Need help deciding between a 128i and 135i!!!

[NorthernDancer]

Don't think anyone has mentioned it but how about a BMW driving school complete with a very experienced BMW driving instructor?

[128Convertibleguy]

Originally Posted by Spannerhead

I really don't understand why any enthusiast would get an auto hardtop 1-series.

I don't get the hardtop deal, but maybe I can make the auto understandable, even if you personally don't like them.

Some of us, after many years of driving clutch and stick manuals, have decided the overall enthusiastic experience is better with some kind of auto.

Maybe it was driving realistic racing simulations that was the "aha!" moment for me. It soon became clear to me that the more interesting stuff was figuring out and driving the line and how to blend braking and steering wheel angle and acceleration, in various corners. "Filling the traction circle". By comparison shifting a clutch and stick was just an uninteresting chore. Paddle shifters to choose a gear, and an automatic clutch, seemed optimum. Basically, a modern race car setup.

Today, professional racing drivers and organizations agree. Pros wouldn't drive a clutch and stick manual unless the rules required them to. I'll bet many (most?) of their DDs are not clutch and stick manuals. Few sanctioning bodies require them, except in stock based cars, and often not then.

Many high end sports cars, such as the Ferrari 458, are not available with a clutch and stick manual. It's not because they think all their owners don't know how, it's that they consider a clutch and stick too low tech. And clearly they're not afraid of losing market share to cars with clutch and stick manuals.

To say that the owners of those cars do not qualify as enthusiasts is like saying those who don't listen to vinyl any more are not music lovers. Or those who don't take pictures on film are not photographers. Or...

I'm not trying to get you to change your personal preferences. My only point is that driving an auto is perfectly understandable for an enthusiast, especially those of us who are drawn to the latest in technology and/or modern racing technology.

But I really don't get that hardtop thing. <grin>

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by 128Convertibleguy

I don't get the hardtop deal, but maybe I can make the auto understandable, even if you personally don't like them.

Some of us, after many years of driving clutch and stick manuals, have decided the overall enthusiastic experience is better with some kind of auto.

Maybe it was driving realistic racing simulations that was the "aha!" moment for me. It soon became clear to me that the more interesting stuff was figuring out and driving the line, and how to blend braking and steering wheel angle and acceleration in various corners. "Filling the traction circle". By comparison shifting a clutch and stick was just an uninteresting chore. Paddle shifters to choose a gear, and an automatic clutch, seemed optimum. Basically, a modern race car setup.

Today, professional racing drivers and organizations agree. Pros wouldn't drive a clutch and stick manual unless the rules required them to. I'll bet many (most?) of their DDs are not clutch and stick manuals. Few sanctioning bodies require them, except in stock based cars, and often not then.

Many high end sports cars, such as the Ferrari 458, are not available with a clutch and stick manual. To say that the owners of those cars do not qualify as enthusiasts is like saying those who don't listen to vinyl any more are not music lovers. Or those who don't take pictures on film are not photographers. Or...

I'm not trying to get you to change your personal preferences. My only point is that driving an auto is perfectly understandable for an enthusiast, especially those of us who are drawn to the latest in technology.

But I really don't get that hardtop thing. <grin>

A) race car drivers are trying to shave milliseconds off a lap time.
B) you are not.
C) but that's ok---because you are not a race car driver.
D) race car drivers don't drive race cars for 'enjoyment'.
E) it is their 'job'.
F) most of us do not drive our cars as our 'job'.
G) we may drive them to get to our 'job'.
H) we are not race car drivers.

[128Convertibleguy]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

H) we are not race car drivers.

Some of us like to pretend. Especially if we're old (wheel to wheel) racers. I'd rather pretend to be Hamilton than Fangio. :-)

Seriously, these days I like driving a twisty mountain road better with an auto. But a hardtop would suck the life out of it, for me.

No absolute right and wrong here, just personal choices. I don't listen to vinyl or take pictures on film anymore, either.

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by 128Convertibleguy

Some of us like to pretend. :-)

[Spannerhead]

Originally Posted by angler

Not to be defensive but really? Why would there be a difference between driving an auto on a hard top compared to a vert? With my vert I am sure I can out drive most of the people that have hard top's. Auto's suck no matter what car you have IMO.

I think it's a perception thing. With the exception of small sports cars like Caterhams, Miatas, etc, convertibles seem less "hardcore" than hardtops, more compromised. Has nothing to do with the actual ability of the car or the driver.

Originally Posted by 128Convertibleguy

I don't get the hardtop deal, but maybe I can make the auto understandable, even if you personally don't like them.

Some of us, after many years of driving clutch and stick manuals, have decided the overall enthusiastic experience is better with some kind of auto.

...

IMO, slushboxes and dual-clutch transmissions occupy two different categories. DCT is acceptable for the enthusiast and desirable for the professional. Unless you're drag racing, an auto isn't typically the trans of choice.

As has been said, all personal preferences. The reason I gravitate toward the E82 in the first place is the prospect of a more organic, "unplugged" experience in a modern BMW, hence the desire for a traditional 3-pedal manual and the mechanical feedback that provides.

I still listen to vinyl and tote around an ancient flip phone, BTW. So there's that.

[Overpar56]

Someone put a bullet in this thread.

[Ed P]

Funny thing... The same discussion is ongoing over on the MX-5 Miata forums (my last car--as of about 2 weeks ago--was a 2006 "NC" MX-5).

My MX-5 had the 6-speed AT with paddle shifters, and it was damn good/fun. Not as good as the DCT, but certainly crisper and more engaging than your average slush-box.

Anywho... Debating it is a little silly... Like debating color choice...

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by Ed P

Funny thing... The same discussion is ongoing over on the MX-5 Miata forums (my last car--as of about 2 weeks ago--was a 2006 "NC" MX-5).

My MX-5 had the 6-speed AT with paddle shifters, and it was damn good/fun. Not as good as the DCT, but certainly crisper and more engaging than your average slush-box.

Anywho... Debating it is a little silly... Like debating color choice...

Buying a small fun 'old school-like' sports car like a Miata with an Automatic gearbox is like paying a hooker to make you Vegetable Lipton Cup-A-Soup on a Sunday afternoon......WHY!?

DCT i can understand. NON-DCT.....no i do not understand.

[128Convertibleguy]

Here's the thing. Imagine driving a twisty mountain road on a beautiful day. Two choices, same car two ways. One's a convertible auto. The other's a manual hardtop.

For me, no question which is the better automotive experience. The wind in my hair, the sun shining down, and the view, beat the "joy" of rowing the manual hands down. At any speed, slow, medium, or fast.

I wonder if it has anything to do with riding motorcycles? Manuals for those work properly, your hand does the fine operation, the clutch, while your foot does the simple part. No weird shift pattern with funny linkage, just constant mesh gears and a grooved drum providing progressive shifting. You don't care as much about acceleration in the car, because your bike is so much faster than your car that the car will seem slow in any event.

If you don't find that convincing, put a beautiful girl in the passenger's seat. Which is going to turn her on more. At any speed. :-)

[the1andonly]

Originally Posted by 128Convertibleguy

Here's the thing. Imagine driving a twisty mountain road on a beautiful day. Two choices, same car two ways. One's a convertible auto. The other's a manual hardtop.

For me, no question which is the better automotive experience. The wind in my hair, the sun shining down, and the view, beat the "joy" of rowing the manual hands down. At any speed, slow, medium, or fast.

I wonder if it has anything to do with riding motorcycles? Manuals for those work properly, your hand does the fine operation, the clutch, while your foot does the simple part. No weird shift pattern with funny linkage, just constant mesh gears and a grooved drum providing progressive shifting. You don't care as much about acceleration in the car, because your bike is so much faster than your car that the car will seem slow in any event.

If you don't find that convincing, put a beautiful girl in the passenger's seat. Which is going to turn her on more. At any speed. :-)

Manual hardtop. Thats where I thought you were going...convertible I can understand but you lost me at Auto...

[Ed P]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

Buying a small fun 'old school-like' sports car like a Miata with an Automatic gearbox is like paying a hooker to make you Vegetable Lipton Cup-A-Soup on a Sunday afternoon......WHY!?

DCT i can understand. NON-DCT.....no i do not understand.

I understand your question and viewpoint.

Truth be told, I would have preferred MT. But where I live, plus traffic, MT would be more a chore during the commute than pleasure. Also, my wife wanted to be able to drive it occasionally. So yeah, I compromised a bit, but it was still fun with the paddle shifters. Another benefit was the taller gearing of the AT--great for hwy mileage (my commute is 40 miles one-way, mostly hwy).

I feel pretty confident I'll have another MX-5 one day. 90% sure i will be retired or semi-retired, so it will be a MT.