12-25-2010, 11:21 PM | #111 | ||
Captain
120
Rep 898
Posts
Drives: '69 GT3, GT4, 1M, 912
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: SF Bay Area, Shenzhen, Oman
|
Quote:
Quote:
M3 RPM (8400) / 1M RPM (7000)= 1.20 M3 R&P (3.846) / 1M R&P (3.154) = 1.22 So the final drive is proportional to the power band, not that difficult.
__________________
1M, GT4, 1969 Porsche 911 w/ 997 GT3 Cup Motor (435hp & 2,100 lbs)
|
||
Appreciate
0
|
12-26-2010, 12:13 AM | #112 |
Major General
427
Rep 6,968
Posts |
Why do people bother arguing. People are entitled to their opinion. Some many think 1M is not a true M while others disagree. Certainly not going to change opposite side's mind even if there is solid proof.
__________________
- There's nothing in my pocket other than knives and lint
|
Appreciate
0
|
12-26-2010, 12:15 AM | #113 |
Private
9
Rep 92
Posts |
It's a fun way to kill time until NAIAS and pricing is released (or military sales offers the 1M in my case). :-)
__________________
GStopyra
BMW 135i Space Gray/Coral/Glacier Aluminum MT/M-Sport/ and ALMOST everything else |
Appreciate
0
|
12-26-2010, 12:42 AM | #114 | |
Lieutenant
49
Rep 593
Posts
Drives: 05 M3, 00 Z3MC, Boxster Spyder
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
|
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
12-26-2010, 01:24 AM | #115 | ||
Banned
7909
Rep 11,785
Posts |
Quote:
Because some of us understand BMW M, (the ones of us that aren't complaining) and well, frankly there are a lot of people that apparently don't, because they've got blinders on. We're just here to help. And while yes, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.... it's funny how so many of these opinions are based on things that are nonsensical... For example Kurt.. Quote:
How can you complain about the motor not being unique to the chassis and therefore the 1M should not be an M car, but oh yeah, please also make it in an automatic!?! Sure, it's got the fancy name and an acronym (DCT) but really we all know what it is. Holy crap there was a time when there wasn't a single M car made WITH an automatic, and people are so far removed from this they feel like there is some sort of problem that an automatic transmission is NOT offered. THAT is simply Amazing. Ok Kurt... tell us what other engine BMW should have used. And please don't say the V8 in the M3 because that would really be ridiculous. We already know that the S54 is too old, and that they car was brought to market in 12-18 months, so it's not like there is the ability to design a new engine, so it's going to have to come from current production. And then... for extra credit.. tell us *WHY* BMW would intentionally would make a car that would compete against another car in their own lineup???? " CRUSH IT", as you say. I thought that BMW is competing for market share against other companies.. not to reduce their own market share by pitting their own products against each other. Pete is 100% correct about the differential... Shorter gearing (numerically higher) is used to keep a low torque/high hp motor in the power band. I should know... I've had the least torquey M car in history for over 15 years, and it's got a 4:10 differential. The 1M has GOBS of torque through the majority of the power band. Much more torque than the E92 M3, and the car has 400 lbs less weight to drag around as well. Pete mentioned that this was explained in another thread.. but perhaps a little visual aid... http://www.bokchoys.com/differential/GearRatios.htm Note how the lower displacement motors have shorter gearing than their larger displacement counterparts of the same chassis. Oh... and finally... just a little hint .. the 1M... even though it's missing the 20 hp and the AUTOMATIC that you want.... it already IS a ROCKET... and it *IS* INCREDIBLE....... It REALLY is.... so I am happy to see that it's still on your list, and that you aren't one of the " I'm not buying because it wasn't made *this* (read: my) way " types.. Last edited by M3 Adjuster; 12-26-2010 at 02:10 AM.. |
||
Appreciate
0
|
12-26-2010, 04:20 AM | #116 | |
Second Lieutenant
5
Rep 205
Posts |
Quote:
Either way, there is nothing wrong with the 335is or the z4is.. they are nice just not my cup of tea |
|
Appreciate
0
|
12-26-2010, 04:28 AM | #117 |
Second Lieutenant
5
Rep 205
Posts |
|
Appreciate
0
|
12-26-2010, 04:42 AM | #118 | |
M Power
43
Rep 1,469
Posts |
Quote:
http://www.bmw-motorsport.com/ms_en Maximum individuality and sportiness: with its three business areas BMW M Automobile, BMW Individual and BMW Driver Training, BMW M GmbH is a comprehensive production and service company, which has been developing innovative, high-performance engines for over 30 years. High-tech, individuality and safety – the BMW M service range offers all aspects of perfection and exclusivity. In the 2010 season, the company will once again demonstrate its strengths as "Official Car" partner of the MotoGP World Championship The 1 Series M Coupe belongs here
__________________
Last edited by Jaguar66; 12-26-2010 at 04:53 AM.. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
12-26-2010, 04:52 AM | #119 | |
M Power
43
Rep 1,469
Posts |
Quote:
Just because someone doesn't like something about it, doesn't change the fact the the maker of the car is calling it a M car.
__________________
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
12-26-2010, 04:54 AM | #120 |
Banned
583
Rep 1,170
Posts
Drives: M2 Competition, E30 M3 DTM
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Country where the taxes are too high!!
|
Has been developing innovative, high-performance engines for over 30 years.
Yes but it s now tuning AG engines for the comming 30 years. What i mention earlier M has become more a tuning company. I saw M more as manufacturer but with the change to AG turbo engines it more a tuning company. So for me and lots of others the special feeling owning an M car is flowing away more and more. The sticker on the engine cover should say Tuned by Bmw M. It is certainly not powered by Bmw M. This though has nothing to do how good the 1M will be. How much fun this car can be. |
Appreciate
0
|
12-26-2010, 05:32 AM | #121 | |
Banned
7909
Rep 11,785
Posts |
Quote:
Oh please give it a rest. You are going to split hairs between" tuned by " and "powered by "? If "powering by BMW M means only motor design then changing a single component in the motor changes this right? But I'm sure you feel it has to be the entire motor right? Even though a far like the E30 M3 want a complete motor design right? It's a mongrel mix of bastardized motors. Sheesh. Yes the company is changing what it does to cars. BMW M has been doing that for 30 years. SMG, DCT, MDM, the M differential, design of suspension components, aero design, and yes of course, they build and design and also TUNE engines. They have been tuning all of these things and more over the last 30 years and I am sure they will do more in the future. The simple fact is there always has been more to BMW M than engine design. Personally I completely disagree that BMW is not still doing motor design. The S63 in the X5M and X6M are a clear testament to this. Even, if, in a turbo era, all there is left is tuning an AG motor, is that not still engine development? I saw an article recently that called BMW M a skunkworks. I think that's a very correct name. They literally modify all that they can on a BMW AG car. In the case of the 1M there was no time/money to develop a new engine, and they developed everything they could. BMW M develops items for BMW AG and if there isn't the timeline or the budget from BMW AG for a project that BMW M wants to do then what else can be done? |
|
Appreciate
0
|
12-26-2010, 07:26 AM | #122 | ||
Brigadier General
197
Rep 4,848
Posts |
Quote:
Yes, it has a unique engine - but remember everyone was up in arms and saying that the M3 should never have a V8? How disappointed many M3 owners was when it was no longer a I6? I was one, but than I again, I thoroughly enjoyed it when I had a chance to sample it at driver's training. The 1M has been substantially modified from the 135i, the wider track, different suspension setup (where the aluminium damper and rear-link setup is unique to the 1M and expected to be used in the next M3), LSD, different transmission, better brakes. Although it hasn't been confirmed, reading from various source suggested that the N54 for the 1M would be built by M and mate it at the plant with M tools like the other M cars. I guess - we have got some valid arguments discussing if it is a true M car or not, and I think advevo as per below has got some very valid points... Quote:
I know the 1M engine doesn't even get a S designation as at best it is M tuned, if not identical to the IS engines. Does it make it less a M car than any other M car in history if it gives the same emotion it did when you are in the driver sit? I am disappointed that not more work has been done on the engine, and I would adjust how much I am prepared to pay for this car. However, I still believe this is a very true M car because this is what M is all about (probably with the exception of the E60) - the integration of all parts to give you something more.
__________________
Macan S Diesel - Carrera White
Macan Turbo - White 1///M - Valencia Orange Last edited by sparoz; 12-26-2010 at 07:42 AM.. |
||
Appreciate
0
|
12-26-2010, 07:38 AM | #123 |
Captain
340
Rep 817
Posts
Drives: E30 M3 Darth Vader Trackcar
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: SEC
|
How many of the nay sayers her work for a Billion dollar company? Do you know what "time to market" and "project budget" mean? They had both. This new 1M is all they could do with these two restraints. Period.
T |
Appreciate
0
|
12-26-2010, 08:31 AM | #124 |
Brigadier General
1850
Rep 4,836
Posts |
It really is too early to tell...need to see it in person, read some reviews, test drive, etc.
Some of you have to take off the rose colored glasses though. The 1M is surely a great car but it is nowhere near as 'special' as M3s or M5s through the years. Strip away the borrowed M3 bits, LSD, brakes, etc and what do you have... a factory tuned 135 with 'questionable' styling. A 'budget' minded M car is not a bad thing, lets just keep it all in perspective. PS. Even though I do have my name on the list for a 1M...I am still not sold. |
Appreciate
0
|
12-26-2010, 08:39 AM | #125 | |
Second Lieutenant
17
Rep 249
Posts |
Quote:
Price point of the vehicle and target market says it all really. Time to market doesn't matter so much as project budget. If they had the same amount of time and a much larger price point and budget we would have a different car, and a lot of us who are excited couldn't afford the product. If we had a different target market say "Track Day Car ONLY" then we would have had something different as well. Cars are about the challenge of making a great car for X dollars and X market. That's also the fun in buying them. You have X models to choose from and its up to you to decide what is the best model for you. Sounds like a lot of people want M to mean "Pure Motorsport (Hardcore, Stripped)" and others want M to mean "Motorsport but with a luxury flourish (Automatic, Leather, 4 seats, etc)". But most of us just want M to be a great DD that was designed with a sports cars balance and enough power to get from point A to point B while laying down rubber (straight or sideways). And most of all alot of people want an M type car but can't afford it - This is the market BMW needs to tap. This means that they need to have more 1M type models to really give the Joy of driving back to the people who really want it. Im sure the M3 folks are really pissed about the M3 GTS not having a bespoke V10 and carbon fiber body to make it a "Real" race car.... I mean the GTS is just alot of off the shelf parts with a bit of tuning. Last edited by theblackangus; 12-26-2010 at 09:32 AM.. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
12-26-2010, 09:30 AM | #126 | |||
Captain
12
Rep 734
Posts |
Quote:
Quote:
Corrected: Quote:
Again with your focus on straight line, multiple gear change acceleration comparisons with THE WRONG TRANSMISSION and a preselected range that favors your perspective. How about instead we compare within a gear, or across gears with 1M + DCT + correct gears, vs 1M + manual + highway gears? Yea, it would be a butt-whipping issued by the DCT car.
__________________
... a glorious V8 that screamed and hollered as the revs rose and then howled in an orgy of what sounded like BDSM ecstasy as it neared the red line.
Well, you can forget all that. The new car is fitted with a turbocharged straight six. Turbocharging? In an M car? That’s like putting gravy on an ice cream. - Jeremy Clarkson, discussing the S65 and then S55 M3 engines. |
|||
Appreciate
0
|
12-26-2010, 09:40 AM | #127 | |
Second Lieutenant
17
Rep 249
Posts |
Quote:
Strip that stuff away from the M3 and what do you have? A 3 series. Strip that stuff away from a Ferrari and what do you have? A Fiat. What kind of thought process is that? It's the balance of the combination that matters. Everything is just a bunch of crap banged together. Its the way its banged together that matters. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
12-26-2010, 09:42 AM | #128 | |||||||
Captain
12
Rep 734
Posts |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
... a glorious V8 that screamed and hollered as the revs rose and then howled in an orgy of what sounded like BDSM ecstasy as it neared the red line.
Well, you can forget all that. The new car is fitted with a turbocharged straight six. Turbocharging? In an M car? That’s like putting gravy on an ice cream. - Jeremy Clarkson, discussing the S65 and then S55 M3 engines. |
|||||||
Appreciate
0
|
12-26-2010, 10:17 AM | #129 | ||
Captain
120
Rep 898
Posts
Drives: '69 GT3, GT4, 1M, 912
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: SF Bay Area, Shenzhen, Oman
|
Quote:
We are not talking torque or HP here. We are not talking DCT- please stay on topic. This is simple: by saying the 1M should use the M3 manual R&P you are saying BMW should have made the car shift into 4th gear on a 6 MT before 90 mph, shifting 3 times in roughly 8 seconds. Please explain why BMW should have done this? Again, you won't find a single similar car from any manufacture with that gearing. Please enlighten us- what is it that you know that every auto manufacture has somehow missed? What makes this better than what BMW did?
__________________
1M, GT4, 1969 Porsche 911 w/ 997 GT3 Cup Motor (435hp & 2,100 lbs)
|
||
Appreciate
0
|
12-26-2010, 10:20 AM | #130 | ||
Second Lieutenant
17
Rep 249
Posts |
Quote:
1. Racing - M-DCT ("Fastest") 2. Luxury - M-DCT ("Don't want to be bothered") 3. Sporty Driving - Manual ("Driving Involvement") They really boil down to two worlds. 1. Driving involvement (Manual) 2. Driving luxury (Fastest\Don't want to be bothered) As far as driving involvement M-DCT does not make the car fully manual. I certainly don't see it sprouting a clutch pedal or a gear shift knob! </Hammond On> But it would be cool if it did! Press a button and the shifter rises from the center column, a pedal drops down on the left, all with mechanical whiring sounds and claxon's warning you - "You are now in control!" </Hammond Off> I don't really care how fast I am at the track, because I'm not racing. I do care about the fun I have at the track (someday) and on the road (everyday). That's the driver involvement. Sports cars have been classically "driving involvement" cars ala Miata, Boxter, Elise, etc. These cars all have iconic status as everyday mans sports cars, and I think we can all agree the 1M is meant to appeal to the sports car lover in us. Really you are not getting the best of both worlds as the two worlds boil down to I want "Fastest/Luxury" or I want "driving involvement", and as you inferred the fastest option is not the most "involving" option now. Quote:
When there is money at stake then I will say "Fastest Car Please", otherwise I will say "Funnest Car Please!". Happy Motoring! |
||
Appreciate
0
|
12-26-2010, 10:27 AM | #131 |
Second Lieutenant
7
Rep 294
Posts |
I may be just a dumb fireman but something tells me that if the 1M had JUST an Is engine they wouldn't have had to test it as much as they did. It would have been more of a bolt on and go with minor tests.
Either way this dumb fireman will be in Munich next Oktoberfest to pick one up. If anyone else is interested in doing the Ring with more than one 1M, pick one up and let's go!
__________________
Z4M Coupe 6MT Monaco Blue #13/36 ...Keeper... Z4 3.0 6MT ...Keeper... 2OO2 5MT ...Keeper... 335i 6MT Montego Blue M-Sport (Retired),X535d Vermillion Red/Saddle (Retired) |
Appreciate
0
|
12-26-2010, 11:42 AM | #132 | |||
Captain
12
Rep 734
Posts |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Besides, according to the DCT-haters, there's pretty much nothing on Earth as fun as shifting, even if it's slower. I'm surprised more folks here aren't lobbying for a 10 speed manual with a 4.56 gear out back. LOL.
__________________
... a glorious V8 that screamed and hollered as the revs rose and then howled in an orgy of what sounded like BDSM ecstasy as it neared the red line.
Well, you can forget all that. The new car is fitted with a turbocharged straight six. Turbocharging? In an M car? That’s like putting gravy on an ice cream. - Jeremy Clarkson, discussing the S65 and then S55 M3 engines. |
|||
Appreciate
0
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
|
|