384 hp / 421 tq: DINAN 135i Tuning

[chemhalo]

Originally Posted by Brandon26pdx

Couple of observations:

3. They forgot to include RWTQ data, which is disappointing because nobody tuning their car in the real world uses flywheel fugures. Everything is measured SAE corrected at the wheels for the hardest and most honest #'s possible.

Its not that hard to figure out the rwtq numbers from what they gave.

The thing that struck me was that from 4.5K to 7K the engine loses 150fwtq. Those little turbos just run out of breath.

[mikeo]

Originally Posted by chemhalo

... The thing that struck me was that from 4.5K to 7K the engine loses 150fwtq. Those little turbos just run out of breath.

IMO, BMW engineers have mapped the ECU to reduce boost in the higher rpm range. I believe the Procede v.2 shows relatively more improvement up top.

[PrematureApex]

Originally Posted by Brandon26pdx

Couple of observations:



2. Peak RWHP up by 46. (296 stock vs. 342 Dinan re-flashed) Lots of increase all across the board however. Peak power is for bragging rights. Power increases throughout the entire rev range, or "area under the curve" is what makes a car fast.

3. They forgot to include RWTQ data, which is disappointing because nobody tuning their car in the real world uses flywheel fugures. Everything is measured SAE corrected at the wheels for the hardest and most honest #'s possible.

First, to be accurate, its "area under the curve" in the RPM's your running in. Hence, in an all out acceleration event, power/torque at 3000 RPM isn't exactly doing you any good if your revs never drop below 4500. It is assumed with decent gearing, you'll be able to stay relatively near your peak power, hence, the figure is useful.

Second, 5252*horsepower/RPM = torque. You have all the torque numbers you want off that graph. You know exactly what the torque gains are, as for a givign RPM, they follow the HP gains.

[chemhalo]

Originally Posted by mikeo

IMO, BMW engineers have mapped the ECU to reduce boost in the higher rpm range. I believe the Procede v.2 shows relatively more improvement up top.

I havent seen a v2 dyno to compare to the dinan #s, but id believe slighty higher numbers at redline if there were. However, dinan only showed slight improvement to stock programming. The turbos are the real limiting factor. The tiny turbos on the 1.8T are the same story. I am waiting for the first upgraded turbo kit for the N54 to be released so we can really see what the engine can do. However, the comments from Dinan about the block not being able to take the torque seems to make such endeavors very risky. But even if the block can only safely support a broad band of 300-350wtq nearing redline this would be a much meaner engine. Id sacrifice 1000rpm of spool for that. The block of the S4s new 3.0 TFSI might provide a distinct modding advantage if its an iron block.

[PrematureApex]

Is the stock exhaust really that free-flowing that adding a full turbo-back isn't helping things that much?

Coming from turbo 4's, opening the exhaust allows for significantly more aggressive tuning and therefore power increases.

It seems that's not the case on this engine.

:iono:

[chemhalo]

Originally Posted by PrematureApex

Is the stock exhaust really that free-flowing that adding a full turbo-back isn't helping things that much?

Coming from turbo 4's, opening the exhaust allows for significantly more aggressive tuning and therefore power increases.

It seems that's not the case on this engine.

:iono:

From reading Dinan's release it looked like they just added a cat-back not a turbo back. Like other turbo motors, the big gains are in the downpipe with smaller gains to be had with a cat-back.

[PrematureApex]

Originally Posted by chemhalo

From reading Dinan's release it looked like they just added a cat-back not a turbo back. Like other turbo motors, the big gains are in the downpipe with smaller gains to be had with a cat-back.

Didn't realize it was just the catback. Thanks!


That kind of numbers are these things putting down with a full TBE?

[mkiiieustyle]

has anyone even looked at the Procede Dyno numbers, dinnan for me is definately not the way to go, a warranty is nice but from what i have read from people having the dinnan flash they had a hard time getting both BMW or Dinnan to cover warranty claims, people are stating that both BMW and Dinnan were pointing the finger at each other and that niether would cover the parts or labour in question heres a link: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ighlight=dinan

Also the 2k price tag on the flash is really, IMHO, not worth it, other tuners like procede have pulled more power (not just peak) from there units and are mch cheaper than $2k, now i'm not knocking people for wanting dinan but really the best bang for your buck your better buying a aftermarket tuner like procede, attache, sstt.

here is a link featuring dinan, procede and attache dyno results see for yourself: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...=dinan+procede

just giving food for thought, like i said i'm not trying to knock people for wanting the dinan flash.:wink:

[BForbes]

Originally Posted by mkiiieustyle

has anyone even looked at the Procede Dyno numbers, dinnan for me is definately not the way to go, a warranty is nice but from what i have read from people having the dinnan flash they had a hard time getting both BMW or Dinnan to cover warranty claims, people are stating that both BMW and Dinnan were pointing the finger at each other and that niether would cover the parts or labour in question heres a link: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ighlight=dinan

Also the 2k price tag on the flash is really, IMHO, not worth it, other tuners like procede have pulled more power (not just peak) from there units and are mch cheaper than $2k, now i'm not knocking people for wanting dinan but really the best bang for your buck your better buying a aftermarket tuner like procede, attache, sstt.

here is a link featuring dinan, procede and attache dyno results see for yourself: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...=dinan+procede

just giving food for thought, like i said i'm not trying to knock people for wanting the dinan flash.:wink:

Thanks for the warning but your preaching to the choir. Go on any forum other than e90post. The creator of the procede is HATED and DESPISED. He has such a bad rep from the STI/EVO community its disgusting. So many cars have blown up b/c of him. I dont trust him. I sent them an email about them coming out with something for the 135i. I never ever got a response back. I dont even own a car that he tunes and I experienced his awful customer service.I will pick the lesser of 2 evils and go with Dinan. Yes the gains are less but they are known for their research and development.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by onehots2k

Thanks for the warning but your preaching to the choir. Go on any forum other than e90post. The creator of the procede is HATED and DESPISED. He has such a bad rep from the STI/EVO community its disgusting. So many cars have blown up b/c of him. I dont trust him. I sent them an email about them coming out with something for the 135i. I never ever got a response back. I dont even own a car that he tunes and I experienced his awful customer service.I will pick the lesser of 2 evils and go with Dinan. Yes the gains are less but they are known for their research and development.

Exactly, I have heard much worse stories from the other tuners. I have two friends with full Dinan packages on their E60's. One of them has used the Dinan warranty, he had no problem getting the items covered. The other friend never gets any issues when he takes his car in for repairs or service, the dealership does all the work no questions asked. Most of the people complaining about Dinan either mix-matched Dinan parts with other tuners parts, which it clearly states in the warranty not to do. Or its driver error that causes the problem, for example a mis-shift causing a blow engine.

[mkiiieustyle]

Originally Posted by slickone

Exactly, I have heard much worse stories from the other tuners. I have two friends with full Dinan packages on their E60's. One of them has used the Dinan warranty, he had no problem getting the items covered. The other friend never gets any issues when he takes his car in for repairs or service, the dealership does all the work no questions asked. Most of the people complaining about Dinan either mix-matched Dinan parts with other tuners parts, which it clearly states in the warranty not to do. Or its driver error that causes the problem, for example a mis-shift causing a blow engine.

i actually haven't heard of any cases in the 3'er world of a engine being blowen due to any tuning either from dinan, attache, procede or sstt, there have been cases of rings on cyl#5+6 being fried from overheating ( lack off oil cooler)....
as far as tuning i wasn't saying that dinan was bad just that there are "cheaper" altenatives that will gain you more power. as far as non dinan parts being added on top of the dinan flash the only thing i have heard is that you shouldn't have the flash plus an sstt or procede because both the motor and turbo's are not upto the boost levels that having both installed create.

there are good's and bad's from all companies, as far as R+D i know for a fact that Shiv put ALOT of time into his products, and it can be showen from his products, he has worked and will work with individual concerns, and has even given certain customers "tweaked versions" of his maps to appease the customer to take care of there concerns, to me that's something i know that dinan would not do, also the procede has been mapped for different individual upgrades like catless DP's and intakes so that you can gain the most from your added performance parts, dinan also does not offer this. as far as warranty procede and others can be just as easily removed as they were installed before taking it to the dealer so really there shouldn't be any warranty issue's if you use your head and take stuff off if you know the dealer is going to look for something.

i actually want to see what BMW bring out as far as performance flashes and bolt ons.

[WhereItsAt]

Originally Posted by onehots2k

Thanks for the warning but your preaching to the choir. Go on any forum other than e90post. The creator of the procede is HATED and DESPISED. He has such a bad rep from the STI/EVO community its disgusting. So many cars have blown up b/c of him. I dont trust him. I sent them an email about them coming out with something for the 135i. I never ever got a response back. I dont even own a car that he tunes and I experienced his awful customer service.I will pick the lesser of 2 evils and go with Dinan. Yes the gains are less but they are known for their research and development.

Your statement is misleading. I've searched the other car forums and there are those that like him (even followed him from the Mitsu/Suba cars to the BMW's) and those that do not. I dare say that you could email Dinan now and not receive an email for quite sometime. Also, he is a very active member on E90 and does help with questions/problems and has really stepped up in the last couple months. Most of the issues have been user error.

I have never owned a Vishnu product, but I've read enough from both camps to know that "nut huggers" from any tuner ruin forums. I think the Dinan tune is a fine tune, just very costly and unlikely one that I would get due to very limiting possibilities (ie. not able to install non-dinan hardware to keep warranty). I would choose PROcede for the tuning ability and because they continue to improve upon the product (more HP/TQ).

Back to my original point, Most of the haters of Vishnu have never owned a product, only a competitor. And most often more than not, the people with the problems are the ones who speak the loudest. Which does not, neccessarily, represent the majority.

If you want to get technical, Vishnu created the tuning for the BMW N54. His original tune was copied by another company, the JB thing was thought up by him and Dinan actually approached him about doing a private lable. Search E90. I've been there for a long time, mostly lurking, recently joined. Odd how a small company can do so much. In reality, that is how the USA is. Small companies keep this place going so damn well - the large ones keep screwing it up!:respekt:

[theslik1]

Originally Posted by mkiiieustyle

there are good's and bad's from all companies, as far as R+D i know for a fact that Shiv put ALOT of time into his products, and it can be showen from his products, he has worked and will work with individual concerns, and has even given certain customers "tweaked versions" of his maps to appease the customer to take care of there concerns, to me that's something i know that dinan would not do, also the procede has been mapped for different individual upgrades like catless DP's and intakes so that you can gain the most from your added performance parts, dinan also does not offer this.

I think the main concerns about Shiv/procede are 1) Shiv has a history, and it doesn't bode well for customer service down the line 2) His current customer service leaves something to be desired, and 3) He's pretty much subverted E90post into Shivpost. You aren't going to get any sustained objective discussion about Shiv over there.

Dinan is pricey and I probably wouldn't go that route, but there are viable alternatives to both Dinan and procede. And I guarantee you that there will be several aftermarket options for upgraded external oil coolers before the year is out. There's too much money on the table for Dinan to maintain exclusivity.

[PrematureApex]

Whats the deal with the "Juicebox". Anyone done any logging with one to see how they run?

[WhereItsAt]

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106746

[larryn]

Originally Posted by WhereItsAt

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106746

Holy cow.. that looks pretty junky. :wink:

[Dave]

i am def. going to wait this one out...at least till 4 years after free maint is over

good reads

shiv is a great guy and everyone in this industry has a tuff start esp tuners
but i think he will iron his customer service issues

[larryn]

I'd prefer the JB2 over that happymeal tune.

Here's another fully post, where a Dinan rep posted a thread to try to prevent people from installing a piggyback tune on top of the Dinan reflash.

Hard to believe there are people that stupid out there.

[Evolved]

Originally Posted by WhereItsAt

Your statement is misleading. I've searched the other car forums and there are those that like him (even followed him from the Mitsu/Suba cars to the BMW's) and those that do not. I dare say that you could email Dinan now and not receive an email for quite sometime. Also, he is a very active member on E90 and does help with questions/problems and has really stepped up in the last couple months. Most of the issues have been user error.

I have never owned a Vishnu product, but I've read enough from both camps to know that "nut huggers" from any tuner ruin forums. I think the Dinan tune is a fine tune, just very costly and unlikely one that I would get due to very limiting possibilities (ie. not able to install non-dinan hardware to keep warranty). I would choose PROcede for the tuning ability and because they continue to improve upon the product (more HP/TQ).

Back to my original point, Most of the haters of Vishnu have never owned a product, only a competitor. And most often more than not, the people with the problems are the ones who speak the loudest. Which does not, neccessarily, represent the majority.

If you want to get technical, Vishnu created the tuning for the BMW N54. His original tune was copied by another company, the JB thing was thought up by him and Dinan actually approached him about doing a private lable. Search E90. I've been there for a long time, mostly lurking, recently joined. Odd how a small company can do so much. In reality, that is how the USA is. Small companies keep this place going so damn well - the large ones keep screwing it up!:respekt:

Shiv jumps from car to car and leaves everyone else behind. First it was the Subaru crowd, then over to the Evo boards. Left the Evo guys for the Mazdaspeed3. Briefly tried to get involved with Mini and made all types of claims but was never able to crack the ECU and left the market. Now he's on to BMW's, for the time being. That's his history and that's why people in the know are skeptical.

[WhereItsAt]

Originally Posted by larryn

Holy cow.. it's obvious whose camp you're in regarding the tuner wars. :wink:

The JB IS a resistor based method for increasing the boost. And it can be made by an enduser. Hence the link.

No side here. :iono: Like I have said I don't own, or have ever owned any car that Vishnu could tune. But I don't care for non-tune tunes, if that makes sense. I don't expect every tuner to care for the next tuner that is why I highly recommend that this sight have subforums for each tune/sponsor. That quickly stomps out the dribble - for the most part anyway. Vishnu does post a lot on e90 and his posts are/can be very informative, that is why I linked it.

[WhereItsAt]

Originally Posted by Evolved

Shiv jumps from car to car and leaves everyone else behind. First it was the Subaru crowd, then over to the Evo boards. Left the Evo guys for the Mazdaspeed3. Briefly tried to get involved with Mini and made all types of claims but was never able to crack the ECU and left the market. Now he's on to BMW's, for the time being. That's his history and that's why people in the know are skeptical.

Wouldn't that be business? When a market matures and competition is a plenty you move on to more lucrative markets. If the unit sells dwindled to an amount that makes it financially impossible to do more RD or the product has reached its full potential wouldn't you leave.

Again, I have had no experience with him/vishnu. If you have, please let us know so that we can all learn from your experiences. As far as I can tell, the majority of the people using his PROcede for the N54 like it, scratch that, love it. I don't want this to become a pissing contest for tuners and letting people now facts is the upmost importance, but spreading innuendos and rumor is not beneficial. The best thing for anyone to do is search. I have searched on many sites (BMW specific and other car forums as well) and the Vishnu tunes are pretty damn solid. So are other tunes. I think Dinan is a good tune and does offer a very appealing product. It won't appeal to everyone.

OP, sorry for getting off topic - way off topic. If I offended anyone, sorry for that too. I'm out.:wub:

[E82tt6]

For Comparison, it seems that Procede V2+ a few other basic mods is good for an almost 100 RWHP gain.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107055

Personally, I'll probably be using Helix Bimmersport, as they're withing spitting distance of me, and it's always nice to get custom tuning done.

Here's a thread with some Helix numbers:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=592

The FMIC+Tuning car was up close to 100, just about identical to the Procede V2 car with FMIC, DPs, Intake, and water injection. I believe that was a custom tune done at their facility, so it isn't super fair to compare to an off-the-shelf tune, but still pretty impressive, IMO.