M1 vs competition

[Spartikus]

Originally Posted by ///Mangler

So now a figure 8 is the benchmark for laptimes?

Give it a rest? So you would rather discuss quads or no quads?

T

1.) I dont find that site you linked credible.

Chevy said the Camaro would do 8:20 around the 'Ring. It is a fact that the Mustang GT outhandles and is faster. Its not going to do slower than 8:20

2.) Who said it was a benchmark. The figure 8 is a track and a very decent one nonetheless. You said they aren't in the same ballpark. Why would a 2011 GT beat or match an M3 anywhere if they weren't on/near the same level. Please answer this. You should choose your words more carefully.

So by your school of thought a Lotus Elise dosen't handle because it doesn't master the ring. Haha

[BForbes]

Originally Posted by ///Mangler

508.71 seconds.

T

Once again, that does not say 2011 Ford Mustang GT. There is not any ring times for that car yet. I'll stick to my various tracks for now that prove it has matched the M3 or came very close.

[///Mangler]

Originally Posted by BForbes

Once again, that does not say 2011 Ford Mustang GT. There is not any ring times for that car yet. I'll stick to my various tracks for now that prove it has matched the M3 or came very close.

well you haven't posted a single time for the Mustang yet on any track?

T

[BForbes]

Originally Posted by ///Mangler

well you haven't posted a single time for the Mustang yet on any track?

T

M/T Figure 8- Mustang GT-24.7 sec

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...t_numbers.html


M/T Figure 8- BMW M3- 24.8 sec

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...fications.html

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...est/index.html

These cars should not be close on any track/course whatsoever if they dont produce similar numbers.

The fastest M3 to clear M/T's testing was 24.4sec and it was a DCT equipped car. I've not seen testing of the 6speed automatic and Ford does not offer a DCT in this car. It should be noted that the Mustang GT also beat the GT500KR(25.2sec) at the Figure 8 quite handily. The same GT500KR that finished next to the M3 and Virginia International Raceway.

Ironically, the fastest car to go through the figure 8 was a 08 Porsche 911 GT2.

[///Mangler]

Originally Posted by BForbes

M/T Figure 8- Mustang GT-24.7 sec

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...t_numbers.html


M/T Figure 8- BMW M3- 24.8 sec

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...fications.html

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...est/index.html

These cars should not be close on any track/course whatsoever if they dont produce similar numbers.

The fastest M3 to clear M/T's testing was 24.4sec and it was a DCT equipped car. I've not seen testing of the 6speed automatic and Ford does not offer a DCT in this car. It should be noted that the Mustang GT also beat the GT500KR(25.2sec) at the Figure 8 quite handily. The same GT500KR that finished next to the M3 and Virginia International Raceway.

Ironically, the fastest car to go through the figure 8 was a 08 Porsche 911 GT2.

Again the figure 8 is not a track. It has no dynamics or flow. It's about as valuable as a skid pad.

Find some road course track numbers that are longer than an autocross course. Hell, at the Performance center on their 1.25 mile "autocross" track I posted times only 5sec off an E90M3 with Mike Rehner behind the wheel in my stock 2.3l 1988 M3. Are we saying that my 88M3 is in the E92M3 class?

We have to get real world numbers from real world road course tracks if you want to compare what you are arguing, that the 2011 Mustang GT is as good a track car as the E92 M3. Its not and never will be. They are built for different disciplines.

T

[Spartikus]

Originally Posted by ///Mangler

Again the figure 8 is not a track. It has no dynamics or flow. It's about as valuable as a skid pad.

Find some road course track numbers that are longer than an autocross course. Hell, at the Performance center on their 1.25 mile "autocross" track I posted times only 5sec off an E90M3 with Mike Rehner behind the wheel in my stock 2.3l 1988 M3. Are we saying that my 88M3 is in the E92M3 class?

We have to get real world numbers from real world road course tracks if you want to compare what you are arguing, that the 2011 Mustang GT is as good a track car as the E92 M3. Its not and never will be. They are built for different disciplines.

T

It is a measurement of handling abilities that you choose to ignore. Look at the list of cars that top that list. They are indeed the best handling cars in the world. Look at the 'Ring times for the Viper ACR, Carrera GT, GT2, etc. They dominate the ring and they dominate the figure 8. How can you not see the correlation. You can believe what ever you want but you're wrong. They are in the same performance bracket. I'm going to link this to a few of the M3 guys when I see them on Saturday. This is too funny. This "It is not and never will be" wreaks of fanboy talk. I await the 2010 VIR testing. The GT500KR finished next to the M3. What do you have to say about that? That is a real roadcourse. The Mustang GT will outhandle the GT500 as it is better balances.

[Spartikus]

Originally Posted by ///Mangler

Again the figure 8 is not a track. It has no dynamics or flow. It's about as valuable as a skid pad.

Find some road course track numbers that are longer than an autocross course. Hell, at the Performance center on their 1.25 mile "autocross" track I posted times only 5sec off an E90M3 with Mike Rehner behind the wheel in my stock 2.3l 1988 M3. Are we saying that my 88M3 is in the E92M3 class?

We have to get real world numbers from real world road course tracks if you want to compare what you are arguing, that the 2011 Mustang GT is as good a track car as the E92 M3. Its not and never will be. They are built for different disciplines.

T

Virginia International Raceway

It has been proven that a 2011 Mustang GT lighter, faster, and more powerful than the 2011 Camaro SS. The Camaro posted 3:09sec around VIR. The M3 posted 3:05. The 2010 GT posted 3:13. and the GT500 posted 3:07. By looking at the results one can deduce the Mustang will be LESS than 4 seconds given its handling dwarfs the Camaro. The End. That puts its handling near the M3 on a road course. In fact, that even puts the Camaro SS in the same performance category! You can't argue that. Look how they are even grouped per CarandDriver.

On another note the 315hp 2010 Mustang: "Particularly impressive was the Mustang’s poise through the esses, where it averaged 109.4 mph, outrunning its rock-star big brother, the Shelby GT500. Indeed, despite the Shelby’s 225-hp advantage, the off-the-rack Mustang GT unceremoniously laid the smackdown on the supercharged snake, turning quicker times through sectors one, two, and four."

The all-new 2011 GT does not have the same weight issues the GT500 have. Ford disgustingly added over 400lbs of weight over the front axle of the car from the GT. Even the article noted that wasn't a step in the right direction but it still handled well enough and tamed its enormous power to finish next to the M3. It's not as balanced as the new GT. Thats the reason it lags behind in the figure 8 and will at the new VIR as well. It will no doubtly win every drag race past 100mph.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...3a07.4_page_12

[///Mangler]

Originally Posted by Spartikus

Virginia International Raceway

It has been proven that a 2011 Mustang GT lighter, faster, and more powerful than the 2011 Camaro SS. The Camaro posted 3:09sec around VIR. The M3 posted 3:05. The 2010 GT posted 3:13. and the GT500 posted 3:07. By looking at the results one can deduce the Mustang will be LESS than 4 seconds given its handling dwarfs the Camaro. The End. That puts its handling near the M3 on a road course. In fact, that even puts the Camaro SS in the same performance category! You can't argue that. Look how they are even grouped per CarandDriver.

On another note the 315hp 2010 Mustang: "Particularly impressive was the Mustang’s poise through the esses, where it averaged 109.4 mph, outrunning its rock-star big brother, the Shelby GT500. Indeed, despite the Shelby’s 225-hp advantage, the off-the-rack Mustang GT unceremoniously laid the smackdown on the supercharged snake, turning quicker times through sectors one, two, and four."

The all-new 2011 GT does not have the same weight issues the GT500 have. Ford disgustingly added over 400lbs of weight over the front axle of the car from the GT. Even the article noted that wasn't a step in the right direction but it still handled well enough and tamed its enormous power to finish next to the M3. It's not as balanced as the new GT. Thats the reason it lags behind in the figure 8 and will at the new VIR as well. It will no doubtly win every drag race past 100mph.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...3a07.4_page_12

I thought I was asked above not to link to hypotheticals?

Anyway, that will be the test. Although I will note having driven the grand course at VIR, sector 3 (which it doesn't turn a good time in) is very tight and not suited to either cars (M3 or GT).

When is the GT testing going to happen? I guess we wait and see.

By the way what is a Fanboy? I'm not a fan of the Mustang or a boy.

Bench racing is fun.

T

[///Mangler]

One more bench racing angle, the M3 is 4yrs old. I guess when the new M3 comes out (2013) and destroys the old 2011 GT at that time, then what?

Internet subjective discussions are useless anyway. It's like arguing religion or politics. No clear winner.

T

[Spartikus]

Originally Posted by ///Mangler

I thought I was asked above not to link to hypotheticals?

Anyway, that will be the test. Although I will note having driven the grand course at VIR, sector 3 (which it doesn't turn a good time in) is very tight and not suited to either cars (M3 or GT).

When is the GT testing going to happen? I guess we wait and see.

By the way what is a Fanboy? I'm not a fan of the Mustang or a boy.

Bench racing is fun.

T

I think we've exhausted ourselves. We will wait to the next VIR results since it will be on the same track, same day, etc. You don't have to be a fan to give respect when its due. There are plenty of cars I personally dont "like" but nod at how they perform.

Originally Posted by ///Mangler

One more bench racing angle, the M3 is 4yrs old. I guess when the new M3 comes out (2013) and destroys the old 2011 GT at that time, then what?

Internet subjective discussions are useless anyway. It's like arguing religion or politics. No clear winner.

T

There is zero doubt in my mind that it wont. I never said the Mustang GT was the better car. All I've been saying it is was competitive by the numbers but we both know cars are much more than that. Even the world's most popular AutoBlog agrees with me:

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/04/16/2...w-m3-tie-game/

Alright, fan boys (and girls), prepare for battle. The ever keen-eyed Sam Smith over at Jalopnik has spied an interesting phenomenon in the car universe. The new 2011 Ford Mustang GT performance figures are within spitting distance of the mighty 2010 BMW M3. The Bavarian bruiser produces 414 horsepower out of its milky-smooth 4.0-liter V8 and hits the scales at 3,652 lbs. Meanwhile, the 5.0-liter Mustang serves up two less horsepower, but weighs 40 pounds less, too.

At this point, odds are your blood is pumping no matter which side of the ring you happen to find yourself on. Stats that close yield frighteningly similar numbers when the two cars hit the track, too. The M3 can clip off the 0-60 dash in 4.3 seconds. The Mustang can do it in 4.4. Quarter mile? Deadlocked at 12.7 seconds at 111.3 mph.

It's true, a quarter mile doth not a sports car make, which is why these next figures are so important. While the M3 can come down from 60 mph in 105 feet, the Mustang can do the same in 104. And here's the real shocker: Both cars hold onto the skidpad at .97 g. Now, before the comments go superfly TNT, it's worth noting that the as-tested BMW will set you back an eye-widening $28,180 more than the Ford. We could think of a thing or two to do with an extra 30-large.

So the question remains, which would you take home?

This isn't like politics or religion. We aren't arguing which is better for each of us. That is definitely opinion. We are arguing measurable performance and you aren't giving up an inch. Anyhow, I'm done debating. Cheers.

[///Mangler]

Originally Posted by Spartikus

This isn't like politics or religion. We aren't arguing which is better for each of us. That is definitely opinion. We are arguing measurable performance and you aren't giving up an inch. Anyhow, I'm done debating. Cheers.

The BMW is definitely better for us.

T

[mixxer]

there is a track time for you to compare mangler .

[mixxer]

[trahsub]

The 2011 GT500 lapped VIR NINE seconds faster than the 2010 GT500. 2:58.5. But, the 'go fast in a straight line only: chorus still sings their silly song.

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/05/18/v...-nine-seconds/

[Spartikus]

Originally Posted by trahsub

The 2011 GT500 lapped VIR NINE seconds faster than the 2010 GT500. 2:58.5. But, the 'go fast in a straight line only: chorus still sings their silly song.

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/05/18/v...-nine-seconds/

You beat me to it. Ford is freaking sick right now.

[Moo]

Originally Posted by mixxer

there is a track time for you to compare mangler .

That's an impressive clip. I would never have thought the heavier GT would out-maneuver 370Z on a track... it's great that Ford is stepping up the game.

Competition is great

[amdmaxx]

Wow. And I bet it will be priced very similar to M1.. 55k loaded

Originally Posted by trahsub

The 2011 GT500 lapped VIR NINE seconds faster than the 2010 GT500. 2:58.5. But, the 'go fast in a straight line only: chorus still sings their silly song.

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/05/18/v...-nine-seconds/

[Guibo]

Very impressive time for the GT500. Anyone know which tires were on this car? That lateral g-meter hit 1.1g in the first turn. Same as the ACR in the C&D test. Keep in mind it was also C&D editors at the wheel of the old GT500, not SVT engineers.

[mixxer]

I hear crickets chirping ?

[Moo]

Originally Posted by mixxer

I hear crickets chirping ?

///Mangler: Last Activity: Today 07:06 AM

[BForbes]

Engineers were curious how much faster the latest iteration of Ford's ultimate Mustang is around VIR than the 2010 model. That's a good question, considering the 2011 model receives a number of upgrades (including the aforementioned performance package, which adds wider forged aluminum wheels, stickier rubber, a 3.73:1 drive ratio, stiffer springs, and revised aerodynamics) designed to help it move 'round a road course.

The result? An entertaining video, and a 2:58.5 lap time around the 4.1-mile track. In contrast, the 2010 GT 500 lapped VIR in 3:07.4, nine seconds slower. Seems like moving to an all-aluminum aluminum engine (which shed 102 pounds) and retuning the suspension did quite a bit of difference.

KING COBRA indeed.

[mixxer]

LMAO at MOO!