IS prices going nuts

[iminhell1]

For someone like me who isn't well versed in BMW goings on, the 135is is just another car. I don't know anything about it other than a different name. So to me it's not worth anything more than the normal 135i. I'd imagine that is the same as 99% of potential buyers.
So if that is true, then the 135is is a very niche car and might be a tough sell at a premium price. ... so you want $5k more because it has blue stitching and a few more hp? I'll pass.
For the vast majority of buyers they just want a car to drive. The 1m and is owners, in general, seem to be more collector status orientated. And i really don't blame them as they do have limited production cars. But I'm of the mind that believes cars are meant to be driven and driven hard. Not tucked away or even just taken out for a brisk Sunday stroll.
'til the wheels fall off.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by iminhell1

For someone like me who isn't well versed in BMW goings on, the 135is is just another car. I don't know anything about it other than a different name. So to me it's not worth anything more than the normal 135i. I'd imagine that is the same as 99% of potential buyers.
So if that is true, then the 135is is a very niche car and might be a tough sell at a premium price. ... so you want $5k more because it has blue stitching and a few more hp? I'll pass.
For the vast majority of buyers they just want a car to drive. The 1m and is owners, in general, seem to be more collector status orientated. And i really don't blame them as they do have limited production cars. But I'm of the mind that believes cars are meant to be driven and driven hard. Not tucked away or even just taken out for a brisk Sunday stroll.
'til the wheels fall off.

OK, so you aren't in the target audience for a 135is; nothing wrong about that. People who are looking for the sort of car that BMW used to build, on steroids, are the target audience.

Again, I am suggesting that these cars will self-segregate. Longer term owners and collectors will gravitate towards the "is" if they can find one and the price seems reasonable to them. People who are willing to pay more for an "is" will tend to drive fewer miles and to "garage queen" them. The market will segregate itself out and the 135is cars in good condition, with reasonable mileage for age, will sell for more than most of the 135i cars sell for.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by elitesales305

smh.. ur crazier than a shit house rat!!
I hope u don't get into all these vehicle u own :::rolls eyes:: with those ratty ass sandals in ur avatar..
because in all honestythat would be ----..unfortunate, and undeserved, in my opinion

They are handmade Italian Brador Flip Flops, unavailable at any store that would let anyone resembling you into the door. If you want a pair, get on a jet and be prepared to pay more than your monthly car payment.

Addendum 5/5/2018: You can make fun of my family, my cars, my appearance, and most anything else about me, but my flip flops are off limits :-)

[champignon]

Originally Posted by elitesales305

u know people get so butt hurt on here
it was ok to make a blanket statement that "kids are ruining these cars"...
wich is not fact.. because I consider myself young.. and I have not bastardized my car in any way.. and if I did .. its my money and I can ghetto my car if I damn well please as I pay for it!!
but what is fact.. that those sandals.. are from a dollar store and hes getting into his "1m" in them.. soo wouldn't that be hypocritical of him??
a 16 yr old puts a ebay shopping cart wing on his 135i and hes murdered the car..
but a guy that owns a 1m gets out at whole foods wearing dollar store flip flops is ... understandable??
come on.. go dick ride somewhere else

We speak, or at least try to speak, English on this forum

[duder13]

Originally Posted by champignon

For those who can read, I said in my post that the comparison between a regular 996 and a turbo is "not wholly pertinent." In addition, what I have said at least twice in this thread is that I believe that the implied exclusivity of the "is" model is likely to lead to them being treated differently by their owners than many or most regular 135i cars will be treated. The "is" version represented a tiny percentage of the run of "135i-type" cars. People who own them will be looking to get more for them than will be the case with people who own regular versions. As a result, they are likely to end up in the hands of people who will treat them better, rather than as a "cheap used kids car," which is what appears to be happening to the regular 1-Series cars (unfortunately, and undeserved, in my opinion).

I think these cars will segment more as time goes on, because the people who will pay a few thousand (or more) for them over what it would cost to buy a cheaper, regular, more easily available version will treat them better, and this will be reflected in resale values more and more as time goes on.

Just my take, and we shall see, and honestly, I don't much care, I'm not selling mine.

I can read. You said it wasn't wholly pertinent, and I'm saying it isn't pertinent at all.

If you're going to use Porsche as an example, again, it's very much like the Design Editions, which are barely more desirable these days. I expect desirability down the road to largely be based on condition, as you imply, rather than "i" vs. "is." If the "is" versions happen to be in better shape at that point, then so be it, but I'm sure there will be a lot of grandparent owned "i" models in great condition owned down the road, too, simply because so many more were made.

For a few extra grand? Sure. For $10K+ more? No way.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by duder13

I can read. You said it wasn't wholly pertinent, and I'm saying it isn't pertinent at all.

If you're going to use Porsche as an example, again, it's very much like the Design Editions, which are barely more desirable these days. I expect desirability down the road to largely be based on condition, as you imply, rather than "i" vs. "is." If the "is" versions happen to be in better shape at that point, then so be it, but I'm sure there will be a lot of grandparent owned "i" models in great condition owned down the road, too, simply because so many more were made.

For a few extra grand? Sure. For $10K+ more? No way.

I didn't put a specific dollar amount on the price difference; I have no idea what that would be, but I do expect it to be real.

Will any member of the 1-Series other than the 1M be truly collectible in the future? I have my doubts. They are worthy of being collectible, however tastes are fickle, and barring some sort of change, small cars like the 1-Series are not in favor, and it is hard to come up with a scenario going forward where they will suddenly become desirable. They will be a niche product, which means that you can probably get someone to pay up for your well-conserved car, but it is going to be a chore to find that person in the first place.

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by Esteban

So did it list an additional price on your sticker for the blue stitched leather? On both of my 1ers (my '08 and my current '11) the Boston leather was listed as "included" on the sticker. How about yours?

Same.

[iminhell1]

Originally Posted by champignon

OK, so you aren't in the target audience for a 135is; nothing wrong about that. People who are looking for the sort of car that BMW used to build, on steroids, are the target audience.

Again, I am suggesting that these cars will self-segregate. Longer term owners and collectors will gravitate towards the "is" if they can find one and the price seems reasonable to them. People who are willing to pay more for an "is" will tend to drive fewer miles and to "garage queen" them. The market will segregate itself out and the 135is cars in good condition, with reasonable mileage for age, will sell for more than most of the 135i cars sell for.

I am getting genuinely curious as to what the differences in the is models are?


I caught mention of blue stitching, PPK2 (which I don't know what that is) and some different wheels.

Where do I go to find out more about these cars?




... and I might say the 1m is on steroids. Anything else would just be a weak protein shake?

[duder13]

Originally Posted by champignon

I didn't put a specific dollar amount on the price difference; I have no idea what that would be, but I do expect it to be real.

Will any member of the 1-Series other than the 1M be truly collectible in the future? I have my doubts. They are worthy of being collectible, however tastes are fickle, and barring some sort of change, small cars like the 1-Series are not in favor, and it is hard to come up with a scenario going forward where they will suddenly become desirable. They will be a niche product, which means that you can probably get someone to pay up for your well-conserved car, but it is going to be a chore to find that person in the first place.

Yeah, I was just referring to the craziness of the OP's findings, showing "is" models to be listed at $10k-$15k more than their "i" brethren. I don't think that price difference will last, and it will eventually largely come down to condition, like you were saying.

It's hard to know whether the regular 135i will become collectible. It could end up being just another dime a dozen German two-door, or it could become a bit of a cult car like the 2002. The 135i does get a lot of love on car blogs. Heck, I've never been a huge BMW fan, and I still bought a 135i. The 1M will for sure be desirable long term.

[JimVonBaden]

Originally Posted by champignon

Here's a guess on what is going to happen in the future; regular 135i cars have become so cheap that they are going to be bought up by kids and other people who will trash them and turn most of them into nothing more than "used cars."

The 135is does have an air of exclusivity to it, given the small number that were made. If the buyers of these cars take care of them and don't run them into the ground, I think it is very likely that a good condition relatively low mileage 135is will sell for substantially more years hence than most 135i cars will sell for. Some of it will be the name and the pedigree, and some of it will be due to the fact that the cars are taken care of and treated like garage queens.

As an example that is not wholly pertinent, you can't give a regular 996 Porsche 911 away, but the turbos are appreciating.

Being newer to the Bimmer owner population, my view of the 1-series is that 90% of the general public doesn't know the difference between a 128, a 135 and certainly not between a 135i and 135is. The value isn't going to be significantly different as time goes on.

Example, who knows the difference between a Saturn Sky, and a Saturn Sky Redline? They basically look alike.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by iminhell1

I am getting genuinely curious as to what the differences in the is models are?


I caught mention of blue stitching, PPK2 (which I don't know what that is) and some different wheels.

Where do I go to find out more about these cars?




... and I might say the 1m is on steroids. Anything else would just be a weak protein shake?

Here's a pretty good article about the 135is.

[c1pher]

There’s several articles about the 135is and in the forum there are some threads on what is different etc.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by JimVonBaden

Being newer to the Bimmer owner population, my view of the 1-series is that 90% of the general public doesn't know the difference between a 128, a 135 and certainly not between a 135i and 135is. The value isn't going to be significantly different as time goes on.

Example, who knows the difference between a Saturn Sky, and a Saturn Sky Redline? They basically look alike.

If you're not a car enthusiast, you probably don't even know the 1 series exists. Came to the US in 2008 and was discontinued here after 2013. Most people who see my car know it's a BMW but don't know what model unless they see the badge, and then they say "I didn't know BMW made a 1 series." I like it like that. We fly under the radar. lol

[Bimmer-Bob]

Originally Posted by MGM135is

Some people say the same thing about the 1M.

Seriously? The 135is is a regular series car with a few port-installed accessories installed, plus extra badging to make you feel exclusive. It's not even an official BMW AG product - it was invented by BMWNA to sell more cars.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by Bimmer-Bob

Seriously? The 135is is a regular series car with a few port-installed accessories installed, plus extra badging to make you feel exclusive. It's not even an official BMW AG product - it was invented by BMWNA to sell more cars.

I doubt it was invented by BMWNA; I don't think that they "invent" anything, ala "we were just following orders." :-)

BMW AG was surprised at how much interest there was for the 1M, exceeding their expectations, which obviously encouraged them to develop the M2. In the interim, there was going to be a time lag, so they did what they could to maintain interest in a small performance oriented coupe, by modifying the 135i in its last year of production, somewhat stemming the gap between the 1M and the M2. It was all about maintaining excitement.

What is somewhat lost in this discussion is the fact that the 135i itself is a performance car.

My personal opinion is that the 135i is about half of an M-Car, and unlike some M-badged cars like the M240i, it flies entirely under the radar. With the PPK2 and performance exhaust installed, the 135is is to me at least 60-75% of an M-car. In a lot of ways I prefer driving my 135is convertible over driving my new M2, and I don't feel like the 135is is a huge step down in performance. Plus nothing about the 135is is fake; you can't say that about current M-offerings from BMW AG.

[c1pher]

Take it with a grain f salt but if you look back at Consumer Reports best car lists, the 135i was at the top until displaced by Tesla, m235i and M2. That’s how good a car it was compared to everything else, and still is. Essentially same motor as the M2 and you could still get DCT which is now more of an M car option now.

[CAVU]

I hope people aren't overthinking this topic. For me it was simple. Do I check the "is" box on the order sheet or not? Do I want the PPK, extra cooler, 313 wheels, and Performance Exhaust or don't I? How much would those options cost if added ala carte? I ticked the "is" box. The concept of pursuing "a more desirable" or "more valuable" 135i never entered my mind. I never once regretted the decision.

[c1pher]

I also look online at 135i/is car sales and the is pricing very much depends on if the seller (usually an independent dealer) knows what they are selling. Many 135is are sold as 135i with no bump in price, but when sold as a 135is, usually the price is higher.

[minirips2]

I think the values of 135is's is rising partly due to their rarity, and partly due to the "Next best thing" effect. The effect I'm referring to is when the value of a highly desirable car like a 1M, or a MB 300SL hits a level where most enthusiasts give up on finding one, so they gravitate to the closest car they can find. In this case a 135is, or in the case of MB, a 190SL. 190's used to be cheap fun. Not anymore.
BTW-Sweet sandals, Champignon!

[swagon]

Originally Posted by champignon

I doubt it was invented by BMWNA; I don't think that they "invent" anything, ala "we were just following orders." :-)

zzz

All the is-specific hardware (PE, PPK, stickers, badges) was installed at the port in the US by BMWNA. It's not even registered in the VIN, unlike the 335is.


Gotta love these threads. They're always the same.

[duder13]

Originally Posted by champignon

I doubt it was invented by BMWNA; I don't think that they "invent" anything, ala "we were just following orders." :-)

BMW AG was surprised at how much interest there was for the 1M, exceeding their expectations, which obviously encouraged them to develop the M2. In the interim, there was going to be a time lag, so they did what they could to maintain interest in a small performance oriented coupe, by modifying the 135i in its last year of production, somewhat stemming the gap between the 1M and the M2. It was all about maintaining excitement.

What is somewhat lost in this discussion is the fact that the 135i itself is a performance car.

My personal opinion is that the 135i is about half of an M-Car, and unlike some M-badged cars like the M240i, it flies entirely under the radar. With the PPK2 and performance exhaust installed, the 135is is to me at least 60-75% of an M-car. In a lot of ways I prefer driving my 135is convertible over driving my new M2, and I don't feel like the 135is is a huge step down in performance. Plus nothing about the 135is is fake; you can't say that about current M-offerings from BMW AG.

The 135is was meant to stem the tide between the 135i and m235i, not the 1M and M2. It’s just a nice options package added to a 135i in America.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by swagon

All the is-specific hardware (PE, PPK, stickers, badges) was installed at the port in the US by BMWNA. It's not even registered in the VIN, unlike the 335is.


Gotta love these threads. They're always the same.

The problem I have with the "exclusivity" of the 135is is the fact you can pretty much buy all the stuff that goes into the 135is for the regular 135i. The only thing you can't get are the dash badge and the blue stitching for the leather. It's a nice option to get all the bits installed for you before you take delivery and probably end up paying less than buying/installing the bits later on a 135i. To me the numbering of the 135is is a bit made up to try to make the car more than it is.

In reference to the 1M, there's a huge difference. One...well....it's an M car. There are those that say the 1M is just M bits thrown into a 135i. As those who have done M conversions on their 1 series know, it's not just bolting up parts. The fact you have to significantly modify the rear fender/quarter panel to have the body work to support the wider wheels/tires is one thing you can't just bolt up. The other thing is there isn't just a drop in limited slip that applies for the 135i. And as someone mentioned, the steering rack is substantially different and not something that is a simple drop in/bolt on.

Ducati did this with the last model year of the 848. The sold the bike with some Ducati performance bits thrown in as factory installed parts. To me, it was a way to drum up end of model run hype for those on the fence about waiting for the new model or buying the out going one. Also maybe a way to clear out the parts bins in the warehouse. I see this as the same for the 135is.

I'm not bagging on those with 135is'. I almost bought one when I was buying my 135i. The dealer had just sold it and only had the one I bought left. I ended up adding the PPK2 to my 135i.

Oh and what's funny when you do a VIN/options search, all of our 135i's come up as 135is.