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[N55_BBM]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

As you've said, it doesn't snow very much in PA so why not get a more performance oriented tire? The Dunlops are just that and still do extremely well in the white stuff. I don't know how many more people you need to hear a positive review from before you're satisfied. Most of us went with the Dunlops which is usually a good sign but neither of those choices will leave you stranded. Our cars are performance cars so go with the performance tire. The difference is less than $70 between the cheaper Blizzaks and the Dunlops which is an average dinner out. You drive a ~$40k car and you're hemming and hawing this much over $70? You're not choosing baby names here... just pull the damn trigger already!

Also, the 45s will not rub. By my calculation the difference is 1.125cm in diameter which is nothing.

lol well said I guess.

But.. my credit card cycle closes on the 2nd so I'm only placing the order on the 3rd, might as well do research and stir up as much discussion as I can haha

In case you haven't understood yet, I'm thoroughly convinced that the Dunlops are a GREAT tire and that I'll be happy with them, I'm not arguing about that anymore and don't need more input as far as those tires are concerned. What I'm trying to get is input from people who have driven on these Blizzak LM-60s, which are also performance driven winter tires. The fact that the Dunlops are great doesn't mean that these Blizzaks can't be as great or even better, and if I can get something just as good or better for be it $70 less, then what the heck, why not? More money for my performance exhaust fund..

[KingOfJericho]

It's the only part of the car that touches the road... splurge a little.

[thez99]

Sorry, but I dont bank on PA or any part of NE typically getting not as much or less snow than others. I go with the snow tire that performs very well IN SNOW AND ICE. Yes its a performance car but that doesnt mean at all that you need a "performance" snow tire, honestly that doesnt even make sense to me. I get a snowy that will plow thru snow and have great traction and also has a thicker sidewall and slimmer section to create more grab in those conditions, I stick with a 17" thicker snowy thats less expensive like the generals and they will perform wonderfully because I dont plan on driving my $40k car like a crazy ass in freezing temps with snow and ice anyways. Plus, check out the dry performance surveys of all these tires, all pretty much the same, not the best but not bad either for winter compound tires, all I think of when I hear "performance" snow tires is that its more towards an all season which I will never use to replace a real snow tire. End/

P.S. Lastly, I really cant stand seeing these random posts from people saying well you bought this expensive car, you might as well get the more expensive shit for it in the end cuz I guess you must have more money blah blah. No I dont have more money, im on the lower end, so Ill look for the best route at the cheaper cost if at all possible, thats not saying im trying to cheat my car out of a good tire, im just trying not to be broke and manage a well performing snow tire at the same time which ive always had good results with the 3 other cars I used this buying method on

[N55_BBM]

So here's an interesting thread I found at bimmerfest comparing the Blizzak LM-60 to the Dunlop Winter Sport 3D:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho....php?p=4523400

In a nutshell, it seems that the Blizzak will give me better snow/ice performance and will have a very slight disadvantage in dry conditions. I do 90% highway driving always at 55-80mph and will keep doing it during the winter at that same speed knowing me. So I do need dry performance. But it's also not like I'm going to be driving my car around as if I were in a track, so maybe the Blizzaks could be better for me due to its advantage in the snow/ice?

I have plenty of experience driving in the dry (I was born and raised in Brazil), but have only been driving in the snow every since I moved to PA, 3.5 years ago... So given that logic, it might make sense that I'd need to rely more on the tire when it's snowy rather than when it's dry.. which would steer me towards the Blizzaks by what I've read..

Anyway aghh we're over discussing this haha! But I hope you see why I just didn't decide to go with the Dunlops right away.. it seems that there are indeed advantages to the blizzak..

[thez99]

Honestly man, keep the "dry performance" idea out of your head when it comes to good snow tires. TRUE snow tires are not going to perform like performance summer tires on dry roads above 40 degrees unless they are of a diff compound or allseasons which are no good for real snow anyhow. Just get the best rated tire you can find hopefully not too expensive, i recommend the generals again but everyone seems to be hell bent on only the blizzaks and dunlops which im sure are fine but are also alot more money and have that "performance" tag on them which only sets me uneasy about really how well they would perform in decent snow. I drive my car like a regular car during the winter time anyways, its fuckin freezing with ice, snow, etc. never plan on driving like a bat outta hell or anything, so I shop more for a SNOW and ICE oriented tire rather than one thatll have a teeny bit more performance on a dry road. Trust me, all snow tires handle just fine on dry roads, not much difference unless you really push them which you shouldnt with any snow tire anyhow.

Just keep saying this to urself, its a SNOW TIRE, not a SUMMER TIRE. Looking for completely different things here =D

[KingOfJericho]

The bottom line here is that even in New England, the roads are only covered with snow for MAYBE 5-7 days for the whole winter which leaves you with 4-5 months of dry or sandy roads. You recommend finding a tire that has a *slight* advantage on those 5-7 days over one with an advantage on the other 115-140 days? That seems pretty silly. Like the people who "need" AWD on Long Island. Isn't that like wearing a raincoat to work every day because it rains 20 days a year? You will get to work just fine on a snowy day on either tire but the vast majority of your winter will be spent on perfectly dry roads where the Blizzak tire has a disadvantage.

[thez99]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

The bottom line here is that even in New England, the roads are only covered with snow for MAYBE 5-7 days for the whole winter which leaves you with 4-5 months of dry or sandy roads. You recommend finding a tire that has a *slight* advantage on those 5-7 days over one with an advantage on the other 115-140 days? That seems pretty silly. Like the people who "need" AWD on Long Island. Isn't that like wearing a raincoat to work every day because it rains 20 days a year? You will get to work just fine on a snowy day on either tire but the vast majority of your winter will be spent on perfectly dry roads where the Blizzak tire has a disadvantage.

Nah, I bank on it snowing more than that, and even if its not all crazy amounts of snow, gotta realize theres loads of ice accumulating, rainstorms that turn to ice, tuns of shit on the road, not gonna be doing lots of fast crazy dry driving regardless of your 5-7 snow day notion. If I was in texas itd be a whole new ballgame, but im not, so id rather buy a SNOW tire, not something in between, there is no such thing as a tire that performs very well on dry roads with handling, etc. AND performs very well in thick snow and ice, etc. just isnt possible, theyre different rubber compounds. If you go with both, thats an allseason, which is still not going to outperform an actual snow tire, period.

[KingOfJericho]

Thick snow is prohibitive for our cars anyway due to the ride height. I am only giving my recommendation from living in New England for 29 years, 4 of which were in New Hampshire and I have yet to ever be stranded, even without snow tires, and I have a job where I absolutely must be at my desk come hell or high water. Maybe it's the 13 years of snow driving experience but I really think you guys are overthinking it. Just buy ANY snow tire and be done with it. It's not worth all of this arguing or even the thread starting as you'd be hard pressed to notice any MAJOR deficiency in any of the tires listed above and you know what they say about opinions...

[cvandenhaute]

While I am reading this post, my wife just skyped me that my new Dunlop SP3D I ordered from the Tirerack yesterday just arrived, I will mount them by the end of october to keep my baby safe in the harsch chicagoland winter (fortunately roads are well plowed here and I hope not to try too hard the ice and snow behavior of the tires in extreme conditions)...

[thez99]

I was actually just comparing tires on TR and the Blizzak WS60's are right around the same in snow and ice performance as well as other specs as the Generals i mentioned earlier, and they are actually on closeout pricing right now, so only 5 bucks more a tire! May consider these also depending on how long that closeout price goes

[EAS]

A few of our customers have ordered the Dunlop Wintersport 3D for this winter with their VMR wheels, so it seems like it is a popular choice for winter tires

[N55_BBM]

Originally Posted by david @ eas

A few of our customers have ordered the Dunlop Wintersport 3D for this winter with their VMR wheels, so it seems like it is a popular choice for winter tires

what wheels have people been ordering for the winter out of curiosity?!

[Gary@TireRack]

Originally Posted by brunobm

what wheels have people been ordering for the winter out of curiosity?!

Everyone has a different taste in wheels. The Elbrus wheel line has been very popular for 1 series owners. Reasonable price, stylish, and they take the BMW center caps.

[Xaeryan]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

The bottom line here is that even in New England, the roads are only covered with snow for MAYBE 5-7 days for the whole winter which leaves you with 4-5 months of dry or sandy roads. You recommend finding a tire that has a *slight* advantage on those 5-7 days over one with an advantage on the other 115-140 days?

I understand your point, but think your argument needs to be modified a bit... Those other 115-140 days you are driving in the dry you aren't going to be exploring your limits if you're on snow tires unless you're in an emergency situation. Every single one of those 5-7 snow days you drive in you're going to be exploring the limits of traction. So your comparison should be, do you give up some dry traction at the limit for those few emergency situations you might encounter, or some snow traction for those 5-7 days of snow where you will be constantly exploring traction limits? (And 5-7 days of snow would be a VERY mild winter, at least for where I am in PA.)
With that being said, I'm sure most snow tires are plenty competent; I've had Coopers and Blizzaks in the past and both were awesome in the snow. I'd be hard pressed to say one was better than the other (a sentiment echoed by Gill with the Dunlops vs Blizzaks). Just my .02, take no offense.

[EAS]

Originally Posted by brunobm

what wheels have people been ordering for the winter out of curiosity?!

Our customers have been purchasing Matte Black VMR wheels for their winter setups

[thez99]

Originally Posted by david @ eas

Our customers have been purchasing Matte Black VMR wheels for their winter setups

Wtf??

People buy custom finish vmr wheels for their winter setup???

Seems pretty stupid to me? Save those nice wheels for summer n get a beater set for winter.

[EAS]

Originally Posted by thez99

Wtf??

People buy custom finish vmr wheels for their winter setup???

Seems pretty stupid to me? Save those nice wheels for summer n get a beater set for winter.

Matte Black is a standard finish that we exclusively offer

[thez99]

Originally Posted by david @ eas

Matte Black is a standard finish that we exclusively offer

Yes i know, i just cant see spending that much on winter wheels that are just gonna get messed up n probably scratched n mucked all the hell with salt n crap from the road. The $375 i spent on used wheels for my winter setup i even feel was a little much.

[N55_BBM]

Originally Posted by Xaeryan

I understand your point, but think your argument needs to be modified a bit... Those other 115-140 days you are driving in the dry you aren't going to be exploring your limits if you're on snow tires unless you're in an emergency situation. Every single one of those 5-7 snow days you drive in you're going to be exploring the limits of traction. So your comparison should be, do you give up some dry traction at the limit for those few emergency situations you might encounter, or some snow traction for those 5-7 days of snow where you will be constantly exploring traction limits? (And 5-7 days of snow would be a VERY mild winter, at least for where I am in PA.)
With that being said, I'm sure most snow tires are plenty competent; I've had Coopers and Blizzaks in the past and both were awesome in the snow. I'd be hard pressed to say one was better than the other (a sentiment echoed by Gill with the Dunlops vs Blizzaks). Just my .02, take no offense.

Well said, this is what I meant. The fact that reviews on these two tires everywhere seem to say that they are very very very alike implies that they only differ when pushed to the extreme, with the Blizzak having a slight advantage on snow/ice and the Dunlop on dry. In order to reach this threshold of "extremeness" in the dry, I feel like it would take hardcore, imprudent driving, especially since 90% of my driving is on highways that are usually congested. In counterpart, driving on snow/ice is extreme in itself, and it's very easy to push the car to that threshold where the Blizzak might have an advantage. If you look at it that way, then the Blizzak would be the better option if you ask me.


Gill -- sorry to bother you again, but here's another question for you. I understand that the LM-60 is a relatively new tire compared to the Dunlop Winter Sport 3D, but have you been able to notice a difference in tread wear/durability between both? I've read that the Dunlop is supposed to last longer, but I don't know how accurate that statement would be given that the LM-60 (correct me if I'm wrong) was only released like a year ago.

[N55_BBM]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

Thick snow is prohibitive for our cars anyway due to the ride height. I am only giving my recommendation from living in New England for 29 years, 4 of which were in New Hampshire and I have yet to ever be stranded, even without snow tires, and I have a job where I absolutely must be at my desk come hell or high water. Maybe it's the 13 years of snow driving experience but I really think you guys are overthinking it. Just buy ANY snow tire and be done with it. It's not worth all of this arguing or even the thread starting as you'd be hard pressed to notice any MAJOR deficiency in any of the tires listed above and you know what they say about opinions...

+1. I might be wrong in my analysis but:

17" wheels = radius of 21.6 cm. Tire wall of a 205/50 tire = 10.3cm. Total ride height = 31.9cm (12.56in)

18" wheels = radius of 22.9cm. Tire wall of a 225/40 tire = 9cm. Total ride height = 31.9cm (12.56in)

Your front bumper will still limit your driving at the same point with either setup. The difference is that your wheels are more protected with the 17". And yes, I realize I'm not taking the fact that 205 tires plow through snow better into consideration, this is just to show that once it snows a certain amount, you won't be able to get around with either setup because of how low the 135 is.

[thez99]

Check out the WS60's too man, better rated on everything and cheaper.

[thez99]

Originally Posted by brunobm

+1. I might be wrong in my analysis but:

17" wheels = radius of 21.6 cm. Tire wall of a 205/50 tire = 10.3cm. Total ride height = 31.9cm (12.56in)

18" wheels = radius of 22.9cm. Tire wall of a 225/40 tire = 9cm. Total ride height = 31.9cm (12.56in)

Your front bumper will still limit your driving at the same point with either setup. The difference is that your wheels are more protected with the 17". And yes, I realize I'm not taking the fact that 205 tires plow through snow better into consideration, this is just to show that once it snows a certain amount, you won't be able to get around with either setup because of how low the 135 is.

Ya 17's over 18's wont matter as far as height is concerned. Its more over how much thicker and shallower the tire is making for better traction and handling in the snow. That and 18" snow tires are more expensive than 17s