are realistically one hour apart. Then you can't even buy one of the cooler models unless you have been buying a new 100K porsche every two years.

With all that said, Porsche is the last of the German manufacturers that cares. BMW has moved on and away from the guys that were decrying the bloated tech-saturated cars. We are but a little tick in the side of a huge body that they are waiting for it to just sluff off and die so they can replace the steering wheel with an tablet slide controller and the windshield with an LCD display showing full digital movies of your choice when you decide that using the slide controller is too much effort and you want to enable auto pilot.

Totally agree. Great cars and the last to "make 'em like they use to" somewhat. Dislike how Porsche exploits this.
To get a GT car allocation here, you have to have been a schmuck and buy some base model prior. It's ironic they claim to make products for enthusiasts but demand loyalty such as be an existing customer and buy their non-GT cars which leave a lot left to be desired imo.

[jasonturbo]

For what it's worth,

I only recently acquired a BMW 1M, I must say it's quite a good little car. It was a total impulse buy for me, always wanted to scratch the itch, went to the dealer to have a quick peek, left with the car.

To provide some perspective, I've owned a number of M3's (E46, E90, E92), multiple Porsches (GT4, GT3, GT3 RS), Audi R8 V10, Acura NSX, S2000, Integra Type R, Golf R, etc. What I'm attempting to convey is that I've had a lot of experience with a lot of different vehicles that automotive enthusiasts tend to celebrate.

So what comes after the 1M, IMO unless you are moving to a GT Porsche don't bother getting rid of the 1M. The 1M holds value very well and is a great car in terms of finding the balance between daily driver comfort and sports car fun. It's a great size and the chassis balance is easily the best of any BMW I've ever driven, would be interesting to get it out on the track.

On the GT car front, 997 GT3 is the only car that makes me feel a sort of nervous excitement when I take it out, it is IMO the greatest road car ever made. Having said that, it falls short on tech (Obviously), comfort, and the interior, if not fitted with extended leather, is polluted with cheap plastics that are more suiting to a Honda Fit. A close second is the 981 GT4, though it's not quite as exciting as the 997 GT3 the trade off for modern tech and comfort might just be worth it for an older guy like me.

It's not going to be that hard to get a 718 GT4 if you want to order one, the Porsche market is saturated with GT cars and the speculators are not lining up to buy GT cars to flip like they used to. Porsche made so many 991 GT3's, take a look at all GT cars for sale on Autotrader, 80% of them will be 991 gen cars.

[seis-speed]

Originally Posted by burnsniper

I think BMW still offers a compelling M product in M2-4s that are strippers. For example, my F80 only has two options: 1. leather interior and 2. competition package. The car looks great, sounds great, has a stick and feels analogue, is a hoot to drive (although you have to be going much faster than in the 1M to truly appreciate it), and comfortably seats 4 and a baby. The car is not bloated with technology and since it is a 2017 it doesn't even have a backup camera!

The problem is that very few people actually want a car that is analogue or specified similar to my M3 (and is the same reason the 86 and brz don't sell well) even though they claim too. Even Bimmerpost is dominated by posts stating that "you have to get the executive package" or "I have got to have a HUD" and look at my "individual color/interior." Hell most of the M3/4 CS's are species with the exec package. These are what car buyers want and buy and where car manufacturers make money and dominate their focus.

Let's compare my F80 to how many so called "enthusiasts" say they would like to spec/modify/buy a car (can even be seen in the 1M forums with after market mods):

1. Good sounding exhaust - stock
2. "Race Seats" - stock
3. Upgraded wheels and tire size - stock
4. Functional carbon fiber parts - stock roof, drive shafts, and strut brace
5. Big brake kit - stock

All this can be had at or around invoice pricing and is a great deal from BmW.

I am with you on the F80. I loved mine, it was a 2015 model with MPE and HK radio as the only options. It was absolutely an enthusiast’s car. It felt light and agile, and IMO with an exhaust mod sounded good to me.

I sold it and I miss it - The stripper models early on weighed a lot less than a fully loaded Comp in 2018 and were mapped differently so the acceleration was violent much like the 1M on boost. My car weighed around 3450lbs on the truck scales that I use to weigh all my cars. If you spec it properly it can really change the feel of the car.

I also agree with you on Bimmerpost members. People want adaptive suspension on an already heavy M2C??? The luxury requests are confusing to me on a car that is supposed to be an enthusiast spec.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by seis-speed

I am with you on the F80. I loved mine, it was a 2015 model with MPE and HK radio as the only options. It was absolutely an enthusiast’s car. It felt light and agile, and IMO with an exhaust mod sounded good to me.

I sold it and I miss it - The stripper models early on weighed a lot less than a fully loaded Comp in 2018 and were mapped differently so the acceleration was violent much like the 1M on boost. My car weighed around 3450lbs on the truck scales that I use to weigh all my cars. If you spec it properly it can really change the feel of the car.

I also agree with you on Bimmerpost members. People want adaptive suspension on an already heavy M2C??? The luxury requests are confusing to me on a car that is supposed to be an enthusiast spec.

Judging by forum posts, and the direction that BMW has gone in, I don't think that your typical M2/M2C owner is the same sort of old-style BMW enthusiast that we celebrate on this 1M forum. Most M2/M2C owners are younger and have little previous experience with the brand, with cars that may have had a lot less power but were still way more engaging and fun to drive than anything being produced now (regardless of manufacturer).

The M2/M2C is much more of a near-luxury/aspirational car than it is an enthusiast/driver's car. The only caveat I would add to that comment is that if the usage of the car is primarily as a track car, the M2/M2C might actually be exceptional; other things are desirable in a track car than in a street car, and the M2/M2C might be near the top of the heap if that is your usage.

But for most people who's idea of a driver's car is something you can canyon carve in, I'd rather drive a 135i or even a 2002, than an M2/M2C, for sheer driving engagement and fun.

[swunder]

I currently have a 135is and will likely add a Cayman or Boxster. Want to go in more of a sports car direction rather than sports sedan/coupe.

If I had a 1M I would definitely not sell it but only add to the stable. I'm thinking the 135is might be similar, though certainly more expendable.

Other than said Porsche... not much out there interests me.

[burnsniper]

Here are a couple others to consider:

1. Used Alfa 4c - would almost be a must buy with a manual.
2. Used GLA 45 AMG; if I stumbled across a preface-lift with buckets, aero package, and in Krypton Green it would almost be a must buy
3. M2 CSL if they make it
4. New Miata RF (would pair awesome with No. 2)
5. Ford Gt350R
6. Used C63 AMG Black in Yellow, White, or Red with the wing; I would definitely buy one of these (assuming I could find one) if it wasn't for the head bolt issues.

The depreciation curve on the first two is fierce and only make sense used. Four and five are great enthusiast cars but not necessarily for me

Personally, I think the next garage mate to my current fleet will be a used Ferrari 550 or 430 (manual) or an FF/GT4C, early Lamborghini Diablo (manual, rwd), Porsche GT3 or possibly a Taycan, or a Clown Shoe with an S54. The clown shoe and Porsche options just seem so boring (sense of occasion which is part of the 1M magic) compared to the Italian options for the money - however are obviously great/better cars.

I would also consider an used OG Tesla Roadster - what other car has been launched into space (although I am not a Musk fan)?

[champignon]

Originally Posted by burnsniper

Here are a couple others to consider:

1. Used Alfa 4c - would almost be a must buy with a manual.
2. Used GLA 45 AMG; if I stumbled across a preface-lift with buckets, aero package, and in Krypton Green it would almost be a must buy
3. M2 CSL if they make it
4. New Miata RF (would pair awesome with No. 2)
5. Ford Gt350R
6. Used C63 AMG Black in Yellow, White, or Red with the wing; I would definitely buy one of these (assuming I could find one) if it wasn't for the head bolt issues.

The depreciation curve on the first two is fierce and only make sense used. Four and five are great enthusiast cars but not necessarily for me

Personally, I think the next garage mate to my current fleet will be a used Ferrari 550 or 430 (manual) or an FF/GT4C, early Lamborghini Diablo (manual, rwd), Porsche GT3 or possibly a Taycan, or a Clown Shoe with an S54. The clown shoe and Porsche options just seem so boring (sense of occasion which is part of the 1M magic) compared to the Italian options for the money - however are obviously great/better cars.

I would also consider an used OG Tesla Roadster - what other car has been launched into space (although I am not a Musk fan)?

People are obsessed with the S54 version Clown Shoe, to the point where the car is wholly unaffordable and not worth anywhere near the differential commanded over the much more common S52 version (one of which I own). I don't get it. 240 HP is plenty of power for that car, you just need to know how to drive and how to accelerate in the gears. It's only a 5 speed, after all, and it's a small and light car. Plus the S54 version has a tendency to delaminate the subfloor, which wasn't designed for that powerful of an engine, and probably also has a higher likelihood of having been abused.

A nice S52 Z3M Coupe can probably be had for under $30K, and in a higher mileage version, way less than that.

[Savethestickshift]

Originally Posted by burnsniper

Here are a couple others to consider:

1. Used Alfa 4c - would almost be a must buy with a manual.
2. Used GLA 45 AMG; if I stumbled across a preface-lift with buckets, aero package, and in Krypton Green it would almost be a must buy
3. M2 CSL if they make it
4. New Miata RF (would pair awesome with No. 2)
5. Ford Gt350R
6. Used C63 AMG Black in Yellow, White, or Red with the wing; I would definitely buy one of these (assuming I could find one) if it wasn't for the head bolt issues.

The depreciation curve on the first two is fierce and only make sense used. Four and five are great enthusiast cars but not necessarily for me

Personally, I think the next garage mate to my current fleet will be a used Ferrari 550 or 430 (manual) or an FF/GT4C, early Lamborghini Diablo (manual, rwd), Porsche GT3 or possibly a Taycan, or a Clown Shoe with an S54. The clown shoe and Porsche options just seem so boring (sense of occasion which is part of the 1M magic) compared to the Italian options for the money - however are obviously great/better cars.

I would also consider an used OG Tesla Roadster - what other car has been launched into space (although I am not a Musk fan)?

The Alfa 4C doesn't come in a manual...

[burnsniper]

Originally Posted by Agbellin

The Alfa 4C doesn't come in a manual...

That was my point.

[Roundown]

Originally Posted by burnsniper

I think BMW still offers a compelling M product in M2-4s that are strippers. For example, my F80 only has two options: 1. leather interior and 2. competition package. The car looks great, sounds great, has a stick and feels analogue, is a hoot to drive (although you have to be going much faster than in the 1M to truly appreciate it), and comfortably seats 4 and a baby. The car is not bloated with technology and since it is a 2017 it doesn't even have a backup camera!

The problem is that very few people actually want a car that is analogue or specified similar to my M3 (and is the same reason the 86 and brz don't sell well) even though they claim too. Even Bimmerpost is dominated by posts stating that "you have to get the executive package" or "I have got to have a HUD" and look at my "individual color/interior." Hell most of the M3/4 CS's are species with the exec package. These are what car buyers want and buy and where car manufacturers make money and dominate their focus.

Let's compare my F80 to how many so called "enthusiasts" say they would like to spec/modify/buy a car (can even be seen in the 1M forums with after market mods):

1. Good sounding exhaust - stock
2. "Race Seats" - stock
3. Upgraded wheels and tire size - stock
4. Functional carbon fiber parts - stock roof, drive shafts, and strut brace
5. Big brake kit - stock

All this can be had at or around invoice pricing and is a great deal from BmW.

Anologue? I think I'd give the E9x M3 the last nod for being analogue. Even with its drive-by-wire throttle.

[Roundown]

I built an E46 M3 wagon. I think I'm into it for more than the 1M (brand new OE or OE+ for anything that moves or wears), but it's a great multi-purpose ride!

[nachob]

"What comes after 1M?"

Death!

[seis-speed]

Originally Posted by Roundown

I built an E46 M3 wagon. I think I'm into it for more than the 1M (brand new OE or OE+ for anything that moves or wears), but it's a great multi-purpose ride!

I hope so, that is a serious project. Can you share some pics?
Wagons are awesome, IMO! I appreciate multi-purpose as well.

[burnsniper]

Originally Posted by Roundown

Anologue? I think I'd give the E9x M3 the last nod for being analogue. Even with its drive-by-wire throttle.

In some ways it's not analogue:
1. Smoother transition to loss of traction
2. More linear torque curve/power delivery (no overboost)
3. Pulls all the way to 7600 rpm
4. Sharper turn in

Also, the F80 has good road feel though the chassis (obviously not that great through the wheel). You notice a huge difference in this aspect in the M3 vs say a series loaner.

That being said, the 1M is by far the more fun and desirable car. It may be sacrilegious to say but comparing the 1M to the F80 is like comparing a 930 Turbo to a 991 Turbo - they both look cool, one is way more fun and tries to kill you, while the other one is perfectly engineered to devour the road.

[Roundown]

Originally Posted by burnsniper

In some ways it's not analogue:
1. Smoother transition to loss of traction
2. More linear torque curve/power delivery (no overboost)
3. Pulls all the way to 7600 rpm
4. Sharper turn in

Also, the F80 has food road feel though the chassis (obviously not that great through the wheel). You notice a huge difference in this aspect in the M3 vs say a series loaner.

That being said, the 1M is by far the more fun and desirable car. It may be sacrilegious to say but comparing the 1M to the F80 is like comparing a 930 Turbo to a 991 Turbo - they both look cool, one is way more fun and tries to kill you, while the other one is perfectly engineered to devour the road.

I loved my 1M, it's 'raw' and certainly more 'analogue' than an F80...but when I think analogue, I think natural aspiration, preferably high-revving. E90 M3, GT4, etc.

Clearly that's a subjective judgement!

[10"]

Originally Posted by burnsniper

I think BMW still offers a compelling M product in M2-4s that are strippers. For example, my F80 only has two options: 1. leather interior and 2. competition package. The car looks great, sounds great, has a stick and feels analogue, is a hoot to drive (although you have to be going much faster than in the 1M to truly appreciate it), and comfortably seats 4 and a baby. The car is not bloated with technology and since it is a 2017 it doesn't even have a backup camera!

The problem is that very few people actually want a car that is analogue or specified similar to my M3 (and is the same reason the 86 and brz don't sell well) even though they claim too. Even Bimmerpost is dominated by posts stating that "you have to get the executive package" or "I have got to have a HUD" and look at my "individual color/interior." Hell most of the M3/4 CS's are species with the exec package. These are what car buyers want and buy and where car manufacturers make money and dominate their focus.

Let's compare my F80 to how many so called "enthusiasts" say they would like to spec/modify/buy a car (can even be seen in the 1M forums with after market mods):

1. Good sounding exhaust - stock
2. "Race Seats" - stock
3. Upgraded wheels and tire size - stock
4. Functional carbon fiber parts - stock roof, drive shafts, and strut brace
5. Big brake kit - stock

All this can be had at or around invoice pricing and is a great deal from BmW.

I would say a 'base' F80 M3 is a decent car...but not even close to being analogue. Have driven a few and liked it but it still felt detached to me. The steering felt video game-like and the brakes felt boosted. There are suspension "settings" (which I don't want), fake noise, and that quite unfortunate S55 exhaust note!

I do think BMW is heading in a not so savoury direction in the next M3 so the F8X generation may again be thought of as analogue compared to the blasphemous AWD M3 about to drop—-but the F80 M3 still doesn't really qualify as an analogue car to me. It doesn't have the 'connected' feel of the E90 M3...

[seis-speed]

Originally Posted by 10"

I would say a 'base' F80 M3 is a decent car...but not even close to being analogue. Have driven a few and liked it but it still felt detached to me. The steering felt video game-like and the brakes felt boosted. There are suspension "settings" (which I don't want), fake noise, and that quite unfortunate S55 exhaust note!

I do think BMW is heading in a not so savoury direction in the next M3 so the F8X generation may again be thought of as analogue compared to the blasphemous AWD M3 about to drop—-but the F80 M3 still doesn't really qualify as an analogue car to me. It doesn't have the 'connected' feel of the E90 M3...

The F80 reminds me of the 1M in how it breaks traction easily and can be a handful with slight throttle inputs. The torque overpowering the chassis is a fun dynamic. The early base models could be bought without adaptive suspension, which is preferable, IMO.

The EPS steering is the obvious downside - hydraulic is just better.
That is the connection that people feel is missing.

Porsche has done the best job of engineering the EPS “feel”.

Hoping the M-division can enhance the steering this go around (G80 pure) and take all the good bits of the F80 and enhance the weakness in the steering.

1M steering is so good, it should be reason #1 in every review of why it is such a special car, JMHO, but the heavy inputs, road feel, ratio, feel of the wheel is the definition of ‘analogue feel’ for me in a car.

[swanny71]

Love my 1M but UK roads, traffic, speed camera’s and do-gooders with dashcams are making me seriously think about something more fun, more of the time (at lower speeds).

Current thoughts are:
New Mx-5 RF + £20k in the bank
New Alpine A110 + £10k less in the bank

Trouble is, the 1M is just so fucking cool and unique that I’m struggling to make the decision.

[SpencerMH]

Agree hard to beat s 1m, I got a manual m6 gran coupe and chipped it to be my daily to keep miles off the 1m and in the garage as I stacked up DD'ing it for 6 years. I am always pleasantly happy when the m6 or wife's cars in the shop and I revert to the 1m, just perfect in almost every way. Seat position was high was my only critique(performance seats are rip off but oh so good).

Mine frustrates me at the track, short wheelbase makes it hard to keep up with larger cars and always some light that comes on but a big turbo 1m with 89k miles what are you going to do.

Absolutely wonderful on street and so much more fun than my other cars and nearly any I've driven, especially at real world speeds. Hard to ring out a gt3rs but the Brutish little 1m is a blast even if speed limits 45.

Porsche gt cars only real way mainstream to upgrade and driven plenty, put deposits down and stuck with the 1m in the end 3 times now.

The Alfa 4c if they made manual is a great statement, wonderful little cars if looking for fun but manual is too important to me.

Noteworthy is I recently tried to get the wife to trade her manual 996 C2(so incredible for the money w suspension, exhaust, intake and it's right up there for fun when you factor in cost to run and depreciation) on a new lotus Evora 400 and if I wasn't attached to the 1m I might swapped it if I'm being real. I highly recommend anyone interested in the slightest go drive it, super direct steering, incredible ap brakes, shifters up there w 1m. Overall experience like the 1m is simple, fabulous, I loved it, engine is mundane but delivers what you need. I was offered $25k total off sticker inclusive of lotus rebates making it low 80's and 100% worth it but alas fixed seat height when I'm 6'2" and she's 5'1" matters and wasn't giving the 1m up! Definitely say check out a stick shift evora 400 or 410.

[1mGator]

Nacho,

We are truly old souls unhappy without that third pedal on the floor and that joy stick in our hand ..... long live true sports cars😎


QUOTE=nachob;24712980]I replaced mine. Got a 2003 330i ZHP manual since I had small kids while I evaluated M235, M2, etc. I regretted selling mine. I ended up looking at a lot of cars and finally looked for a used 1M and went back. It's coming on 4 years soon with the 2nd 1M. The first one I had just under two years.

There are lot of guys here that love the NAV, IDrive, dynamic suspensions, backup sensors, power folding mirrors etc. I don't. So for ME, there is nothing else out there. For the first time in my life there are no new cars I am lusting for. I really like the Audi S3 but only automatic and it has a screen and iController. Same with RS3. The GTI, I do like and still offered with a manual but already picked up one of those for the wife. All the new BMWs with fake sound, big screens, electric steering just turn me off.

I have started to only look at used cars. Today I decided to look at 2015 gen 3 miata club. I went to the dealer but it was sold. He showed me a current Gen4 Miata with Recaro seats and BBS wheels. I paused for a second. It looked pretty good but then I sit in it with the stupid iController and this-has-no-business-in-a-real-sportscar screen and I just couldn't do it.

The new gadget driving interfaces kill it for me and no more manual options. The Golf R has gone all digital instruments. So there is nothing for me after the 1M.

I'm not the only one, I'm sure of it. Prices for analog manual cars are going nuts. E46 M3s, manual Ferraris, etc. People are realizing that this stuff is going away. So it makes it very hard to let go of the 1M.

If you don't care about that stuff like I do. I envy you. If it doesn't bother you, I mean it. I truly wish I would get off on having a big computer screen in front of my sports car view.

Really the 1M is irreplaceable if you like the pure no-nav cockpit, an oil gauge, no digital soundtrack, manual transmission and analog steering and cockpit.

Good luck in your search![/QUOTE]

[duder13]

I don't have a 1M, but I went from a 996 911 to a 987 Cayman to my current (modded) 135i. There really isn't anything I'd trade an E82 for that's being made today. If I didn't need a backseat, I'd probably buy a 2012 987 Cayman R, because the 987 Caymans just feel so much more "go-karty" than the newer models, but the backseat is why I got out of Porsche in the first place.

If forced to buy something new, I guess the M2C checks the most boxes, but I'd rather keep my 135i.

Now, if Porsche made a new coupe more along the lines of the 928 or 944, which has more rear headroom than a 911, then I'd consider it.

[///BYU]

Originally Posted by burnsniper

While I wish my 1M didn't have iDrive (I was one of the ones who got free Nav/iDrive thanks to the August BMW screw up) it works really well for music and general car info. At least my 1M doesn't have PDC warts- the main reason I didn't order fully loaded!

My 1M was the same way. The European Delivery guy said, "now I'm going to show you how the iDrive works," and I was like, "wait, huh?"

As far as "what next?" my situation is a little strange. I feel like I won the lottery getting my 1M allocation. It was totally unexpected. I was 34 and my wife and I just had our seventh kid (username checks out). I was a huge car enthusiast, but our financial and family situation meant we were driving a minivan and a Saturn Astra -- and I never drove anything special before that either, just basic transportation. All of a sudden I was looking at doing European Delivery and Performance Center Delivery with a car that was basically everything I ever wanted in a vehicle -- my ne plus ultra.

If I had to move on from my 1M, I'd probably go "backward" and buy the cars I would have driven while eventually working up to a 1M some day. S2000, heavily modified and stripped out Civic hatchback, Miata, E46 ZHP or Touring, E30 325is, 135i -- along with other things like a Triumph Street Triple motorcycle and I'd love to import a Peugeot 205 GTI.

I actually think there are many cars I'd have a ton of fun with, but they're all a step down from the 1M, which is fine by me. Nothing new and expensive outside of maybe a GT3 RS is really that interesting to me. I'd much rather spend my money on a fun-but-inexpensive car I don't mind taking to the track, parking on the street, driving in the snow, etc. That would be somewhat of a relief, actually -- even compared to my 1M. Then I could use the extra money to travel (with my family + MotoGP, IOMTT, Le Mans and Nurburgring 24h, etc.), rent a car at the Nurburgring, do more multi-day wilderness backpacking trips, ski more often, etc.

The only things I don't like about my 1M are that (1) I wasn't able to experience a lot of other cars before being so fortunate to own one and (2) I feel compelled to keep it stock. I think I want my next car to be something I basically rebuild and personalize / modify extensively -- something I feel reflects the purest expression of whatever it is I'm trying to achieve. That level of personalization is missing in my 1M ownership experience. Then, once I've built it, just enjoy driving it and not worry too much about the inevitable rock chips and minor imperfections.