[Ingeniator]

Originally Posted by 924er

should i replace my HPFP? i seen a rebuilt one online for $300. Im under CPO warranty and HPFP warranty but i doubt i can use those because my car is throwing no codes and acting normal. i can't show them these catalogs lol

Wait and see if @SteveAZ has an opinion. I'm thinking your issues are caused by the internal IPR but I don't have as much experience as him with our fuelling system.

[SteveAZ]

Sorry, I meant to reply to this last night and got distracted.

First of all, just to clarify...If I were buying an HPFP, I wouldn't buy if from anybody other than a BMW dealer.

I believe the one I bought from United BMW Online a while back was $325 and there was a $50 core refund offered. That way you will get the latest rev...and yes, there definitely is a difference.

Second, I'm not seeing any issues with the HPFP or LPFP...am I missing something?

As for your throttle closures in that latest log, those look to me to be boost related. @allen@ptf can help you out with that

In the screenshot below, you'll see that those throttle closures all coincide with the boost mean exceeding the requested boost.



As for the issues with rough idle. I'd like to see the STFT's and LTFT's at idle when this is happening.

[Ingeniator]

Originally Posted by SteveAZ

Sorry, I meant to reply to this last night and got distracted.

First of all, just to clarify...If I were buying an HPFP, I wouldn't buy if from anybody other than a BMW dealer.

I believe the one I bought from United BMW Online a while back was $325 and there was a $50 core refund offered. That way you will get the latest rev...and yes, there definitely is a difference.

Second, I'm not seeing any issues with the HPFP or LPFP...am I missing something?

As for your throttle closures in that latest log, those look to me to be boost related. @allen@ptf can help you out with that

In the screenshot below, you'll see that those throttle closures all coincide with the boost mean exceeding the requested boost.



As for the issues with rough idle. I'd like to see the STFT's and LTFT's at idle when this is happening.

Steve, I was going by the deviation between the requested and actual on the high pressure side. I think the regulating solenoid is slow to respond or sticking. If you look it can deviate by as much as 300 and any time the requested pressure changes it takes a while to reach the new pressure and usually overshoots. That leads me to believe it is a pump issue. I haven't seen this behaviour on a 335 but it is classic indicator of IPR issues on a diesel. That is why I wanted to check with you before recommending replacement. As you can see from the idle when it was surging the hp actual was surging. Now i'm not sure if that is a symptom of the surge and just indicates that the pump is having trouble meeting requested or if it is causing it which I think is unlikely. Let me know what you think of the above. I still don't have much experience diagnosing these cars and I have trouble visualizing causes to issues that I haven't seen on one of my cars or in the engine literature.

[SteveAZ]

I see what you're talking about. With the exception of the last one, in the above logs I don't really see anything out of the ordinary for our platform. I don't believe the HPFP solenoid does a great job of regulating but sometimes better than others. Part of that has to do with most of our logs being done in third gear and for those that are making good power....it's a pretty fast and violent transition for the fuel system. However you'll typically see that in 4th and 5th gear it calms down quite a bit. Add in the fact that there is an orifice plate at the front of the rail, the "HPFP sensor" is at the back of the rail, the solenoid is at the inlet of the HPFP, HPFP pressure pulses, LPFP pressure pulses...yada, yada....while some seem to do a little better than others...it's just not an ideal setup.

As for it responding to requested pressure drops, the only way it's going to reduce pressure is for that pressure to be bled off via the injectors but again, that has to be done while maintaining pressure as well. It can't really bleed it off via the solenoid as there are check valves in the HPFP itself.

In the diesel world, what pressure do they run their low pressure pumps at?

That last screenshot...what log is that from? Got a link, and does it have trims logged in it as well.

I've actually made my HPFP do something similar and corrected it via the scalar. However my situation is a bit unique due to my ethanol content.

[Ingeniator]

Originally Posted by SteveAZ

I see what you're talking about. With the exception of the last one, in the above logs I don't really see anything out of the ordinary for our platform. I don't believe the HPFP solenoid does a great job of regulating but sometimes better than others. Part of that has to do with most of our logs being done in third gear and for those that are making good power....it's a pretty fast and violent transition for the fuel system. However you'll typically see that in 4th and 5th gear it calms down quite a bit. Add in the fact that there is an orifice plate at the front of the rail, the "HPFP sensor" is at the back of the rail, the solenoid is at the inlet of the HPFP, HPFP pressure pulses, LPFP pressure pulses...yada, yada....while some seem to do a little better than others...it's just not an ideal setup.

As for it responding to requested pressure drops, the only way it's going to reduce pressure is for that pressure to be bled off via the injectors but again, that has to be done while maintaining pressure as well. It can't really bleed it off via the solenoid as there are check valves in the HPFP itself.

In the diesel world, what pressure do they run their low pressure pumps at?

That last screenshot...what log is that from? Got a link, and does it have trims logged in it as well.

I've actually made my HPFP do something similar and corrected it via the scalar. However my situation is a bit unique due to my ethanol content.

Last log screenshot is this one. http://www.datazap.me/u/moswissa/idl...18-19-20-21-22

This one from @carlsontheflyer shoes similar behaviour. No additional points unfortunately but same hpfp behaviour. http://datazap.me/u/carlsontheflyer/...log=0&data=1-2

As for trims. This is the only one I've seen with them. It has no pressures though. It is @924er's http://datazap.me/u/moswissa/stage-1...18-19-20-21-22

As fro diesels it depends on if your talking piezo or heui injectors. But anywhere from55-70psi on the low side.

As for the High pressure control. I thought the only checkvalve was between the pump discharge and the rail port and the IPR was after that.

[924er]

Originally Posted by SteveAZ

Sorry, I meant to reply to this last night and got distracted.



Second, I'm not seeing any issues with the HPFP or LPFP...am I missing something?

As for your throttle closures in that latest log, those look to me to be boost related. @allen@ptf can help you out with that

In the screenshot below, you'll see that those throttle closures all coincide with the boost mean exceeding the requested boost.




As for the issues with rough idle. I'd like to see the STFT's and LTFT's at idle when this is happening.

cool sounds good I was hoping my hpfp was ok because i feel like my car is faster than ever. I will contact allen from PTF and have himi check my logs out. i been wanting to tune my car with them but waiting for DPs.

Ill post some more logs later. what map do you recommend me running with this 91 octane stuff. i do have e85 nearby but I'm not too sure if i should mix some for everyday daily driving

[SteveAZ]

Originally Posted by Ingeniator

Last log screenshot is this one. http://www.datazap.me/u/moswissa/idl...18-19-20-21-22

This one from @carlsontheflyer shoes similar behaviour. No additional points unfortunately but same hpfp behaviour. http://datazap.me/u/carlsontheflyer/...log=0&data=1-2

As for trims. This is the only one I've seen with them. It has no pressures though. It is @924er's http://datazap.me/u/moswissa/stage-1...18-19-20-21-22

As fro diesels it depends on if your talking piezo or heui injectors. But anywhere from55-70psi on the low side.

As for the High pressure control. I thought the only checkvalve was between the pump discharge and the rail port and the IPR was after that.

Bummer, none of those logs have the trims and the one that does is WOT so that doesn't really help with the idling issue.

I follow what you're saying....you're right...I was thinking of it backwards internally to the HPFP. But it is quite common for the rail pressures to overshoot target by 200-300psi, I have log after log of this on old and new HPFPs and it is very repeatable.

Originally Posted by 924er

cool sounds good I was hoping my hpfp was ok because i feel like my car is faster than ever. I will contact allen from PTF and have himi check my logs out. i been wanting to tune my car with them but waiting for DPs.

Ill post some more logs later. what map do you recommend me running with this 91 octane stuff. i do have e85 nearby but I'm not too sure if i should mix some for everyday daily driving

I believe they offer updated tunes for mod changes. You may want to verify that.

Why not just run E30? I honestly don't play with any of the Cobb maps much as our 91 is crap, so I never run it. I'd definitely stick with stage 1 drive or sport maps though.

[xtrackdog]

Vibration felt through the seat at idle. No adverse effects on driving.

One motor mount had collapsed. Replaced both. Problem fixed for me. 52k miles

[924er]

Originally Posted by SteveAZ

Why not just run E30? I honestly don't play with any of the Cobb maps much as our 91 is crap, so I never run it. I'd definitely stick with stage 1 drive or sport maps though.

I need downpipes to run the e30 maps according to cobb, i will eventually get them'

for now ill log a stage 1 sport with 91 and see how it goes.

Here is a 20%e85 stage 1 aggressive i did, the car pulled really nice.
http://www.datazap.me/u/moswissa/agg...og=0&data=1-18

[924er]

Originally Posted by xtrackdog

Vibration felt through the seat at idle. No adverse effects on driving.

One motor mount had collapsed. Replaced both. Problem fixed for me. 52k miles

i was thinking that but the shaking is inconsistent.

[Allen@MOTIV]

The vibration issue could be from any number of issues but intake valves is a strong candidate. Grabbing a log at idle of the issue can provide insight.

As far as your 3rd gear log @steveaz was dead on(as usual) that it's boost control related as to why TPS is dropping out. If you're interested we can take care of that and our retuning for adding bolt-ons is free.

[924er]

Originally Posted by Allen@PTF

The vibration issue could be from any number of issues but intake valves is a strong candidate. Grabbing a log at idle of the issue can provide insight.

As far as your 3rd gear log @steveaz was dead on(as usual) that it's boost control related as to why TPS is dropping out. If you're interested we can take care of that and our retuning for adding bolt-ons is free.

THe idle issue hasn't been happening lately my car has been idling at 7-850rpm. logs show good fuel pressures so I'm not worried anymore. i can live with vibrations until i get my valves cleaned.

as for the tune I'm very interested how can i get started? I was thinking about taking advantage of the e85 station by my house and run a low %, would that be a safe option for everyday longterm use??

here is an idle log
http://www.datazap.me/u/moswissa/idl...18-19-20-21-22

[924er]

Originally Posted by Ingeniator

Wait and see if @SteveAZ has an opinion. I'm thinking your issues are caused by the internal IPR but I don't have as much experience as him with our fuelling system.

Originally Posted by SteveAZ

As for the issues with rough idle. I'd like to see the STFT's and LTFT's at idle when this is happening.

ok i got a catalog tho its probably not the best one because i barely flashed it then went for a drive. i couldn't make it up to redline. this is with e85 20%. Why is my boost fluctuating from 13-14psi?

http://www.datazap.me/u/moswissa/sta...og=0&data=1-21

[carlsontheflyer]

Sorry I was out of town for a while. I have a data log I've been meaning to post. This is engine idling when fully warmed up. You can see in the log wild, and I mean WILD fuel pressure fluctuations. This doesn't happen all the time. It's completely random. As a matter of fact, I have several data logs since then and I haven't seen this behavior since. But this is a clear indication that something is definitely wrong. The car was shaking while this was happening. After the restart the number were much more normal and no shaking.

And as usual, there are no codes whatsoever, and the car performs great under load, anywhere from partial throttle to WOT.

http://datazap.me/u/carlsontheflyer/...0&data=1-17-18

[924er]

ok just wanted to update. lately the shaking has been getting worse. I drive a 6AT so whenever I release the brake my car doesn't roll as smooth anymore its very choppy. although my RPMs are somewhat steady it still shakes pretty good. the car pulls like a train and logs look good.

does this just sound like carbon build up? I'm only 35k miles. I wonder if the dealership can shell blast under CPO my car is throwing no codes at all

[Zach1328]

Originally Posted by 924er

ok just wanted to update. lately the shaking has been getting worse. I drive a 6AT so whenever I release the brake my car doesn't roll as smooth anymore its very choppy. although my RPMs are somewhat steady it still shakes pretty good. the car pulls like a train and logs look good.

does this just sound like carbon build up? I'm only 35k miles. I wonder if the dealership can shell blast under CPO my car is throwing no codes at all

I've started having similar issues ever since I changed my spark plugs. I need to go back and check the spark plug gaps, but I don't think that would cause my rough idling.

I'm guessing its either intake valves or a leaky injector. The only thing about intake valves is my '08 535i is at 61k miles and has never had the intake valves cleaned. It idles pretty smooth other than an occasional stutter, so it would be hard to imagine 35k miles with dirty intake valves would cause a rough idle.

My 335i is at 78k miles but I'm not sure whether or not the intake valves have ever been cleaned. However, the idle was amazingly smooth before changing my plugs so I doubt its my intake valves.

I hate trying to diagnose things on the n54 without codes. Guess I'll be checking the gaps on my plugs and cleaning my intake valves. If that doesn't work I'm back to square one...

[chili36]

My car was doing the same. Got the valves blasted and all is good now. Car idles buttery smooth.
There are a couple of local So.Cal guys that do the blast for cheap.

Here's a link to the guy that did mine and a few other members on this board...
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=960708

[Zach1328]

Originally Posted by chili36

My car was doing the same. Got the valves blasted and all is good now. Car idles buttery smooth.
There are a couple of local So.Cal guys that do the blast for cheap.

Here's a link to the guy that did mine and a few other members on this board...
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=960708

Did your rough idle pop-up suddenly or did it start slowly and then progressively get worse?
My idle was buttery smooth before changing the spark plugs and then all hell broke loose with the new plugs. It now idles like a piece of junk.

[chili36]

Originally Posted by Zach1328

Did your rough idle pop-up suddenly or did it start slowly and then progressively get worse?
My idle was buttery smooth before changing the spark plugs and then all hell broke loose with the new plugs. It now idles like a piece of junk.

Progressively worse...

Did you insert your coils correctly after the plug install? Make sure the are pushed all the way down.

If you opted out of stock plugs did you gap them correctly?

[shawntech]

mine only does this SLIGHLY at cold start, after a moment of running it idles so smoothly you can't tell it's running... no codes, no drivability problems. Dealer has checked several times, no faults found and I have checked cylinder roughness with INPA.

frustrating.

[Zach1328]

Originally Posted by chili36

Progressively worse...

Did you insert your coils correctly after the plug install? Make sure the are pushed all the way down.

If you opted out of stock plugs did you gap them correctly?

I didn't check to make sure they were gapped properly, however I went with the Bosch OEM plugs. Double checked the coils the day after I changed plugs and they were all in place securely.

I think I'm going to pull the plugs again anyways to check for fuel (in-case of leaky injectors) so I might as well check the gaps too. Based on the looks of my previous plugs I'm thinking its possibly a leaky injector in cylinder 1.

[chili36]

Originally Posted by Zach1328

I didn't check to make sure they were gapped properly, however I went with the Bosch OEM plugs. Double checked the coils the day after I changed plugs and they were all in place securely.

I think I'm going to pull the plugs again anyways to check for fuel (in-case of leaky injectors) so I might as well check the gaps too. Based on the looks of my previous plugs I'm thinking its possibly a leaky injector in cylinder 1.

Unless you went with NGK plugs you do not need to gap plugs.