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08-05-2007, 11:20 PM | #23 | |
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As for the automatic being faster, that could just be down to gearing, but an automatic gearbox will almost always result in more power loss through the drivetrain than a manual. So inherently, a manual is more powerful. As stated, though, that can be compensated for by gearing. Additionally with the automatic 335i coming with only one oil cooler, the automatic wont be the performance option.
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08-06-2007, 12:09 AM | #24 |
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theres a difference between the transmissions in F1 cars and a BMW.......F1 cars do not have automatic transmissions, nor steptronic transmissions, they have automated manual transmisions.....which means there's still a clutch that 's operated by a computer. Steptronic and automated manual transmissions are quite different..... M power....i believe that on the 335i any car with the sports package now has the additional oil cooler....BMW changed it
p.s. formula 1 drivers use a clutch off the line |
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08-06-2007, 03:33 PM | #25 |
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The auto is superb no doubt about it, but I don't care if it is 3 seconds faster to 60 and irons my socks in the trunk while it's at it... I'll always buy a stick if it's available. Just me.
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08-06-2007, 03:51 PM | #26 |
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Clutches are Old-School
A manual transmission with a Clutch Pedal is an archaic device. I like manual transmissions, but the whole push-in the clutch while shifting the gear thing seems like a relic from the past. I’m sorry but clutch pedals seem out of place in modern cars IMO.
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08-06-2007, 04:48 PM | #27 |
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this is the way i look at it......if im going to be modding the car then im going w/ the manual because the auto cant take much more power....but if your goibng to leave it stock or just stick to a procede/excede then i guess you would be fine with the auto
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08-06-2007, 07:25 PM | #28 |
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I know everyone has an oppinion on this but revciently I had more insite. I far prefer manual. Not for a sence of pride or anything, it feel more fun to me, like the power band is more at your disposal. I like control of exactly when the gear engages, I also drive an e90 325 that's got steptronic and it's super smooth but when you are looking for the faster get acceleration it has a noticable lag a bit inbetween gears. Where manual can switch as fast as you can basically.
Also manual gets better gas milage, I don't like that I can't slow down with the car with the engine/clutch even with steptronic seems to not slow the car down as much as a manual. I feel like I'm all breaks with AT and more fluid with MT. I also love that the one I perfer is cheaper. |
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08-06-2007, 08:43 PM | #29 | |
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and yet..... the AT still hasn't been able to supplant it, is testament to the fact it's still the best performance tranny.
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08-06-2007, 08:55 PM | #30 | ||
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Some people have the misconception that downshifting is used on the track to help slow the car down. It is to some extent, but if you're threshold braking hard enough starting at the right brake point, you won't have enough time to get any useful braking action out of the engine before reaching your turn-in point. In most instances you need to be in your exit gear BEFORE entering the turn. Otherwise, if you're trying to shift in the middle of a turn you risk Trailing Throttle Oversteer. So the ideal technique is: 1) Find your braking point. 2) While locating your turn-in point, brake hard and get down to the gear you want to go into and out of the corner in BEFORE reaching your turn-in point. 3) Smoothly roll off the brake and onto the throttle while locating your apex point. 4) Smoothly roll into the throttle as you accelerate past your apex and through the exit of the turn. When you get it down it almost has a rhythmic dance feel to it. Unless you're driving an 18-wheel big rig, your brakes are the instrument of choice for 99% of the slowing effort heading into a turn. |
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08-07-2007, 08:54 AM | #31 | |
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I know the tap forward, it doesn't seems to slow the car down as much as MT, it's like it's too smooth and rmp's don't drop in between shifts like the will in a MT. Probably a good thing. I'm probably killing my clutch the way I do it. what's really the most important is how you drive and what you like about driving. I'm not a racer or engine moder (other than the chip one day in my future 135i) I'm ADD and like to have more to do while driving. When I changed from AT to a car with MT I felt like I paid more attention to the road, kept me thinking more about driving. |
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08-07-2007, 10:15 AM | #32 |
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You just hit on a subtle but key difference between AT and MT, IMO.
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08-07-2007, 11:58 AM | #33 |
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so are chopsticks (to westerners) but some people still like to use them. so what if it's actually easier to pick up a nori roll with a fork? it's called having fun. got a problem with that too??
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08-07-2007, 12:07 PM | #34 | |
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08-07-2007, 01:08 PM | #35 |
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I currently drive a manual but my car was previously an auto prior to the swap. Prior to driving the 335i, I swore that I would never go back to an auto. Well after driving around in my friend's 335i for awhile I got a little excited about how the auto worked in the car. But I think I would get bored of driving the auto because it does distance you from being in full control of the car. I'm also hearing that theres been talk that the auto may not be able to handle the additional HP and TQ that some of the piggyback systems can produce. For me it will still likely be 6MT although the 335i AT is pretty sweet!
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08-07-2007, 01:15 PM | #36 | |
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She's down with me getting the 135i (manual tranny) over the new STI since she loves BMW's (and would rather be seen in it ). She'll probably take it work occasionally when I ride the cycle in. I have to say I'm thrilled she wants to learn how to drive a manual properly. :thumbup: |
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08-07-2007, 01:21 PM | #37 |
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I hate to think what you make of the wheel.
This is the reason my wife dislikes automatic transmissions. |
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08-07-2007, 02:06 PM | #38 | ||
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it is also true that the clutch is an archaic device in the sense of the future of automotive technology. algorithms that control the powertrain in hybrid vehicles are similar in structure to those that select shift points in automatic transmissions (selecting power source or operating mode based on speed, throttle position, battery state-of-charge etc). and whether or not hybrids are part of "your view" of the future of automotive technology, this type of seamless control of hundreds of resources in a manner transparent to the user for the reason of efficiency, safety, what have you, is apparent in every modern drivetrain. and the more this becomes true the less capable we will be of being able to do so without having that same computer selecting what engine rpm is wants to be at. and these types of control algorithms are what i 'do' but i will be driving with a clutch until they take it away. :drinking:to the wives all about the manual 135! |
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08-07-2007, 02:15 PM | #39 | |
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That's a good one. When I was taught to drive a manual, I had to start the car from a dead standstill and go through all of the gears using ONLY THE CLUTCH. Foot off the accelerator the whole time. Obviously, you need to do this in a loooooong parking lot that is empty, but it does a great job of teaching you how to "feel" the fly wheel engaging. Learning with this technique helps you really get down that ability to "launch" a MT car by feathering just the right amount of clutch out as you roll on the accelerator. You get gobs of acceleration and a sweet engine sound as it revvs up through the rpms under load, but without all the high-revving, clutch dumping heysterics that people who don't know how to properly drive an MT display. |
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08-07-2007, 02:17 PM | #40 |
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For me, the tranny choice is made on the basis of which one will generate the most enjoyment. Sure AT is easier, and may even punch out a faster lap time in the this case. But in real life I spend very little time chasing lap times and much more time bringing a smile to my face downshifting into tight corners or rowing through the gears on an expressway on-ramp.
To each his own, and there is a case to be made for AT, too. But I don't think an AT can ever provide the visceral experience that a MT does. An LCD and a mouse will never replace a canvas and paint....
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08-07-2007, 08:06 PM | #41 |
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The wheel, just like discovering how to make fire were inventions that changed man kind. I don't think I'd put a 6-speed transmission in the same league as the invention of the wheel.
My car is a manual. I like Manuals, but after 19 years of driving manuals I'm ready for a change. The regular automatics appear to be getting close, and the DSG trasmissions are even faster than a manual. I've learned how to left-foot brake and autos provide the perfect platform. I still wouldn't get a Torque-converter type automatic, but a DSG or an effective SMG setup is tempting |
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08-07-2007, 10:18 PM | #42 |
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The DSG and SMG transmissions do not have a torque converter, so they are not technically automatic transmissions, but electro-hydrolicly(sp?) clutched manual trannies.
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08-08-2007, 07:06 AM | #43 | |
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The nice thing with the DSG tranny is they still communicate feel, like a traditional MT. A DSG is the only tranny that I would consider changing to, from a normal MT.
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08-08-2007, 10:09 AM | #44 | |
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I know that. I just wasn't able to state that in the sentence correctly. This is how you break it down: Manumatic = Tiptronic type systems (with Torque Converter) Automanual = SMG, Ferrari's system Not sure how DSG categorizes. I would call the DSG system an Automanual because the system has a clutch (2) that's controlled by a computer. |
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