It's PARTY TIME!

BMWDave · 09-02-2008, 10:06 PM

I'm sorry, while I appreciate that everyone has "education" and "science" at heart with these discussions, I can't help but think that i'm reading a p*ssing competition.

I see it this way: The JB3, for $700 odd is a steal for those that want to plug in and get big numbers with ease. Terry @ BMS has obviously done a lot of homework and has made a great chip which has produced good results on Kris' car. Well done mate, awesome numbers :smile:

The AA Processor, as seen in Wayne's car, has also made a massive difference in power, producing equally good results. Are they as high as Kris'? Hard to say, different dynos, different dyno types, different days, different many things. Either way, neither of you would be upset at your numbers.

End of the day, people will ultimately choose which mod suits them. Personally, I think you're both very brave screwing that much power out of your fresh engines so early. If I mod, i'm going probably down pipes and SSTT cause i'm not game to a) wind the boost up too high or b) ticker in any way/shape/form with my ECM.

Enjoy your bloody fast rides gentlemen

Kris · 09-02-2008, 10:08 PM

All good points Dave! Agree!

WAY · 09-02-2008, 11:01 PM

Totally agree Dave. Not interested in pissing match, I am interested in people understanding what they are doing to get extra power. Kris doesn't want to listen to me when I tell him that I have never logged my boost reading with just a chip and no downpipe. He keeps insisting that my boost will increase another 1 to 1.5psi with the DP lol. Kris, didn't we already have this conversation on the Tex a few days ago?

All I want is for those who are interested in chipping your car to understand this. There is no free power. You want more, you up the boost. Alternatively, you free up the breathing restriction by getting DP and exhaust and air intake and intercooler. It's that simple. We can argue until the cows come home as to what is a safe boost level but the reality is that we don't know. At the moment, I am sticking with a lower boost, and only upping it with VP109 and a race map. But that is not to say that the JB3 is not safe, far from it. But because I drive this car harder than most of you ever will with track events every few weeks, I don't want to push my luck. But don't worry Dave, if it blows, I am more than ready to rebuild the engine. It's a track car afterall and I am fine with that. But I take comfort in that Active tune has been used on race winning 135i with no issue, and I personally have had no issue on the track either. And Kris obviously doesn't use his car like I do, and for his purpose the JB3 may be perfect. Anyway this is the last thing I am going to post on this thread, so good luck everyone in your decisions!

Kris · 09-02-2008, 11:08 PM

Wayne, no you've misunderstood me again. I said LOG BOOST WITH a CHIP and WITH a DOWNPIPE.

I'll spell it for you again. A reduction in exhaust back pressure by the use of a downpipe WILL result a turbo boost increase of 1-2 psi, without the use of an external boost controller. Thats BASICS of turbocharging and exhaust. Now, because you claim you have NOT logged your boost pressure, how you tell me you're at a "SAFE" boost pressure?

I'm all for facts Wayne. And I'm telling you facts.

You can search the internet for proof of this, but here is more:

http://www.tprmag.com/issue/17/17_sti.shtml (search for diameter)
http://www.importtuner.com/powerpage...wrx/index.html (search for increase)

There are loads more.

Zuzu · 09-02-2008, 11:11 PM

Wayne Considerring you dont wont this to be a pissing match (which at the moment it seems to be), why do you keep egging Kris on for a response..lol..

As far as I am concerned its all good to consider your car (whoever you are ) to have the best chip/best tune/best times etc etc etc...

..After all its your beast, and you have modded it to the best of your knowledge at the time..

Thats what competition is all about...its all healthy and macho to want to have the BEST CAR on the block..:biggrin:

WAY · 09-02-2008, 11:30 PM

Joe, I ask him legit questions because I am interested, not to egg him on. As I said to him on another forum, these things cost $1k, if it is better for my application, why wouldn't I change? I am going to be spending $20-30k by the time I am done with this car (already well on my way!), as if $1k is going to bother me? I want the best, but best is not just about power for me, it's about being able to drive at 6800rpm without feeling like I should have just changed up at 5500rpm, and it's about not over stresssing the engine when I am on WOT 75% of the time on track days. Kris doesn't care about these things. He is just interested in the most power for the least amount of money. And that is fair enough for him, but he seems to take every question I have as an attack on his choice.

Kris, read what I wrote again. I said I have never logged the boost without a DP, not I have never logged the boost. How else would I have known what boost we were seeing if I didn't log the boost??? Anyway, I am not interested in this discussion anymore as I said above. When Terry comes up with a DP tune, then I will be interested in talking to him. In the meantime, I am happy with mine and you are happy with yours. In fact, I am happy that you are happy with your JB3!

Jase · 09-02-2008, 11:32 PM

First off AWESOME numbers Kris!!!!

DAVE, after just going for a ride in swift's car again about an hour ago ( with his new Conti's, i will let him tell you about that) I can say that you wont be dissappointed in the SSTT at all. I think I am going down the same track as you and SSTT is looking the goods for me also (he also has a helene filter). It drives GREAT!!!

By the way I drove his car with the V30??? tune. I also agree that his car runs smoother then ( not talking about power either ) mine and I will be booking mine in to have the new software downloaded when it is available.. Maybe we are both wrong but it definately feels smoother..

Hey Kris his songs do change faster also HAHAHAHA

Kris · 09-02-2008, 11:38 PM

Hey Jase, awesome!! I want that update then. Drives me insane

Can't wait to hear about the Contis.. im still waiting for mine to turn up!

Wayne, ok. You've never logged boost WITH or WITHOUT a DP. Fine. So, given that point, how you can sit there and say you're running less boost than me? You've never logged it. Given I just pointed out the facts about downpipes and turbo charging why do you think you're using a SAFER tune (ie less boost) when you have no facts?

This is my point. Be great if Andrew can come in and clarify.

WAY · 09-02-2008, 11:43 PM

Kris, learn to read.

professor · 09-03-2008, 12:01 AM

i doubt that we will get much sharing of information if we invite each other to comment on their products or chosen modifications with the sole purpose of bringing them or a vendor down once they have. the fact is that no two people with different mods are going to agree that the other has a better deal. i therefore suggest we do not make any comparisons thinking we are mature enough to keep it civil. just a thought...

Zuzu · 09-03-2008, 12:16 AM

Well said Professor..

Kris · 09-03-2008, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WAY

Kris, learn to read.

Wayne, my reading ability is fine. I wouldn't stoop so low as to resort to personal attacks on you.

END.

WAY · 09-03-2008, 02:14 AM

I apologise for doing that Kris. Not the intention. But again, please read through everything I have written in the last few post again. Anyway, doesn't matter. As I said, you are happy with the product, and that is the most important thing. You are taking your calculated longer term risk on higher boost and I am taking my risk on using my car as a track car. If anyone's engine is going to blow first it's going to be mine lol which is why I don't want to take on a higher boost unless I have the fuel to do it with.

Prof, I am not putting down JB3 at all. I think it's a great product, but it isn't for everyone.

taiheung · 09-03-2008, 03:10 AM

I just asked the question because I wanted fact, not opinion. Sigh!

shauno · 09-03-2008, 04:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WAY

Is that right? I am installing a bigger FMIC this week, but I actually thought that it doesn't do anything for reducing the engine temp. Infact, I would have thought it will increase the engine temp as it is making the engine work harder. I thought I need larger oil cooler in order to reduce the engine temp? Or better still a water/meth spray kit. :w00t:

Yeah it does usually because of reduced inlet temperatures and increased airflow. It does have a tendency to increase boost slightly as well that's from my previous experience moding turbo cars. Assuming you can mod the fuel as well as ignition maps and boost you should be able to produce some really nice numbers but I reckon the turbos will run out of airflow fairly quickly being so small. And the fact they produce so much torque off idle shows you they must be very small. If you've got the money id look into replacing the turbos with slightly bigger units and take full advantage of the 3lt capacity like a stroker GTR

Jaymz · 09-03-2008, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shauno

Yeah it does usually because of reduced inlet temperatures and increased airflow. It does have a tendency to increase boost slightly as well that's from my previous experience moding turbo cars. Assuming you can mod the fuel as well as ignition maps and boost you should be able to produce some really nice numbers but I reckon the turbos will run out of airflow fairly quickly being so small. And the fact they produce so much torque off idle shows you they must be very small. If you've got the money id look into replacing the turbos with slightly bigger units and take full advantage of the 3lt capacity like a stroker GTR

I was going to say that. So who's going to be first to pull 300rwkw? :thumbup: It won't be long before someone has some high-flow stock units available.

I think you are all making excellent numbers though for what is ecentually a street driven car

Wraith · 09-03-2008, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shauno

Yeah it does usually because of reduced inlet temperatures and increased airflow. It does have a tendency to increase boost slightly as well that's from my previous experience moding turbo cars. Assuming you can mod the fuel as well as ignition maps and boost you should be able to produce some really nice numbers but I reckon the turbos will run out of airflow fairly quickly being so small. And the fact they produce so much torque off idle shows you they must be very small. If you've got the money id look into replacing the turbos with slightly bigger units and take full advantage of the 3lt capacity like a stroker GTR

Interesting, based on my previous and current turbo engine experience larger intercoolers or IC's will invariably cause a pressure drop with a resultant boost drop due to the larger capacity/volume of the IC core - not the other way round...

However totally correct, that they provide a better air/air heat exchange ratio and longer running time to heat up which results in a cooler temp. intake charge air...

Another negative effect I've had and seen happen when you use ridiculously large IC's is a definite increase in lag, again due to the larger volume resulting in a pressure drop of the charged air...

I'd suggest not going too much bigger on the IC core volume, especially if your keeping the 135i for street use and definitely not changing over to larger turbos, unless your chasing huge power gains or it is to be a track vehicle only, in which case a single larger turbo conversion may be the better way to go, lag not being of primary concern and that is what is most often done - just look at the GT-R crowd, alot/most of those go from twin to single larger turbos for all out power/performance :wink:

Wraith · 09-03-2008, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaymz

I was going to say that. So who's going to be first to pull 300rwkw? :thumbup: It won't be long before someone has some high-flow stock units available.

I think you are all making excellent numbers though for what is ecentually a street driven car

I think given time - many years down the track the 135i will be the next VL turbo (unfortunately) and in years down the track when they become cheap enough for the young hoons to get their hands on them, you'll be seeing plenty of them modded and running 10's or 9's just like the 3.0ltr turbo VL's are doing nowadays...

Yep 135 · 09-06-2008, 08:04 AM

Kris have aread of this. http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1748
you might be able to have your cake and eat it also.
Yep.

WAY · 09-06-2008, 09:24 AM

Very nice Yep. Kris, you need to get a DP. Trust me, it makes a massive difference. I am a massive fan of the RR catless DP.

MikeVictor · 09-06-2008, 04:55 PM

Bigger exhaust FTW.

It's always been my first port of call modding, and the results are usually excellent if done right.

Kris · 09-06-2008, 06:17 PM

They are using 94 Octane though... The JB3 and then JB3 + DP doesn't show that much power or torque increases..

09-02-2008, 10:06 PM	#89
BMWDave Totally Add1cted 17 Rep 503 Posts Drives: X1 Xdrive23d Join Date: May 2008 Location: Perth, Australia iTrader: (1) Garage List 2011 BMW X1 23d [7.66]	I'm sorry, while I appreciate that everyone has "education" and "science" at heart with these discussions, I can't help but think that i'm reading a p*ssing competition. I see it this way: The JB3, for $700 odd is a steal for those that want to plug in and get big numbers with ease. Terry @ BMS has obviously done a lot of homework and has made a great chip which has produced good results on Kris' car. Well done mate, awesome numbers :smile: The AA Processor, as seen in Wayne's car, has also made a massive difference in power, producing equally good results. Are they as high as Kris'? Hard to say, different dynos, different dyno types, different days, different many things. Either way, neither of you would be upset at your numbers. End of the day, people will ultimately choose which mod suits them. Personally, I think you're both very brave screwing that much power out of your fresh engines so early. If I mod, i'm going probably down pipes and SSTT cause i'm not game to a) wind the boost up too high or b) ticker in any way/shape/form with my ECM. Enjoy your bloody fast rides gentlemen __________________ Proud new owner of a X1 23d in Jet Black
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09-02-2008, 10:08 PM	#90
Kris Colonel 125 Rep 2,295 Posts Drives: m3 Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: USOFA iTrader: (0)	All good points Dave! Agree!
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09-02-2008, 11:01 PM	#91
WAY Brigadier General 463 Rep 4,822 Posts Drives: Fast ones Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia iTrader: (0)	Totally agree Dave. Not interested in pissing match, I am interested in people understanding what they are doing to get extra power. Kris doesn't want to listen to me when I tell him that I have never logged my boost reading with just a chip and no downpipe. He keeps insisting that my boost will increase another 1 to 1.5psi with the DP lol. Kris, didn't we already have this conversation on the Tex a few days ago? All I want is for those who are interested in chipping your car to understand this. There is no free power. You want more, you up the boost. Alternatively, you free up the breathing restriction by getting DP and exhaust and air intake and intercooler. It's that simple. We can argue until the cows come home as to what is a safe boost level but the reality is that we don't know. At the moment, I am sticking with a lower boost, and only upping it with VP109 and a race map. But that is not to say that the JB3 is not safe, far from it. But because I drive this car harder than most of you ever will with track events every few weeks, I don't want to push my luck. But don't worry Dave, if it blows, I am more than ready to rebuild the engine. It's a track car afterall and I am fine with that. But I take comfort in that Active tune has been used on race winning 135i with no issue, and I personally have had no issue on the track either. And Kris obviously doesn't use his car like I do, and for his purpose the JB3 may be perfect. Anyway this is the last thing I am going to post on this thread, so good luck everyone in your decisions!
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09-02-2008, 11:08 PM	#92
Kris Colonel 125 Rep 2,295 Posts Drives: m3 Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: USOFA iTrader: (0)	Wayne, no you've misunderstood me again. I said LOG BOOST WITH a CHIP and WITH a DOWNPIPE. I'll spell it for you again. A reduction in exhaust back pressure by the use of a downpipe WILL result a turbo boost increase of 1-2 psi, without the use of an external boost controller. Thats BASICS of turbocharging and exhaust. Now, because you claim you have NOT logged your boost pressure, how you tell me you're at a "SAFE" boost pressure? I'm all for facts Wayne. And I'm telling you facts. You can search the internet for proof of this, but here is more: http://www.tprmag.com/issue/17/17_sti.shtml (search for diameter) http://www.importtuner.com/powerpage...wrx/index.html (search for increase) There are loads more.
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09-02-2008, 11:11 PM	#93
Zuzu Major General 2821 Rep 7,645 Posts Drives: M2C HS 6MT Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Sydney Australia iTrader: (0)	Wayne Considerring you dont wont this to be a pissing match (which at the moment it seems to be), why do you keep egging Kris on for a response..lol.. As far as I am concerned its all good to consider your car (whoever you are ) to have the best chip/best tune/best times etc etc etc.....After all its your beast, and you have modded it to the best of your knowledge at the time.. Thats what competition is all about...its all healthy and macho to want to have the BEST CAR on the block..:biggrin:
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09-02-2008, 11:30 PM	#94
WAY Brigadier General 463 Rep 4,822 Posts Drives: Fast ones Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia iTrader: (0)	Joe, I ask him legit questions because I am interested, not to egg him on. As I said to him on another forum, these things cost $1k, if it is better for my application, why wouldn't I change? I am going to be spending $20-30k by the time I am done with this car (already well on my way!), as if $1k is going to bother me? I want the best, but best is not just about power for me, it's about being able to drive at 6800rpm without feeling like I should have just changed up at 5500rpm, and it's about not over stresssing the engine when I am on WOT 75% of the time on track days. Kris doesn't care about these things. He is just interested in the most power for the least amount of money. And that is fair enough for him, but he seems to take every question I have as an attack on his choice. Kris, read what I wrote again. I said I have never logged the boost without a DP, not I have never logged the boost. How else would I have known what boost we were seeing if I didn't log the boost??? Anyway, I am not interested in this discussion anymore as I said above. When Terry comes up with a DP tune, then I will be interested in talking to him. In the meantime, I am happy with mine and you are happy with yours. In fact, I am happy that you are happy with your JB3!
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09-02-2008, 11:32 PM	#95
Jase Private 1 Rep 86 Posts Drives: Join Date: Jun 2008 iTrader: (0)	First off AWESOME numbers Kris!!!! DAVE, after just going for a ride in swift's car again about an hour ago ( with his new Conti's, i will let him tell you about that) I can say that you wont be dissappointed in the SSTT at all. I think I am going down the same track as you and SSTT is looking the goods for me also (he also has a helene filter). It drives GREAT!!! By the way I drove his car with the V30??? tune. I also agree that his car runs smoother then ( not talking about power either ) mine and I will be booking mine in to have the new software downloaded when it is available.. Maybe we are both wrong but it definately feels smoother.. Hey Kris his songs do change faster also HAHAHAHA
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09-02-2008, 11:38 PM	#96
Kris Colonel 125 Rep 2,295 Posts Drives: m3 Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: USOFA iTrader: (0)	Hey Jase, awesome!! I want that update then. Drives me insane Can't wait to hear about the Contis.. im still waiting for mine to turn up! Wayne, ok. You've never logged boost WITH or WITHOUT a DP. Fine. So, given that point, how you can sit there and say you're running less boost than me? You've never logged it. Given I just pointed out the facts about downpipes and turbo charging why do you think you're using a SAFER tune (ie less boost) when you have no facts? This is my point. Be great if Andrew can come in and clarify.
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09-02-2008, 11:43 PM	#97
WAY Brigadier General 463 Rep 4,822 Posts Drives: Fast ones Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia iTrader: (0)	Kris, learn to read.
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09-03-2008, 12:01 AM	#98
professor Major 48 Rep 1,473 Posts Drives: Z4 M40i Join Date: Mar 2008 iTrader: (0)	i doubt that we will get much sharing of information if we invite each other to comment on their products or chosen modifications with the sole purpose of bringing them or a vendor down once they have. the fact is that no two people with different mods are going to agree that the other has a better deal. i therefore suggest we do not make any comparisons thinking we are mature enough to keep it civil. just a thought...
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09-03-2008, 12:16 AM	#99
Zuzu Major General 2821 Rep 7,645 Posts Drives: M2C HS 6MT Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Sydney Australia iTrader: (0)	Well said Professor..
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09-03-2008, 02:14 AM	#101
WAY Brigadier General 463 Rep 4,822 Posts Drives: Fast ones Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia iTrader: (0)	I apologise for doing that Kris. Not the intention. But again, please read through everything I have written in the last few post again. Anyway, doesn't matter. As I said, you are happy with the product, and that is the most important thing. You are taking your calculated longer term risk on higher boost and I am taking my risk on using my car as a track car. If anyone's engine is going to blow first it's going to be mine lol which is why I don't want to take on a higher boost unless I have the fuel to do it with. Prof, I am not putting down JB3 at all. I think it's a great product, but it isn't for everyone.
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09-03-2008, 03:10 AM	#102
taiheung Private First Class 3 Rep 150 Posts Drives: Mini Cooper S Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Syd iTrader: (0)	I just asked the question because I wanted fact, not opinion. Sigh!
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09-06-2008, 08:04 AM	#107
Yep 135 Lieutenant 13 Rep 591 Posts Drives: BMW 135 manual Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Canberra iTrader: (0)	Kris have aread of this. http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1748 you might be able to have your cake and eat it also. Yep.
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09-06-2008, 09:24 AM	#108
WAY Brigadier General 463 Rep 4,822 Posts Drives: Fast ones Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia iTrader: (0)	Very nice Yep. Kris, you need to get a DP. Trust me, it makes a massive difference. I am a massive fan of the RR catless DP.
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09-06-2008, 04:55 PM	#109
MikeVictor Brigadier General 214 Rep 3,288 Posts Drives: anything given a chance Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: .au iTrader: (0) Garage List 2016 Mazda ND MX-5 [10.00]	Bigger exhaust FTW. It's always been my first port of call modding, and the results are usually excellent if done right.
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09-06-2008, 06:17 PM	#110
Kris Colonel 125 Rep 2,295 Posts Drives: m3 Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: USOFA iTrader: (0)	They are using 94 Octane though... The JB3 and then JB3 + DP doesn't show that much power or torque increases..
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