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12-09-2013, 11:39 AM | #67 | |
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CSL As in the CSL variant of the E46 M3. A car that is noticeably faster around the track than any of the cars mentioned in this thread, and easily the most focused and competent car BMW has made in years. A car that uses 13.5" rotors under a 19" wheel. And no, that is the front wheel. I really have to know how you decided that the front bumper fender line was some how the rear of the car. Or that they are running a 225 on the rear of an E46 M3.
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12-09-2013, 12:35 PM | #68 |
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I'm real sure BMWs line of thinking was "We must make the rotor look like it is filling the whole wheel, forget about performance"
Oh, and Z4Ms are cooler because they use ZCP/CSL Rotors on a 18" wheel |
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12-09-2013, 12:35 PM | #69 | |
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BTW, it's the caliper that tells me that's a rear brake. Of course, being 10 years old, I could be wrong...BMW always lagged in brake technology, maybe those are mousy little front calipers...if BMW really wanted to build a light, fast car, why would they use cast-iron calipers, when aluminum caliper would save some serious un-sprung weight??
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12-09-2013, 12:41 PM | #70 | |
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A BMW Z4M Coupe did beat the 1M Coupe on the Nurburgring. With old, outdated brakes, naturally aspirated power, and no stupid electronics. 8:12 - BMW Z4M Coupe 8:15 - BMW 1 Series M Coupe Oh...and that BMW CSL we are talking about? 7:50 - BMW M3 CSL http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...eife_lap_times LOL. I love this. |
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12-09-2013, 12:50 PM | #71 |
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LoL. Glad I could start a debate through a simple question. lmfao.
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12-09-2013, 01:09 PM | #72 |
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LOL, I said that to piss off StG...yes, I'm well aware how fast the CSL was, even with it's mouse brakes...the big surprise is that Z4M coupe....like I've said before, that is a bad-ass little machine....hmmm, a guy is bugging me for my M roadster, I think I'm going to let it go...I know exactly what car I'm going to replace it with...
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12-09-2013, 01:31 PM | #73 | |
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You really have no idea how to push my buttons if you think making yourself the laughing stock of this thread is the best way to do it. Oh, and FYI the CSL is significantly lighter.
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12-09-2013, 03:15 PM | #74 |
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Kgolf,
Give me your opinion of this: 2007 Z4M, black/tan, 22k miles, car is flawless, no track days or autocross, OZ Ultraleggeria's, asking $31...High, low, or good price? Stock brakes but I'll fix that....
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12-09-2013, 03:27 PM | #75 | |
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a) ABS engages when the brake caliper fully locks the wheel. That's it's function. b) Could you engage ABS with the stock brakes? Hint: every BMW sold in the last 30 years can, even with R comps on. c) If so: the brake system has sufficient braking torque (your favorite ) to maximize the grip of the tire in a braking event. Making it easier to lock the wheel will not shorten your stopping distances. The grip available is the limiting factor of braking in all semi recent cars (last 30 years at least for BMW). Which is not to say I'm against BBK's-- I have a BBK on my M5, street M3, and M3 race car. Real BBKs, too-- not the BMW performance kit with cracking pistons when driven hard and not truly floating rotors. I'm just realistic about what their benefits are. Namely, increased heat capacity, decreased unsprung/rotating mass, longer pad life, and better pedal feel.
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12-09-2013, 03:53 PM | #76 | |
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"Making it easier to lock the wheel" Just because you've added bigger brakes doesn't mean you lock the wheels with every brake application. Especially when you've replaced crappy run-flats with max-performance summer tires. "Better pedal feel" That's it! You got it! Better pedal feel....what I've been saying all along....they feel better... My favorite part of your dissertation is where you point out all your cars have big brakes...can't argue with that!
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12-09-2013, 04:32 PM | #77 | |
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You should really listen to Obioban, he knows what he's talking about. Same with St|g. Source: Go to M3forums.net and search his name. |
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12-09-2013, 04:42 PM | #78 | |
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"Feel" isn't even slightly what you were arguing. Remember when you were trying to cite stopping distances as evidence? Yeah, that has nothing to do with feel. Feel is like electronic power steering vs hydraulic power steering-- how well the car conveys what's occurring to the driver. You could also improve feel with solid guide pins and stainless lines, if that's all that's important to you, btw.
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12-09-2013, 05:53 PM | #79 | |
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I have no experience racing with ABS...in the early 80's, our RX-7 IMSA car did not have ABS, although it was becoming more popular by the minute. I remember talking to Sam Posey at Daytona around 1979 or 80, he was telling Mike and I how the brake pedal on the CSL would pulse as it kept the wheels from locking...he ranted on how confident he felt with it, especially in the rain. We realized that it would be impossible to compete with that kind of advantage, although a few years later, we finished 6th overall and 1st in GTU at Sebring, beating all the BMW's...only one finished, an old 2002 that was fast and sturdy as hell. Thought I'd throw in this photo of the car on Mazda's bragging poster...it was also in the centerfold of Mazda's RX-7 sales brochure in like '84 or '85. You can see the brake ducts on the front air dam are closed off...we think the only time we did that was Daytona one year when it was freezing cold, that's apparently when the photo was taken. The carbon rotors and pucks need some heat before they'll bite. You can barely see the fans on the BBS wheels, they of course suck air from under the car and cool the brakes...
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12-09-2013, 05:55 PM | #80 | |
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Usually the car value dips in the winter, mostly because people need to move the car to avoid storage. I bought mine (07 w/22k miles on it) for 29k shipped via trailer. This was 3 years ago. If you factor in the wheels, it could be a decent price...although modifications don't increase car value...IMO |
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12-09-2013, 06:06 PM | #81 | |
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12-09-2013, 06:13 PM | #82 | |
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Completely different driving style than a 1M, very easy to get on the power early and let the car track out...since you sit so far back on the rear wheels you can feel everything the car is doing. Good luck, keep me updated. Not as rare as a 1M, but rare enough |
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12-09-2013, 06:16 PM | #83 | |
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Judging pad feel with unbedded pads is completely, 100% useless-- with a BBK or stock. So, what you're really saying is... you have absolutely no idea how the 128i brakes actually feel. Would be like judging carbon brakes by how they feel when cold-- they must suck!
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