To the guys with re flashes and tunes

[MrRoboto]

Well. After a bit of reading I think SSTT really is the best route to go. 'Safe' gains and easily removeable. Sign me up.

[adc]

The only problem I see with the Dinan warranty is that it's only 4 years. And having the Dinan reflash installed prevents the car from becoming CPO.

I'm waiting for the Shark Injector.

[mikeo]

Originally Posted by 0002s

... Dinan's warranty is only as good as Dinan's honoring it. Since Dinan Stage One is pretty much the same as SSTT and JB1 gains it's also relatively safe to run. It's the $2500 part that doesn't add up for the power gains. ...

According to Dinan's site there are now two levels of engine software for the 135, Stage 1 being 'only' $1500 for 366 hp, 379 ft/lb (at the crank). Not for MSD v81 DME yet though.

[gio]

Originally Posted by mikeo

According to Dinan's site there are now two levels of engine software for the 135, Stage 1 being 'only' $1500 for 366 hp, 379 ft/lb (at the crank). Not for MSD v81 DME yet though.

I noticed Dinan's site said "49 state emission legal". What is the one state where it is not legal?

[reedo302]

Originally Posted by JuggernautTCW

when you actually blow your turbo or motor, whos to say Dinan wont argue that its BMW's fault?... Once that happens, Dinan blames BMW and BMW blames Dinan... guess whos the loser of the battle? you...

Per Dinan, all quarrels will be handled between Dinan and BMW, and the customer will be taken care of first. This was told to me over the phone directly by Dinan. Dinan will not charge the customer and BMW won't either. Dinan will take care of you and then go after BMW to reimburse if necessary.

Originally Posted by 0002s

Dinan warranty is NOT BMW warranty. If you have an Dinan issue you will have Dinan pay. Dinan will claim it's BMW's fault and BMW will claim it's Dinan's fault.

The part of Dinan that gives people a "warm fuzzy" is that the dealer installs it. The dealer is NOT BMW. They are private business. BMW can still void your power train warranty with Dinan tune.

Dinan's warranty is only as good as Dinan's honoring it. Since Dinan Stage One is pretty much the same as SSTT and JB1 gains it's also relatively safe to run. It's the $2500 part that doesn't add up for the power gains.

The thing that you forget to mention is that a good dealership that sells and installs Dinan will do the work and handle the billing to Dinan or BMW on the side. They do all the warranty work, and bill accordingly. The dealership is the middle-man. That's why people think Dinan warranties are BMW warranties. As long as you're car's getting fixed by the dealership, who cares? A good dealership will make sure that you get taken care of first, and will know that if it's someone's fault other than yours-i.e. Dinan or BMW-they'll go after them after they get you back on the road.

[reedo302]

Originally Posted by gio

I noticed Dinan's site said "49 state emission legal". What is the one state where it is not legal?

California. Where else...? :smile:

[///M ichael]

Why dont we have Dinan in Europe??

[MrRoboto]

My sales manager was the guy who said that a software tune realy livens the car up. I wish I had him on tape.

[Red135]

Originally Posted by MrRoboto

I guess I need to do some more research. Is their much difference between JB and SSTT?

The SSTT is more comparable to the JB2.

[Heinzftw]

Originally Posted by ///M ichael

Why dont we have Dinan in Europe??

You have Hartge so be happy! :wink:

[0002s]

Originally Posted by mikeo

According to Dinan's site there are now two levels of engine software for the 135, Stage 1 being 'only' $1500 for 366 hp, 379 ft/lb (at the crank). Not for MSD v81 DME yet though.

Typo....LOL

[0002s]

Originally Posted by reedo302

Per Dinan, all quarrels will be handled between Dinan and BMW, and the customer will be taken care of first. This was told to me over the phone directly by Dinan. Dinan will not charge the customer and BMW won't either. Dinan will take care of you and then go after BMW to reimburse if necessary.


The thing that you forget to mention is that a good dealership that sells and installs Dinan will do the work and handle the billing to Dinan or BMW on the side. They do all the warranty work, and bill accordingly. The dealership is the middle-man. That's why people think Dinan warranties are BMW warranties. As long as you're car's getting fixed by the dealership, who cares? A good dealership will make sure that you get taken care of first, and will know that if it's someones fault other than yours-i.e. Dinan or BMW-they'll go after them after they get you back on the road.

AHHH...that's were the "rub" comes in. The ECU is going to log all boost and fuel target data that is out of acceptable margins set by BMW. That might be brought up to the customer out of hand or nothing will be said unless something breaks on the car and then they will pull the FASTA data file off the ISIS computer and say no dice to warranty repair. There is a reason that DINAN doesn't work with DME v81.....:wink: BMW doesn't want it to work with it.

The dealer can't sneak something by because all your ECU data is sent to Germany every time you plug your computer in. If something breaks, BMW EUROPE says what they will and won't fix. Average Joe "nice guy" Dealer doesn't approve warranty work...BMW does.

In the case of DINAN, BMW knows that your car has been modified and is going to say NO. DINAN now will have to honor the warranty. They should honor the warranty...ONLY IF what is under question in their fault. BMW can literally say no to anything wrong with your power train warranty because you modified it. DINAN will say no if it's not their fault.

-YOU LOSE if this happens. The chances of the above happening are slim with tune only. Stage 1 is a mild tune. The chances increase greatly once you move up in Stages or add additions of exhaust or DP's.

[0002s]

Works like this:

The FASTA function assures that vehicle operation and service data from the diagnostic
and programming devices are sent to BMW

[gargoyal]

Originally Posted by 0002s

In the case of DINAN, BMW knows that your car has been modified and is going to say NO. DINAN now will have to honor the warranty. They should honor the warranty...ONLY IF what is under question in their fault. BMW can literally say no to anything wrong with your power train warranty because you modified it. DINAN will say no if it's not their fault.

-YOU LOSE if this happens. The chances of the above happening are slim with tune only. Stage 1 is a mild tune. The chances increase greatly once you move up in Stages or add additions of exhaust or DP's.

This is miss information. Know your rights or don't mod cars under warranty. BMW can’t void the power train warranty because you did a mod. That is against the law. Warranties are regulated by the state AND the federal government (DINAN's warranty is regulated also) Could BMW and the dealers try to push the envelope? yes. But, they rarely will if you know your rights. The penalties for breaking the warranty laws are much higher than fixing a few cars.

Know the basics of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. Knowledge is power.

Here is a good starting place if you run into issues:

http://www.semasan.com/main/main.aspx?id=60128


BTW I am getting a DINAN flash. I don’t care if BMW knows. I also know that adding non DINAN parts may create boost spikes that DINAN did not anticipate. If I blow my engine, I’ll take responsibility.

I think people who try to hide their mods when they really caused the issues are just as bad as a-hole dealer and manufactures who lie about their responsibilities.

[0002s]

Originally Posted by gargoyal

This is miss information. Know your rights or don't mod cars under warranty. BMW can’t void the power train warranty because you did a mod. That is against the law. Warranties are regulated by the state AND the federal government (DINAN's warranty is regulated also) Could BMW and the dealers try to push the envelope? yes. But, they rarely will if you know your rights. The penalties for breaking the warranty laws are much higher than fixing a few cars.

Know the basics of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. Knowledge is power.

SERIOUSLY.....you have no BMW power train warranty once you tune Dinan...hence why Dinan says they have a warranty. (btw...I'm talking about motor, turbo, wastegate here...not spark plug going bad w/Dinan)

If Dinan thinks that the problem is BMW they are going to deny as well. You now have to get a lawyer and fight it out between the two.

I am well aware that they can't deny your power train warranty because of an air filer or exhaust or golf tee mod. We are talking about adding auxiliary ECU management. This will CLEARLY void your BMW power train warranty.


fwiw....Dinan has many examples of them picking up the tab for issues related to failures on their part. A Stage 1 tune shouldn't cause and issue on any N54. It's a mild tune. It's pretty costly for the gains though...jm2c The real issue that could cause the above is when you would use other aftermarket parts (DP's / cat back) w/Dinan tune and had issues. Dinan is a stand up company when it comes to warranty work from what I've read.


Also...BMW doesn't really "void" a warranty. You get red flagged in the system and warranty issues related to the mods/issue that is logged into the system will be denied at the dealer (national dealer network is linked). There are many examples of denied warranties that are reinstated after the owner of the car reverts back to stock and has it checked out by BMWNA.

[damian]

BMW still has to be able to show that the mod caused the damage in question. That is the law. There can be no simple blanket voiding of the warranty.

[gargoyal]

Originally Posted by 0002s

SERIOUSLY.....


Please put DPs, a ECU tune and cat back exhaust and bring your copy of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act with you to dry your tears as they tell you that you are shit ass out of luck and need to pay for the damages to your drive train....wrong info my ass. There is at least 3 resent denials of warranties on e90 for the exact same thing.

2 of them were able to get their warranties back after they agreed to take the car back to stock on their dime.


I am well aware that they can't deny your power train warranty because of an air filer or exhaust or golf tee mod here. We are talking about adding auxillary ECU management and installing larger piping. This will CLEARLY void your warranty.

If you blow your engine because of a boost spike when you added boost, IT IS YOUR FAULT!!!! Deal with. There is no such thing as voiding a warranty though. That is illegally. If something breaks because of a mod they can deny the claim NOT void the warranty. BMW was not doing them a favor by “giving them their warranty back”, BMW was following the law! Sucks to be the one guy who didn’t force the issue. And no, you don’t have to remove your down pipe to get them to honor a transmission problem.

When you play with boost (which the tunes do) you take on a lot of responsibility. Anything that boost levels out of spec can legitimately break is now on your dime. NOT THE WHOLE POWER TRAIN!!!!

Beyond that they still have to honor service bulletins. A perfect example was the waste gate issues on the early 335is. Since there was a pattern of failure BMW had to honor the fix regardless of the tunes, even though boost could cause waste gate issues. When people forced the issue they honored it. Because it is the law!!

Know your rights and responsibilities or don’t tune new cars. Instead of wining about being at the mercy of BMW and the dealers, empower people with knowledge.

[0002s]

Originally Posted by damian

BMW still has to be able to show that the mod caused the damage in question. That is the law. There can be no simple blanket voiding of the warranty.

Sure....and you have to prove they are wrong.

You have a Dinan (anybodies) tune and you blow your turbo. BMW is going to show that their turbo's specs were "X" and you went "Y". You are going to have to prove them wrong. Dinan "should" pick up the warranty and you'd be screwed with "any old" tune.

Now lets say you had Dinan and DP's (somebodies aftermarket)

1. BMW say NO
2. Dinan "may" say NO but will probably pick up what they think is tune related
3. Anything motor that Dinan says is non tune related w/the powertrain issue is NO.

Tunes raise boost and alter the original design of the car with respects to spec. Mag-Moss gives owner protection...LOTS OF PROTECTION, but the Manufacture also has protection when the modification clearly exceeds the intended spec of the part.



But don't believe me and put a tune or DP's or Cat Back and on your car and go in for service without removal. Now...you blow a motor or turbo or...??? and go back to BMW and watch what happens.

OR...search e90 for real world experiances of what does happen.

ps...bring your Mag-Moss papers with you to wipe your tears as they say NO.......

[0002s]

Originally Posted by gargoyal

If you blow your engine because of a boost spike when you added boost, IT IS YOUR FAULT!!!! Deal with. There is no such thing as voiding a warranty though. That is illegally. If something breaks because of a mod they can deny the claim NOT void the warranty. BMW was not doing them a favor by “giving them their warranty back”, BMW was following the law! Sucks to be the one guy who didn’t force the issue. And no, you don’t have to remove your down pipe to get them to honor a transmission problem.

When you play with boost (which the tunes do) you take on a lot of responsibility. Anything that boost levels out of spec can legitimately break is now on your dime. NOT THE WHOLE POWER TRAIN!!!!

Beyond that they still have to honor service bulletins. A perfect example was the waste gate issues on the early 335is. Since there was a pattern of failure BMW had to honor the fix regardless of the tunes, even though boost could cause waste gate issues. When people forced the issue they honored it. Because it is the law!!

Know your rights and responsibilities or don’t tune new cars. Instead of wining about being at the mercy of BMW and the dealers, empower people with knowledge.

WOW ...you didn't read the last part of my "void" statement...:iono: Deny is a better word than void. You are right the BMW cannot just "void". But I can promise you they will deny and will get away with it Mag-Moss be damned if you get caught.

I am not wining But saying that Dinan will pick up all were BMW leaves off is PLAIN WRONG. There are many instances where one could get caught in the middle of BMW v Dinan.

There were many issues of the 335i wastegates honored. I also read a few where they weren't. Most of those had to do with turbo failures and wastegates combined.

I have never alluded to DP's = Trans warranty denials....Sorry but I not saying anything close to this. More to the point I've clearly said they can't. But if you leave your DP's on your car and go to service the FASTA system will be updated and you will be flagged for anything else related to engine issues that DP's could cause. e90 is full of post with similar examples of this happening. 2 resent ones that both resulted in flagging and then reinstating after owner went back to stock.

[mikeo]

Well, here's a real-life story: Guy in Albuquerque had a 335 with JB2H, CP-e BOV, and IIRC, BMs intake. The dealer new about some or all of these mods. Then this happened:

Compressor-side failure and lots of nasty metal ingested into the engine.

Result: blown engine warranty denied by BMW, out-of-pocket cost to car owner to replace engine--$26,000. Ouch!

Talk about play-to-play!

[0002s]

Originally Posted by mikeo

Well, here's a real-life story: Guy in Albuquerque had a 335 with JB2H, BOV, and IIRC, BMS intake. The dealer new about some or all of these mods. Then this happened

Compressor-side failure and lots of nasty metal ingested intot the engine.

Result: blown engine warranty denied by BMW, out-of-pocket cost to car owner to replace engine--$26,000. Ouch!

Talk about play-to-paly!

He was leasing too.....

I read his post, he was taking responsibility for it ... props to him.

[gargoyal]

Originally Posted by 0002s

WOW ...you didn't read the last part of my "void" statement...:iono: Deny is a better word than void. You are right the BMW cannot just "void". But I can promise you they will deny and will get away with it Mag-Moss be damned if you get caught.

I am not wining But saying that Dinan will pick up all were BMW leaves off is PLAIN WRONG. There are many instances where one could get caught in the middle of BMW v Dinan.

There were many issues of the 335i wastegates honored. I also read a few where they weren't. Most of those had to do with turbo failures and wastegates combined.

I have never alluded to DP's = Trans warranty denials....Sorry but I not saying anything close to this. More to the point I've clearly said they can't. But if you leave your DP's on your car and go to service the FASTA system will be updated and you will be flagged for anything else related to engine issues that DP's could cause. e90 is full of post with similar examples of this happening. 2 resent ones that both resulted in flagging and then reinstating after owner went back to stock.

You are right I did not see your edited post that came an hour later. I am at work and doing other stuff, so I quoted your earlier version that was incorrect.

It's nice to see you are now agreeing with me and are quoting facts now.

BTW most definitions of power train includes a lot more than just the engine and the parts effected by boost levels. I am glad to see you updated that earlier post to be more accurate also.