anybody miss manual, move back but then miss DCT?

[Davil]

Originally Posted by baege

I get your point, but not all DCTs are created equal
some are much more direct and visceral


still not one post though from someone who wanted to go back to DCT in a weekend car

I guess that does say something

Well. If I ever bought another M2CS I would choose DCT. It really suited the engine and it was definitely visceral. I loved how it banged the gear changes in aggressive modes. I never drove my old one as an auto other than parking and traffic. I think it beats PDK for excitement when using in manual mode but PDK is better if you want an auto. Porsche did design theirs to be primarily an auto whereas M wants you to change your own gears.

[vt100]

Originally Posted by Davil

Well. If I ever bought another M2CS I would choose DCT. It really suited the engine and it was definitely visceral. I loved how it banged the gear changes in aggressive modes. I never drove my old one as an auto other than parking and traffic. I think it beats PDK for excitement when using in manual mode but PDK is better if you want an auto. Porsche did design theirs to be primarily an auto whereas M wants you to change your own gears.

PDK on GT cars isn’t the same as PDK on regular Porsches

[baege]

Originally Posted by Davil

Well. If I ever bought another M2CS I would choose DCT. It really suited the engine and it was definitely visceral. I loved how it banged the gear changes in aggressive modes. I never drove my old one as an auto other than parking and traffic. I think it beats PDK for excitement when using in manual mode but PDK is better if you want an auto. Porsche did design theirs to be primarily an auto whereas M wants you to change your own gears.

interesting...

there is definitely something racecar about a good DCT with the rapid shifts at your control and the sounds the engine makes

I guess the real question is would you actually choose DCT over manual in your weekend car?

that is the question I face

dont want to make an expensive move back to manual and then actually miss DCT

[Davil]

Originally Posted by baege

interesting...

there is definitely something racecar about a good DCT with the rapid shifts at your control and the sounds the engine makes

I guess the real question is would you actually choose DCT over manual in your weekend car?

that is the question I face

dont want to make an expensive move back to manual and then actually miss DCT

No. My Vantage AMR manual is a much better driving experience than my old M2CS. No comparison really. That’s as much due to natural aspiration, hydraulic steering and nicer balance as it is the gearbox though. If you are going manual you want all the analog elements as they make up the whole experience.

Still love the CS though and the DCT really suited it. In that car a better choice than manual.

[Our03z4]

My wife's stage 1 tuned Jetta Sportwagen has a DSG (DCT is the equivalent) and I just finished changing the dual mass flywheel. After that fun I'm not sure I want one anymore. Told her next time it's going to the junk yard lol. Saved 5k by doing it that and another thing myself, so there's that I guess.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Our03z4

My wife's stage 1 tuned Jetta Sportwagen has a DSG (DCT is the equivalent) and I just finished changing the dual mass flywheel. After that fun I'm not sure I want one anymore. Told her next time it's going to the junk yard lol. Saved 5k by doing it that and another thing myself, so there's that I guess.

Are you saying removing a DCT is more difficult than a manual or automatic transmission?

[Our03z4]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Are you saying removing a DCT is more difficult than a manual or automatic transmission?

It has a lot of weight but the bigger issue is that dual mass flywheel. We got lucky and ours started making the noise they make when they start to go bad. It went downhill quick but since we were close to home it wasn't an issue. Sometimes they'll make no noise and just let go, at best the trans get a hole in it but sometimes it will take both the trans and engine out which financially totals the car. I'm just glad we were nearby and not on a long trip. Don't get me wrong, the lightning fast shifts are incredible but I'm not sure it's worth the risk. Miles are all over the place on when this happens too so you can't really even be proactive.

[Alvin Mpower]

I had a manual 440i as my first ever manual car for 2 years, traded it away for the f82 M4 DCT because I wasn't really good at shifting and just wanted to go fast. First time I test drove the DCT I felt in love with the aggressiveness it shift, just about a month ago I traded away my F82 for a M850i.

Here is the thing, I really wanted to get back into a manual sedan while I was hunting for me next car. I was looking at CT4/CT5 Blackwing, Acura Integra Type S, G80 manual price tag was out of my budget as they HOLD THEIR VALUE TOO HIGH. I test drove a GR86 and I almost traded in my M4 for it lol, the dealer low balled my trade in so I walked.

Now, when I had my 440i, it was my first manual, and I was not very good at it, even after 2 years of owning it. It was a lot of fun, I drove the crap out of it. Took it on long trips like going to Vermont, and New Hampshire. I even brought my car up to Mt. Washington after I lowered it on spring lol, it was a unique experience, literally driving on the edge of the road. I also drove my car to NYC a lot, in Manhattan couple of times, a lot of city and highway traffic. Honestly it's not that bad, you just have to ride the clutch for it to move forward in bumper to bumper traffic.

Honestly at the time I hated the manual and I wanted to get rid of it so bad, when I find my F82 DCT I jumped on it immediately. It was good fun for a couple of month until I have lost interest of driving my car for fun, I hardly drive it in manual as I just use my car to commute from work to home. The only time I put my car in manual is when I want to rev the engine out to hear the exhaust, or when I hit the backroad which I rarely do. After test drove couple manual cars like Integra A spec and GR86 I started to miss the manual, it just make you want to drive the car more, and by drive I mean shift the gear and have some fun. When you drive a manual you don't really settle down, you are having fun every time you row the gear, it's amazing.

Why I ended up with a M850i? Will, I really wanted a sedan, but don't want to go down in luxury. I posted on Acura forum and everyone on there say I will miss the BMW luxury. NLG I sat in the Type S and it looks exactly like Civics Si and I sad nope. Also I hate how long the clutch travel is for Honda cars. I test drove last gen Type R and the new Integra the amount of clutch travel is just bad. When I had my 440i I put on a clutch stop and my clutch bites instantly, the car starts to move forward/Reverse the moment I let the clutch go, feels like when you drive an auto when you let go of your brake the car starts to move forward/backwards. So, my goal is to wait for G80 manual price to come down (eventually?) and pick up one of those in the future. Also I just really like the look of the 8 series, and I want to experience the V8, it's an awesome car.

The M850i is smooth and comfortable so you lose a lot of driving experience vs the DCT in the M4, honestly the S55 and the DCT pairs perfectly, I never had a complain in that car, except not enough space lol.

I agree with a lot of what people here are saying, 2 car solution is the ultimate move. If I don't end up with a manual G80 maybe I get a 2 door manual (Manual Supra? Manual Z4 M40i? 911? GR86?) and another car to daily.

[CJ421]

No.

DCT/auto is fun, but as far as which car I want to drive, it's the manual every time.

I came from an 8AT Z4 M40i. Loved the car, and I think about the car sometimes, but never about the transmission. I had two manual BMW's before it and whenever I think of those cars, I think of the transmissions, too.

Charles

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Alvin Mpower

I agree with a lot of what people here are saying, 2 car solution is the ultimate move. If I don't end up with a manual G80 maybe I get a 2 door manual (Manual Supra? Manual Z4 M40i? 911? GR86?) and another car to daily.

I practice the "6 vehicle solution", but only one is an automatic.

[Phillies8008]

The only way I could envision switching from a manual to a DCT were if it were a daily driver and I constantly had to sit in bumper-to-bumper traffic, like if I were cursed to live in Atlanta or LA. Then I could see a MT just not being worth it in a daily driver.

That being said, I daily an i4 so a manual transmission is obviously not in the cards. While I miss shifting gears on a daily basis, there are enough other upsides to make the loss palatable to me, but YMMV. Fortunately, I have two 6MT Z4s to play with, so I'm able to scratch the stick shifting itch on a regular basis. If I didn't find the i4 so compelling in so many other ways I would definitely be driving something with a stick daily if at all possible.

But yeah, the answer is have both, lol.

[25 V8 IS]

I'll admit I absolutely loved the DCT on my 2021 M2C. It was amazing in manual mode and I even set it up so that in automatic mode it wasn't so bad.

As much as I love my IS 500, the transmission in it is seriously underwhelming. Only when it is warmed up and at high rpms does it work correctly.

[mmarsalone]

I've just traded in my Macan for a 6MT Z4. Now all of my cars are manuals. I'm recently retired and it's fun to roll through the gears in a daily driver.

The first new car I purchased was a 5 speed Maxima Sport in 1987. My whole working career had a lot of travel. I was living in Washington DC and was working in New York. The only time I regretted the manual was when I was stuck on the Long Island Expressway. If I get stuck in traffic now, well then I failed to plan properly. Although NOLA traffic really isn't that bad.

[Phillies8008]

Originally Posted by mmarsalone

I've just traded in my Macan for a 6MT Z4. Now all of my cars are manuals. I'm recently retired and it's fun to roll through the gears in a daily driver.

The first new car I purchased was a 5 speed Maxima Sport in 1987. My whole working career had a lot of travel. I was living in Washington DC and was working in New York. The only time I regretted the manual was when I was stuck on the Long Island Expressway. If I get stuck in traffic now, well then I failed to plan properly. Although NOLA traffic really isn't that bad.

I think everyone regrets being on the Long Island Expressway. Almost as much as being on Long Island.

[thebmw]

Originally Posted by Phillies8008

The only way I could envision switching from a manual to a DCT were if it were a daily driver and I constantly had to sit in bumper-to-bumper traffic, like if I were cursed to live in Atlanta or LA. Then I could see a MT just not being worth it in a daily driver.

How much time have you spent in a DCT in traffic? It is worse than a manual. It lurches and shifts less smoothly than an auto. Couple that with carbon ceramic brakes, like I have, and it is lurching forward and jerking to a stop if you're not careful. Torque converters are a wonderful thing in stop-and-go traffic. Manuals are way smoother than DCTs, but more work.

DCTs are amazing if you are on the track, but they really offer no other real world advantage over the heavily refined ZF transmission. There is no replacement for a manual, for better or worse.

[Alfisti]

Even ZF lurches and jerks about. The GM 5 speed AT in my Saab was silky sooth, all the ZF's I have driven and own are rough as guts.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by thebmw

How much time have you spent in a DCT in traffic? It is worse than a manual. It lurches and shifts less smoothly than an auto. Couple that with carbon ceramic brakes, like I have, and it is lurching forward and jerking to a stop if you're not careful. Torque converters are a wonderful thing in stop-and-go traffic. Manuals are way smoother than DCTs, but more work.

DCTs are amazing if you are on the track, but they really offer no other real world advantage over the heavily refined ZF transmission. There is no replacement for a manual, for better or worse.

IDK what you drove, but I had a hyundai with a DCT and in traffic with adaptive cruise control it was great. It did have a stall/clunk issue starting out in the morning, but once going that wasn't an issue and in traffic it was great, since I didn't have to use the gas or the brake. No lurching/jerking while driving in traffic.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Even ZF lurches and jerks about. The GM 5 speed AT in my Saab was silky sooth, all the ZF's I have driven and own are rough as guts.

Yep, depends on the programming and exact application. I drove a Chrysler with one and it was pretty crap, couldn't decide what gear to go in. The one on my BMW was much better.

[thebmw]

Originally Posted by RM7

IDK what you drove, but I had a hyundai with a DCT and in traffic with adaptive cruise control it was great. It did have a stall/clunk issue starting out in the morning, but once going that wasn't an issue and in traffic it was great, since I didn't have to use the gas or the brake. No lurching/jerking while driving in traffic.

My current experiences with DCT, manual, and ZF are with N63TU and S63TU engines and F and G generation platforms. I am not referring to old automatics or old ZFs, some of which absolutely stunk.

The DCT is in the M6 competition. The manuals are in M6 comp and non-comp as well as numerous other cars. I also have ceramic brakes and steel brakes. The DCT is just so twitchy at a stop and good luck trying to 1 inch forward.

Current ZFs are 1/10 of a second behind the DCTs so in daily real-world driving, they're just as good but so much smoother. That's why BMW doesn't offer DCT anymore. No real advantage and the transmission clutches wear out way faster than an automatic, non-clutch transmission will.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by RM7

Yep, depends on the programming and exact application. I drove a Chrysler with one and it was pretty crap, couldn't decide what gear to go in. The one on my BMW was much better.

Had an X3 with a ZF, own a Stelvio and a F-Pace with one too. They're absolute shite cold, really, really shite. In warmer weather they are much better but they still absolutely suck compared to the GM unit in my former Saab. Hear me out.

Suburban Toronto is a relentless stream of stop signs, if I have a clear view I do not come to a total stop, i sort of coast in, tap the brakes, and don't QUITE stop then accelerate through the intersection. That transition, where the tranny is in the process of or has shifted down, and then you get on the throttle, even REALLY, REALLY gingerly, the ZF is fucking hopeless, slamming into gear and jerking about like a cold PDK. The GM 5 Speed "sensotronic" had zero issues in this area.

[Phillies8008]

Originally Posted by thebmw

How much time have you spent in a DCT in traffic? It is worse than a manual. It lurches and shifts less smoothly than an auto. Couple that with carbon ceramic brakes, like I have, and it is lurching forward and jerking to a stop if you're not careful. Torque converters are a wonderful thing in stop-and-go traffic. Manuals are way smoother than DCTs, but more work.

DCTs are amazing if you are on the track, but they really offer no other real world advantage over the heavily refined ZF transmission. There is no replacement for a manual, for better or worse.

Zero. I guess I was answering more from the perspective of an automatic transmission in general. But yeah, if the choice were a DCT or a manual, and DCT really do suck in stop/go traffic, then I guess I'd get the manual since I like that flavor of poison much more.

But in a general sense, I'd much prefer an A/T if my life included daily drives in long periods of stop/go traffic. Thankfully, it doesn't.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by thebmw

How much time have you spent in a DCT in traffic? It is worse than a manual. It lurches and shifts less smoothly than an auto. Couple that with carbon ceramic brakes, like I have, and it is lurching forward and jerking to a stop if you're not careful. Torque converters are a wonderful thing in stop-and-go traffic. Manuals are way smoother than DCTs, but more work.

DCTs are amazing if you are on the track, but they really offer no other real world advantage over the heavily refined ZF transmission. There is no replacement for a manual, for better or worse.

Having driven extensively in very heavy traffic in a manual transmission for all of my driving life using normal street cars, I just don't see the difficulty of a manual transmission. Especially in modern cars with hydraulic clutch circuits and drive-by-wire throttles. Using my E90 as an example, the clutch has easy take up and the ECU is programmed to keep the engine lit and spinning. Once in 1st gear the car will idle along at a few MPH with no need to control the throttle. My 2008 Z4 does this as does my 2022 Bronco.

Is a 1968 Camaro with a 400-block V8 and cable clutch a PITA in stop-and-go traffic, yeah, but it's not 1968 any longer.