New kid on the block - Michelin PSS4s

[Dackelone]

Matt Farah said(in his podcast) that he couldn't tell the difference between PSS and PS4-S's. It's probably a very slight improvement over PSS's. I would buy the tires you can get the best deal on. Just make sure the build date is not older than 6 or so months. Tires are really only good for five years from the date they are built.

http://shoutengine.com/TheSmokingTir...n-racers-32319

[CarJunkie]

Originally Posted by GimmeanM

285/35 rears?

While I doubt anyone will know at this point how the PS4S profile compares to the RE71r profile, does anyone know how the RE71r profile compares generally to other tires? Is it more square/taller in general? If the RE71r's in 285/35 don't fit for you CarJunkie I'm curious to know how they compare to Michelin's general shape.

Doesn't look like a 285/30 for the PS4S is going to be produced..??

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires...Pilot+Sport+4S

Which makes me think that 285/35 in the PS4S for me lowered on H&R springs may not work?

It seems to me that bridgestones are wider and more square. When my PS2's wore out, I switched to RE11's in stock sizes and the fronts rubbed on the fender liner at full lock. They were definitely larger than the stock michelins in same size. I never used PSS, so I can't comment on those. There is a chance PSS or PS4S would fit the rear in 285/35. MDORPHN stated above he uses 265/35/19 on the front in a PSS. There is no way I could run that size in RE71r even with the revised liners, so that also suggests the michelins run smaller. Keep in mind I am lowered.

[MDORPHN]

Originally Posted by CarJunkie

It seems to me that bridgestones are wider and more square. When my PS2's wore out, I switched to RE11's in stock sizes and the fronts rubbed on the fender liner at full lock. They were definitely larger than the stock michelins in same size. I never used PSS, so I can't comment on those. There is a chance PSS or PS4S would fit the rear in 285/35. MDORPHN stated above he uses 265/35/19 on the front in a PSS. There is no way I could run that size in RE71r even with the revised liners, so that also suggests the michelins run smaller. Keep in mind I am lowered.

I'm also lowered, but am running about 3 degrees of camber in front.

Neil

[GimmeanM]

Chatted with Michelin...

Sounds like a 285/30-19 is going to be made in the PS4S

[Eyeman]

This thread is the most 135 seeming threads that I have noticed on the 1M side of things. Only a few 135 owners went to aftermarket wheels that allow 265 or bigger tires, most of us struggle to run 255s, and many of us are running in the 400wHP range. It's a mess..lol.

Funny enough I had to go to a 3 series rear brake rotor that has a shorter hat to gain some space (8mm) so I could run 255 PSS's. I guess that could be an option for you guys. Many of us rolled/pulled, even trimmed our fenders. That tab where the rear bumper connects is the main issue. I even removed my rear seat and went to a lightweight battery before my rotor mod.

[GimmeanM]

Originally Posted by GimmeanM

Chatted with Michelin...

Sounds like a 285/30-19 is going to be made in the PS4S

Well, that turned out to be a lie. Chatted again and was told there is no 285/30-19 slated for the foreseeable future. Also called and sent an email to customer service and got the same response.

255/35 and 275/35 on the way...

[Em/1]

Originally Posted by ayao

How are the RE71s in the wet?

Grassroots just did comparo on PSS and new

Conti ECS and latter dominated in the wet and overall preferred even in dry; of course, they had to tease us that PS4 up next. If plan to use at track, can't see beating 71's for now.

[Xccelerate]

I'm going to throw my comments in here
Just ordered a set
PS4
255/30 front
295/30 rear
I will be lowered on v3s hoping for no rub issues what's all thoughts? Stock ZCP 19s

Also hearing great things on the PS4s

[CarJunkie]

Originally Posted by Xccelerate

I'm going to throw my comments in here
Just ordered a set
PS4
255/30 front
295/30 rear
I will be lowered on v3s hoping for no rub issues what's all thoughts? Stock ZCP 19s

Also hearing great things on the PS4s

I have 255/35/19 on the front, lowered 17mm with no rubbing on noticeably chunkier RE71's. If you increase caster, there is a chance of rubbing on the passenger side bulge toward the rear of the wheel well, but I doubt it on 30 series tire.

[Em/1]

FWIW just replaced original PS2's (age--clearly getting kinda greasy, rears at 2/32, front 4-5/32) at 28K miles with Continental ECS, based on very favorable review at Grassroots Motorsports), 255/35/19 front, 275/35/19 rear on stock suspension and couldn't be happier; quite a bit cheaper than PS4 and I think likely still better in the wet.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by CarJunkie

I have had good luck with 255/275 RE71r's, no tramlining issues and perfect fit with updated fender liners. I have added power, which is the reason for wanting a wider rear. Balance should remain about the same and I will use the alignment to fine tune.

I think I am going to stick with the RE71r for another year, which is probably still the king for autocross street tire class. They don't last very long, but are otherwise phenomenal.

i havent sprung for these yet.. however.. from all my peers.. " don't last long" means it takes TWO sets to get through a season instead of one.. with some moderate distance driving to and from events and flipping on the rims etc as needed.. indeed.. they are a must for autocross to win..

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Em/1

FWIW just replaced original PS2's (age--clearly getting kinda greasy, rears at 2/32, front 4-5/32) at 28K miles with Continental ECS, based on very favorable review at Grassroots Motorsports), 255/35/19 front, 275/35/19 rear on stock suspension and couldn't be happier; quite a bit cheaper than PS4 and I think likely still better in the wet.

wow.. my car is mostly a GQ too.. i have around 32K miles.. and I'd have thrown away those original PS2s after they got to 5/32 in the rear..or three years old... . those things sucked for rear grip with FULL tread.. and greasy came LONG before 5/32..

Why were you risking your life and your 1M with those things keeping them for 6 years? The Michelin Pilot Supersport was a huge upgrade.. so was pretty much *any other* high performance tire..

wow... you must feel like you have a new car... your car has got to be thanking you for new shoes like a teenager that hasn't had a new pair of tennis shoes in years..

this is a public service message to all 1M owners driving a fifty thousand dollar car with 6 year old shoes..

***if you have original PS2s on your car... seriously find some new tires... IMMEDIATELY *** you will thank me the moment you hit the accelerator after WHATEVER new tires are installed..


Meahwhile.. back at the ranch.. has anyone gotten any PS4S in.. ?

[CarJunkie]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

i havent sprung for these yet.. however.. from all my peers.. " don't last long" means it takes TWO sets to get through a season instead of one.. with some moderate distance driving to and from events and flipping on the rims etc as needed.. indeed.. they are a must for autocross to win..

My autocross club runs 14 points events, plus 4 non-points spring practice events, and many also go to the national tour event at Packwood and another regional shoot out in Montana. A set of RE71R's will usually last the season on a car that isn't a daily driver, but it takes management. (spraydowns after runs, flipping mid-season)

With my work schedule (working every 3rd weekend) and having kids, I make it to about 6 autocross events and 2 HPDE's per year. My first set of RE71R's did that plus about 10,000 miles and corded the front INNER tread blocks.

I decreased camber from -2.8 to -2.4 this year, but am regretting that from a grip standpoint and its probably is only an issue because I am not doing enough "white knuckled" driving. We'll see how they wear this year.

I agree on the public service announcement . . . if you have PS2's, even if it is a low mileage "collector" car, get 'em off!!!

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by CarJunkie

My autocross club runs 14 points events, plus 4 non-points spring practice events, and many also go to the national tour event at Packwood and another regional shoot out in Montana. A set of RE71R's will usually last the season on a car that isn't a daily driver, but it takes management. (spraydowns after runs, flipping mid-season)

With my work schedule (working every 3rd weekend) and having kids, I make it to about 6 autocross events and 2 HPDE's per year. My first set of RE71R's did that plus about 10,000 miles and corded the front INNER tread blocks.

I decreased camber from -2.8 to -2.4 this year, but am regretting that from a grip standpoint and its probably is only an issue because I am not doing enough "white knuckled" driving. We'll see how they wear this year.

I agree on the public service announcement . . . if you have PS2's, even if it is a low mileage "collector" car, get 'em off!!!

Wow 14 events ! Awesome ! Our BMW chapter holds 9-10 events in a year. It's about a 75 mile commute to and from the course, plus we also use some very large (airport ) lots with rough concrete and course times in the 90 second range.

At 10 runs per event, that's about 100 mostly higher speed Autocross for the season not including re-runs. My friend Matt said that he also adds six HPDE days and something around 2500-4000 street miles in a season. He perennially wins his class, but now it takes him two sets of RE-71s for the year. He was generally able to get a full season on other Autocross tires up til now.

He eschews watering ... so could be doing more but you are definitely getting some mileage out of yours it sounds like

So.. for those that want to take down a local Autocross season trophy ... bring fresh tires

[CarJunkie]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

Wow 14 events ! Awesome ! Our BMW chapter holds 9-10 events in a year. It's about a 75 mile commute to and from the course, plus we also use some very large (airport ) lots with rough concrete and course times in the 90 second range.

At 10 runs per event, that's about 100 mostly higher speed Autocross for the season not including re-runs. My friend Matt also adds
six HPDE days and something around 2500-4000 street miles and for him this takes two sets of RE-71s for the year. He was generally able to get a full season on other tires.

He eschews watering ... so could be doing more but you are definitely getting some mileage out of yours it sounds like

Our courses are usually 50-60 seconds, 6-8 runs per event, and we use an old Nascar 1/2 mile tri-oval. The paddock area has relatively new high quality asphalt, and the oval is smooth river rock asphalt with less grip. It is friendly to tires, but treacherous when wet. We don't run if it rains, but that is rare here anyway.

[hot-j]

Originally Posted by CarJunkie

My autocross club runs 14 points events, plus 4 non-points spring practice events, and many also go to the national tour event at Packwood and another regional shoot out in Montana. A set of RE71R's will usually last the season on a car that isn't a daily driver, but it takes management. (spraydowns after runs, flipping mid-season)

With my work schedule (working every 3rd weekend) and having kids, I make it to about 6 autocross events and 2 HPDE's per year. My first set of RE71R's did that plus about 10,000 miles and corded the front INNER tread blocks.

I decreased camber from -2.8 to -2.4 this year, but am regretting that from a grip standpoint and its probably is only an issue because I am not doing enough "white knuckled" driving. We'll see how they wear this year.

I agree on the public service announcement . . . if you have PS2's, even if it is a low mileage "collector" car, get 'em off!!!

What are the rest of your alignment settings?

[Em/1]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

wow.. my car is mostly a GQ too.. i have around 32K miles.. and I'd have thrown away those original PS2s after they got to 5/32 in the rear..or three years old... . those things sucked for rear grip with FULL tread.. and greasy came LONG before 5/32..

Why were you risking your life and your 1M with those things keeping them for 6 years? The Michelin Pilot Supersport was a huge upgrade.. so was pretty much *any other* high performance tire..

wow... you must feel like you have a new car... your car has got to be thanking you for new shoes like a teenager that hasn't had a new pair of tennis shoes in years..

this is a public service message to all 1M owners driving a fifty thousand dollar car with 6 year old shoes..

***if you have original PS2s on your car... seriously find some new tires... IMMEDIATELY *** you will thank me the moment you hit the accelerator after WHATEVER new tires are installed..


Meahwhile.. back at the ranch.. has anyone gotten any PS4S in.. ?

So dramatic! Actually, as has been pointed out in these forums by much better drivers than myself, lower traction tires can be more fun than the really sticky stuff. I felt much more comfortable with traction control off and sliding the rear around on the street with the PS2's than I would ( I haven't even tried) with the new shoes. I mostly wanted to get better traction in the wet and standing water had the potential to be scary.

[CarJunkie]

Originally Posted by hot-j

What are the rest of your alignment settings?

Last year, stock springs/shocks:
Front
Camber -2.7 left / -2.8 right
Caster +7.2 left / +7.4 right
Toe 0.01 degree toe in

Rear
Camber -1.7 left / -1.8 right
Toe 0.19 degrees toe in

Rear tread wear was even across the tread, slightly more overall wear than the front. The fronts wore excessively in the inner treads, where they corded despite having about 3/32 remaining in the middle and outer blocks. Handling was very neutral using staggered setup, Bridgestone RE71r 255/35 front and 275/35 rear on OEM wheels. My Vorschlag plates were set 1 step higher on caster and there was a slight rub at low speeds turning right due to a bulge in the fender liner right in front of the passender side door. It never wore through.


Fast forward to this year, now on Ohlins R+T and lowered 17mm front and 5mm rear. I returned the camber plates to the stock position for caster:

Front
Camber -2.4 left / -2.3 right
Caster +7.4 left / +6.9 right
Toe 0.02 degrees toe in

Rear
Camber -1.6 left / -1.6 right
Toe 0.16 degrees toe in

Overall, handling is better with the Ohlins, but I have probably given something up in total grip with the current camber settings. At my first autocross, I felt some push on corner entry and was managing my tire pressures the same way as usual, and appeared to be fully utilizing the rubber. For my last event, I kept the front dampers 1 click softer and turn-in was MUCH better. The car is neutral mid-corner and puts the power down well. Looking forward to a real track day!

I have also noticed a slight rub on the left front fender well above the oil cooler vents using the same wheels and tires (although new) this year. This occurs with perhaps 20-30% steering wheel input to the right at high enough speed to load the left front, and has worn through. It does not rub in the usual spot (vents behind oil cooler), and instead is rubbing on a prominent raised bulge in the liner that has me wondering "why the hell is there a bulge in the liner there?"

This winter I will raise the front 2mm (15mm drop was what I was targeting anyway, but figured 17 was close enough) and will tweak the camber depending on what I see for treadwear this year. I am thinking -2.6 front and -1.8 rear will be pretty damn good.

[OneM]

Was running PSS but the rears started losing grip after ~10,000kms or so.

These ADVANS AD08R's are pretty amazing.. still going strong > 10,000kms and grip is in a different level. Wet performance safely drivable but way down on PSS.

[CarJunkie]

Originally Posted by OneM

Was running PSS but the rears started losing grip after ~10,000kms or so.

These ADVANS AD08R's are pretty amazing.. still going strong > 10,000kms and grip is in a different level. Wet performance safely drivable but way down on PSS.

What sizes?

[OneM]

245/35 n 275/35.

At the time 255 weren't available so got 245 instead, .. the car understeers and has been driving me nuts, recently ordered 255.

But you're running RE71R's, the ADVAN is a step down I believe

[hot-j]

Originally Posted by CarJunkie

Last year, stock springs/shocks:
Front
Camber -2.7 left / -2.8 right
Caster +7.2 left / +7.4 right
Toe 0.01 degree toe in

Rear
Camber -1.7 left / -1.8 right
Toe 0.19 degrees toe in

Rear tread wear was even across the tread, slightly more overall wear than the front. The fronts wore excessively in the inner treads, where they corded despite having about 3/32 remaining in the middle and outer blocks. Handling was very neutral using staggered setup, Bridgestone RE71r 255/35 front and 275/35 rear on OEM wheels. My Vorschlag plates were set 1 step higher on caster and there was a slight rub at low speeds turning right due to a bulge in the fender liner right in front of the passender side door. It never wore through.


Fast forward to this year, now on Ohlins R+T and lowered 17mm front and 5mm rear. I returned the camber plates to the stock position for caster:

Front
Camber -2.4 left / -2.3 right
Caster +7.4 left / +6.9 right
Toe 0.02 degrees toe in

Rear
Camber -1.6 left / -1.6 right
Toe 0.16 degrees toe in

Overall, handling is better with the Ohlins, but I have probably given something up in total grip with the current camber settings. At my first autocross, I felt some push on corner entry and was managing my tire pressures the same way as usual, and appeared to be fully utilizing the rubber. For my last event, I kept the front dampers 1 click softer and turn-in was MUCH better. The car is neutral mid-corner and puts the power down well. Looking forward to a real track day!

I have also noticed a slight rub on the left front fender well above the oil cooler vents using the same wheels and tires (although new) this year. This occurs with perhaps 20-30% steering wheel input to the right at high enough speed to load the left front, and has worn through. It does not rub in the usual spot (vents behind oil cooler), and instead is rubbing on a prominent raised bulge in the liner that has me wondering "why the hell is there a bulge in the liner there?"

This winter I will raise the front 2mm (15mm drop was what I was targeting anyway, but figured 17 was close enough) and will tweak the camber depending on what I see for treadwear this year. I am thinking -2.6 front and -1.8 rear will be pretty damn good.

Thanks for the detailed response. I'm on stock wheels, ohlins coils 255/35 re71r front and 285/35 re71r rear. Currently 2.5 front camber 0 toe and 6.8 caster. Rear is 2.0 camber and .004 toe. It is very neutral on the limit with a hint of understeer on corner entry. Will be trying 2.3 front camber next. (Streetcar). I have the front shocks full stiff and rear 1 click from full stiff currently (will change soon with addition of h&r sways) and REALLY like how it feels. Just a tad more body roll to get rid of. I can't say exactly what my heights are, but I am lowered and corner balanced.