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07-17-2012, 01:21 PM | #45 | |
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Obivan, have you received the Supersprint headers yet for your brothers ride?
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128i Sport 6MT converted to Euro 130i spec, 3.73 diff, tuned by evolve ~220 whp 207 wtq(ft-lb) SAE
In-progress: //M front arm, M3 rack, e36M lip Wishlist: Coils, n55 mnts, headers, LSD, e60 finn diff "The 1-series is the last car that BMW engineered before the Germans, as a car-making culture, fell out of love with driving." - R&T 2013 135is |
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07-17-2012, 01:34 PM | #46 |
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Obihan- Show me one piece of data that confirms your opinion that the 128 will out corner and out brake the 135.
You cant because there isnt any. Show me one iota of track times that demonstrate it. You cant, there arent any. Saying readily available forms of competition(skid pad, slalom, track times) isnt usable data is ridiculous! What you're talking about is nothing more than personal opinion on what cars one like better. You like a 128 better than the 135, fine. But dont try to pull the wool over anybodies eyes that the 128 is a better performing car. It isnt, in any measureable test. Sorry. The E46 and 128 may have similar numbers but on a track Im sure the M3 will smoke the 128 and also blow the 128 out of the water with all those intangibles you like so much. You mention a drag race, yet in the next sentence talk about the M3's world class handling but that has absolutely nothing to do with the 128's handling ability. Also, comparing a modern car to one 13 years old doesnt impress to much either. A lot changes in 13 years. Ancient history. "All of the great drivers cars " again you talk about your opinion as if everyone agrees with you. There are many of us who love a V8 with its gobs of low end TQ. You can keep your S2000, many of us will choose a 7.0L LS7 that makes massive bottom TQ and is a higher winding N/A monster that makes 2 1/2 times as much HP at 7000rpm than your 128. Thats my opinion that many share with me. By the way, the N52 makes barely 200rwhp at about 63000rpm. Thats really not high reving. Nor making good power at that rpm. Not impressive by todays standard at all. Pretty ho hum. The S2000 for example makes more hp than the 128 at 7800rpm. Thats high reving. I keep trying to find track times for the 128 to compare data but they're damn near impossible to find. Strange, isnt it? Enjoy your 128. Im glad you like it better than the 135. I have nothing against a mans opinion even if I disagree. To each his own. Last edited by NYC6; 07-17-2012 at 01:55 PM.. |
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07-17-2012, 02:02 PM | #47 | ||
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SS headers are ordered, not yet delivered. Quote:
Let's break this down to it's simplest form. F = ma If you increase m (mass, as in the 135 has more mass than the 128) then you have less a (turning and stopping ability, in this case) for a given F (force, which in this car is determined by a combination of tires and suspension). The 128 and 135 have the same possible suspension and tire combinations, meaning they have the same F, which means the 135 will have less turning and braking a. Lastly, I said the 128 is spec on a stock e36 M3, not e46 anything. And, I feel a bit like a broken record at this point, but track times do not measure handling. They measure how long it takes to drive around a track. E.G. the Z06 handles better than the ZR1, even though the ZR1 is faster around most tracks.
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07-17-2012, 02:28 PM | #48 | |
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http://www.zeckhausen.com/StopTech/consumables.htm Zechausen=StopTech
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07-17-2012, 02:43 PM | #49 |
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Meant E36, just a typo.
All things being equal the 128 would have the slightest edge in cornering. The weight difference is so minor its not really negligible. Especially since the 135's power more than makes up for it. As for braking, its not an equal thing. The 135's brakes are much larger and have better calipers than the 128's. They are better for the street and limited track use. And yes, before someone else chimes in, they sometimes have issues with extreme track usage. Even still, they are much better than the N/A's cars setup. Most of the things you talk about are your(or others) opinion of a car. You say that the handling is better with the Z06 over the ZR1 but using your C&D list there, its basically a matter of ones opinion. There are many who could claim the the ZR1 is better handling, opinions based on your criteria. I'll stick to track times and other measurable data(along with personal opinion) to reach a conclusion. For me, the 135 has my vote in spades over the 'high winding' 128. I seriously doubt the 128 is faster around any track than the 135. |
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07-17-2012, 03:05 PM | #50 | |
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You alone make up half this thread. In a thread called no 128i love d'Fuck you doing here man? Are you that easily offended over the internet. By all means, be your car's knight in shining armor but do it else were. This might just be a legitimate 128i thread and you're about to ruin it. Obviously you've never driven a 128i, otherwise you wouldn't be saying half the things you are. I've driven both, and that ~120lbs off the front nose does make a difference. |
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07-17-2012, 03:20 PM | #51 | |
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Driven 128's a couple times while my 135 was in for routine warranty work and when having my PPK installed. That was 3 days alone with the car. The extra weight of the 135 wasnt felt by me at all. On the other hand, the lack of power in the 128 was certainly felt. |
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07-17-2012, 03:40 PM | #52 | |
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23' BMW Z4 M40i (SOLD): Also Drive: 24 Hyundai Ioniq 5 Also Drive: 22' Nissan Frontier Pro 4X |
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07-17-2012, 03:43 PM | #53 | |
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And how do you like stock throttle sensitivity? Push it down 1cm and hold it.. The revs shouldn't drop!!! Nor should it take a full .25 seconds to respond |
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07-17-2012, 03:51 PM | #55 | |
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"Also, most of the time I see another 128i its normally a woman or elderly people. Of course, who says they can't be enthusiasts, but most of the time they are on the phone." The quote above is by a 128i owner. Take it up with him perhaps. |
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07-17-2012, 04:01 PM | #56 | |
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Only the outer casing is magnesium , the inner is all alu.. Anyway, what makes you think that weakens the engine? You should google '2000 hp 4g63t' and see what theyr'e being made out of The n52 is definitely capable of producing plenty of power, it's just more effort compared to the n54 I mean, in the uk theres at least 1 guy with a race prepped 130i, stock internals, just a custom ecu, new intake with itb's, new camshaft, and not even a full new exhaust, making 335hp.. That's not even going anything too crazy, not putting in the 3.2 stroker, no supercharger! Im hoping more comes out in the next few years |
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07-17-2012, 04:05 PM | #57 | |
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07-17-2012, 04:07 PM | #58 | |
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07-17-2012, 04:10 PM | #59 | |
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The weight difference, per BMW, is 165 lbs. Many independent tests have shown it to be much greater-- for example, car and driver weighted theirs and found the weight difference to be 230 lbs. Either way it is certainly significant. Additionally, the 128 is much closer to 50/50 weight distribution, which is much better for handling as well. I would argue that both brake setups for the 1 series suck, but if I had to chose one, I'd rather have the setup that fades than the setup that catastrophically fails. That said, I wonder if the 128i setup on the 128i is actually more prone to fade than the 135i setup is on the 135i-- less weight to slow it down and less power means less speed to be slowing from. Either way, I don't believe BMW has ever actually shipped a car with good brakes from the factory. All of mine have been upgraded to full Brembo GT BBKs :roll eyes: Either way, Worst case for 128i brakes: fade (probably completely addressable through track pads) Worst case for 135i brakes: cracked pistons, melted dust boots, fade. If you address the fade with pads, you increase temps making it more likely you'll have cracked pistons and melted dust boots. High winding, from the drivers perspective, doesn't matter what the absolute redline is. The idea is that you have to work the trans over to stay in the power band rather than just relying on torque. It doesn't matter if that happens at 7000 rpm or at 8200 rpm (as it does in my DD e46 M3).
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07-17-2012, 04:18 PM | #61 | |
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Just checked out the engine you listed. Are you talking about the iron blocked/aluminum head one? Thats all I could find. Big difference between magnesium and al and not sure of your point, if that is indeed the one you're thinking off. Please elaborate. |
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07-17-2012, 04:22 PM | #62 | |
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Ed: i know they do but it takes ages lol |
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07-17-2012, 04:23 PM | #63 | ||
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And no, the reason they chose mg alu is because they have the same heat expansion characteristics so the block stays even If you found the right one, from memory it has magnesium piston heads Other facts: the camshafts are hollow hydroformed. The n52 is the most technologically developed engine bmw's made, lightest (while still strong) materials, lightest everything, theres a reason it holds a record to do with that lol.. The only crazy electronic type tech on it though, is the valvetronic which appears to be fairly bulletproof lol Ed: and on the orher topic, yes, if a 128i and 135i have the exact same suspension and brakes (and wheels ad tires) the 135i will be outperformed in all aspects other than acceleration. |
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07-17-2012, 04:37 PM | #64 |
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Both cars are brilliant in their own right. Love my 128 and have had some seat time in the 135. If you start a post with '128 is more reliable than 135' expect a few 135 owners to chime in.
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07-17-2012, 04:44 PM | #65 | |
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07-17-2012, 04:54 PM | #66 | |
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In all honesty this is the most passionate thread in the 128i N52 forum. Keep the debate civil, we all have valid points! The issue is definition of performance. Has anyone actually boosted N52 to the point of failure? I know an ARMA supercharger blew up for a e9x guy, but thats an after market super charger. So other than that case there is nothing. Therefore, the strength of n52 block cannot be argued about unless some shop takes a salvaged n52, slaps on a Garrett snail and blows it up. Whats bad about is that n52 is fused between alu and magnesium parts so a new block would be needed to replace any such event. I even recall a few e9x guys scratching their head over using n55 turbo on n52, because they read that n55 came derived from n52. I dont know where that thread went but my RealOEM odyssey revealed that n55 looks alot like n54 and the airbox/intke all that is on the wrong side of the engine. Anyone care to comment?
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128i Sport 6MT converted to Euro 130i spec, 3.73 diff, tuned by evolve ~220 whp 207 wtq(ft-lb) SAE
In-progress: //M front arm, M3 rack, e36M lip Wishlist: Coils, n55 mnts, headers, LSD, e60 finn diff "The 1-series is the last car that BMW engineered before the Germans, as a car-making culture, fell out of love with driving." - R&T 2013 135is Last edited by andrey_gta; 07-17-2012 at 05:15 PM.. |
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