01-25-2010, 01:51 PM | #89 | |
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Active Steering, Variable ratio steering, six piston calipers, i-drive (love or hate it), HVAC, Hill Assist, regenerative braking, EfficientDynamic Engine. Ford are always playing catch up i'm afraid, they are, and always will be the blue collar workers method of transport no matter what guise.
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01-25-2010, 01:57 PM | #90 | |
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Many of those things you list don't add complexity (hill assist is nothing but a little code for example) and Efficient Dynamics is nothing more than turning the alternator on and off. I-Drive isn't any more complex than Sync, and Ford has pleny of Automatic HVAC systems. I don't think you've been in one in a while. I don't see where BMW is doing anything that's much more complex than what Ford is, especially on cars like the 1 and 3. |
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01-25-2010, 02:01 PM | #91 | |
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And who cares if they are blue collar workers? Ford started because they gave a car to the masses. If you want luxury buy a Lincoln (its what they are for) Similar to if you want a land yaht you buy a Rolls Royce (still owned BMW I think). BMW started and is only alive today because they produced cheap motorcycles for the common man (Im not counting the aircraft engines that they produced). Its how they rebuilt after WWII. They made the choice to go upscale, but it wasnt always that way. You Euro Snobs are really getting on my nerves. BMWs are far from the best cars on the market...my 01 Mercury Mountaineer (a Ford product) has over 150K miles on it and the only non service item that I have had to fix was a stuck throttle body and I fixed that myself within 15 min of discovering the problem. My 135i is more a rattle pot than my 10 year old Ford. And nomatter what guise? Just look... Last edited by BrokenVert; 01-25-2010 at 07:11 PM.. |
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01-25-2010, 02:06 PM | #92 |
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Oh and finally, the looks, the Mustang will only sell in the US due to it's roots. You may see one or two a year here in Europe, it's too big, too loud and crass. Quite frankly it's a car that's been ressurected from the 60's, kinda like a remix of an old tune that should have been left well alone.
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01-25-2010, 02:12 PM | #93 | |
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01-25-2010, 02:57 PM | #95 | |
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Look, the 1 is a great car, that's why I bought one. But in no way will I disregard the GT as a tough competitor. When these little turbos die, that V8 will still be kicking. |
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01-25-2010, 02:57 PM | #96 |
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The more people call it too loud and crass, the more I like it personally. It was never meant to do anything else! Its just a fun car, performs well for not a lot of money. I don't see why people are so threatened or feel the need to demean them.
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01-25-2010, 05:27 PM | #97 | |
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What we are really talking about are lifestyle differences.Cars are performers,but they also go a long way to define a person. ......I think I'd rather be the guy with a car from Munich...not Detroit.
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01-25-2010, 05:58 PM | #98 | |
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01-25-2010, 06:05 PM | #99 | |
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01-25-2010, 06:20 PM | #100 | |
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You make your ignorance well known with posts like that. You don't have to look far to find a challenging road to drive in this country. The cars we're talking about here equal (or very nearly equal) the 135s fuel economy, while making more power, so they're not thristy, or archaic, and as for the seats, I'd guess they have the UK in mind just about as much as us when they're designing them, considering that you're the 3rd fattest country on the planet. http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/he...health-obesity Spare us the condescention. |
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01-25-2010, 07:03 PM | #101 |
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If i may be so bold as to say this thread seems to be going nowhere, evolving into "my country makes a better car than your country" type of argument (perhaps my dad can beat your dad might be as appropriate).
I for one would like to see this thread closed.
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01-25-2010, 09:48 PM | #103 | |
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It's basically like the 135i with the Sport Package. But with the "Track Package" on the MGT you get upgraded suspension, tires, lower gearing and so forth. They car they got however, was mistakenly delivered with the standard GT's all season tires on it, not the Track Packs high performance rubber. The 315 hp 2010 GT got around VIR faster than the 135i did the previous year. With 100 more hp and Brembo brakes for the 2011 it should lap VIR faster than the front heavy and therefore worse handling GT500, and probably not far behind the e92 M3. This post was a comparison about performance (again clearly on paper since the cars are not out yet). There was no argument as to which car will have more luxuries and refinement, but like many performance cars, luxury and refinement is not what's built into them (you don't buy a Lotus Elise for it's luxury and refinement, same goes for a Corvette). As for low end power, I have had two N54 engines, and as much as BMW wants to claim it has 300 lbs ft of torque at 1400 rpms, I don't buy it. I've dynoed dozens and dozens of N54's and there is NOT peak torque happening anywhere near 1400 rpms, much less even 2000 rpms. I've had many FI cars too, and many of them claim full torque at 1400 or 1800 rpms, and I've never believed that. They will bog and lag down at those rpms. Put an N54 car into 1st gear and lug it around at 1200 rpms. Then mash the throttle. You will NOT be at peak torque 200 rpms later, and you certainly will not be on full boost. There is lag. I'd have to see dynos, but I'd put my money on the 5.0 liter V8 in the 2011 Stang having more torque at 1500 rpms than the N54 does. Now the M1's motor, who knows yet, but regardless of what manufacturers or magazines say, there will always be some lag in a turbocharged car, especially down low in the rpm range. Lastly, I'm again, not quite sure why some people feel you can ONLY compare two cars that are in similiar price range. That mentality is just narrow at best. There are just WAY to many OTHER aspects in cars to say that price is the all encompassing factor in comparisons. |
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01-25-2010, 11:02 PM | #104 | |
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01-25-2010, 11:28 PM | #105 | |
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Your butt dyno isn't the same as a real Dyno chart. The 135i and the subsequent M1 does and will have more low-end torque. Most of what you suggest is opinion and not based on factual evidence..! |
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01-25-2010, 11:50 PM | #106 | |
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Also regardless of whether peak torque comes at 1400 or 3000 RPM, stating that the N54 has turbo lag just doesn't fit either. Even if the engine didnt hit peak torque until 3k, it doesn't exactly lack punch down low. It goes from a making a lot of torque to making a shit-ton of power, and the results speak for themselves. I hope the new Mustang is awesome. Even if it's not for me (and if the performance is good enough it might be. I just don't like the way it looks- it's too reverential for my taste. I didn't live in that era and I don't have sentimental attachment to it. But other people, even younger than me, apparently do) giving people more and better choices, and putting some pressure on BMW is a good thing in my book. However, trying to say that the Mustang will be faster than the M1 based off the N54 being overrated and having "turbo lag"- you lost me there. Regardless, I should certainly hope that with 5.0L and 5 more years of technological advances, that the new Ford V8 is a superior performer, regardless of how much the car costs. End rant.
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01-26-2010, 12:18 AM | #107 | |
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Are you driving the same car we are?!? The N54 absolutely has turbo lag. It's not as bad as an STi or an Evo, but it's still there, and it's very obvious during quick on-off-on throttle transitions, and during gear changes on cars with manual transmissions. The lag doesn't come into play as much during a 0-60 run because as with any car you can build up revs enough that when you dump the clutch you've easily got enough power available to break the tires loose. Also, the times you're quoting for the Mustang are for the old 300Hp version. The new one will, without a doubt be significantly faster than a stock 135i, breaking well into the 12s in the 1/4 mile. The people here using low end torque as an argument against a V8 Mustang don't really make much sense. Lack of bottom end has NEVER been a problem the Mustang (or any other American V8 powered car in recent memory for that matter) suffers from. You'll see them pulling 1.6 60' times on any drag strip in the country all night long with a decent set of tires. |
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01-26-2010, 12:41 AM | #108 | |
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And maybe the n54 does, technically have turbo lag. But from a practical standpoint, if you intend to go fast with a 135i, 'turbo lag', in the traditional sense, isn't going to hold you back. Creating experimental conditions to demonstrate the phenomenon, I think, is meaningless in the context of how the engine is actually used. And I'm not going to bury the M1 until some real data comes out.
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01-26-2010, 05:53 AM | #110 |
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Thats highly unlikely... the 1999-2004 SVT cobra had independent suspension but they went back to a live axle setup because of customer request they said.
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