BMW M1 / BMW 1M test mule spied in production testing form!!!

[Remonster]

Originally Posted by sparoz

No new coupe till at least 2013.




Definitely - but it's not hard to change it to a square set up.

I found it funny how people focused on the missing M parts. BMW wouldnt' have bothered with the fenders if they are doing an 'is' model.

The S engine will have TT, and still rumoured to be Twin Scroll as well - which would make this very interesting on an I6. Of course the other way of having it may be a TwinTurbo, Triple Scroll?

Do you even know what you're talking about? two twin scroll turbos on a straight 6 makes no sense. I guess theoretically a single triple scroll could work but it wouldn't be what you would call efficient. I'd be willing to bet it will be a regular twin turbo setup as found on the N54 but applied to an engine derived from the N55 with its Valvetronic

[bradford]

Originally Posted by sparoz

Definitely - but it's not hard to change it to a square set up.

Why would you want to do that?

[T89]

yummy...


T

[Monterra]

Reduce understeer. Car and Driver states 340ish hp NA inline 6 for the M1- can anyone confirm or refute?
They're also still expecting a 135is too? Huh?

[HERR FSTIR]

In one of these threads Scott26 has mentioned output of 350-360 hp. He has also stated whatever turbocharged inline six ends up in the M1 will be the basis for the f30 M3.

[bimmerboy]

Originally Posted by bradford

Edmunds is not an enthusiast medium, it's a Consumer Reports type Joe-Honda-Accord-My-Car-Is-The-Same-As-My-Dishwasher website.

I beg to differ, Edmunds Insideline and long-term blog are definitely enthusiast related, hell they do suspension walk-arounds on every car they own. Not to mention dyno tests of new cars to verify their claimed output etc...

Check their long term 135i, they even loaded a flash tune on it... Edmunds is a very respectible source when it comes to new info on cars, and imo have very enthusiast friendly comparisons.

I find it funny you even said that b/c out of all the crappy ass magazines such as motor trend/car & driver, edmunds is actually pretty cool and fun to read

[BMW_F25_X3]

check out my new thread with my new render of the M1

[creepy coupe]

Looks just like an LCI version of the existing 135i to me.

Look at the over large mirrors, not unlike the LCI E92.

No vents in the front wings?

[Donbona]

Why would they do this??
I think Bmw M have lost the plot.

[BMW269]

One thing I do not understand: BMW M says the M1 is going to be the drivers cars and will be more track orientated. But how can it be so with "TURBO", as there will be turbo lag, dct lag and bad throttle response?

[treehacker]

I think they will change a few things still until the final version.

Anyway, I also think they will name it "M Coupe"

[creepy coupe]

Originally Posted by Levi

One thing I do not understand: BMW M says the M1 is going to be the drivers cars and will be more track orientated. But how can it be so with "TURBO", as there will be turbo lag, dct lag and bad throttle response?

There is no turbo lag with the 135i fitted with the N54 and DCT shifts are fasted then the manual

[sparoz]

Originally Posted by Remonster

Do you even know what you're talking about? two twin scroll turbos on a straight 6 makes no sense. I guess theoretically a single triple scroll could work but it wouldn't be what you would call efficient. I'd be willing to bet it will be a regular twin turbo setup as found on the N54 but applied to an engine derived from the N55 with its Valvetronic

Yes, I do know what I am talking about, I just wasn't clear. Hence I said it would be "interesting" to see how they can have a TwinTurbo TwinScroll set up in a I6, which have only 6 cylinder and not 8 for an even split. That's also the reason why I suggest may be it will have a triple scroll where three inlets supply to each turbo housing.

We are all hoping that it is going to be more than just a Twin Turbo N55, and Scott26' was very hush hush about the engine when South asked the question - which seems to suggest a trick engine, and really, it needs something special to make it a 'S' engine. He seemed to have ruled out a triple turbo, but I guess it still opens up to what it might be.

One alternative to the triple scroll theory, or a trick valving with a twinscroll twinturbo system is a Twinturbo, Sequential Twinscroll. Honeywell had been known to make a sequential twinscroll turbo, and hence attaching each to 3 cylinders may give higher boost at higher revs which many people are hoping for.

Of course they are all talks (limited engineering understanding too), and may be you are right - it is just going to be a plain twinturbo on valtronic, and everyone waiting for the next M3 would be very disappointed.

Originally Posted by bradford

Why would you want to do that?

The biggest complaint of the 1er is the understeer and a staggered setup will help to eliminate that.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by creepy coupe

There is no turbo lag with the 135i fitted with the N54 and DCT shifts are fasted then the manual

There's always a little lag--it is just much less noticeable than what you would see on an Evo or STI.....

I have been driving a high-revving, NA car since Sunday while my 135 is in for service, and MAN do I wish the same would be present in the M1....

I understand the efficiencies of the FI route--and we have seen you can get great performance that way...it is just different......

[jmunro]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

There's always a little lag--it is just much less noticeable than what you would see on an Evo or STI.....

I have been driving a high-revving, NA car since Sunday while my 135 is in for service, and MAN do I wish the same would be present in the M1....

I understand the efficiencies of the FI route--and we have seen you can get great performance that way...it is just different......

I wouldn't be worried about turbo lag... the twin scroll turbo has already brought the responsiveness up and peak torque onset down by 300 rpm... I'm guessing the numbers on this engine will be as impressive if not more impressive. The N/A v. FI arguement is starting to sound like the MT v. AT/DCT arguement. Some people just don't want to bother with improved, better technology. Like my grandmother who never learned how to use a computer... lol!


She liked to write letters because it was more raw and she felt as one with the message!

[Guibo]

Remember what Randy Pobst felt about the N54 in the 135i for the Motor Trend test:
"On the track, it was actually kind of unsatisfying because of the way the power fell off at high rpm. It's not a motor that likes to run right to the redline; it's a mid-range engine."

This may be of concern to those looking for the driving thrills that M cars usually deliver. The M1 may be more track-oriented in terms of handling and braking, but perhaps not in power delivery.

[Robert]

Remember what Randy Pobst felt about the N54 in the 135i for the Motor Trend test:
"On the track, it was actually kind of unsatisfying because of the way the power fell off at high rpm. It's not a motor that likes to run right to the redline; it's a mid-range engine."

This may be of concern to those looking for the driving thrills that M cars usually deliver. The M1 may be more track-oriented in terms of handling and braking, but perhaps not in power delivery.

My feeling as well.

Even with the reduced lag there's still the top end drop off at 5500rpm. They need to address that as well. I don't like knowing I have another 1500rpm to go but have to early shift to the next gear, essentially reducing redline to 6000krpm. It's great on the streets, instantaneous power at your disposal and more of a head rush but harder to control because of non-linear throttle.

[billspreston]

Originally Posted by Guibo

Remember what Randy Pobst felt about the N54 in the 135i for the Motor Trend test:
"On the track, it was actually kind of unsatisfying because of the way the power fell off at high rpm. It's not a motor that likes to run right to the redline; it's a mid-range engine."

This may be of concern to those looking for the driving thrills that M cars usually deliver. The M1 may be more track-oriented in terms of handling and braking, but perhaps not in power delivery.

The M1 will have a twin turbo "S"N55 M tuned motor. Nobody has any idea what this engine will feel like. Have a little faith in M that they will deliver a more "track-friendly" motor in these new cars. I assure you they aren't just bolting some snails on there and calling it a day. The only TT M we've seen so far are the X5 & X6 and those engines have a much different purpose. The people building these cars aren't stupid and BMW is one of the best at building performance motors, especially the boys at M. I don't expect this to change with the onset of turbo motors in their lineup.

Do people complain about the effect turbos have on a Nissan GT-R at the track? What about Evos and Sti? What about Porsche or the older turbo Ferraris? Please guys, N/A is not the end all be all!

[bradford]

Originally Posted by Levi

One thing I do not understand: BMW M says the M1 is going to be the drivers cars and will be more track orientated. But how can it be so with "TURBO", as there will be turbo lag, dct lag and bad throttle response?

Uhhhhhhhh, no.

[JimmyT]

Originally Posted by jmunro

She liked to write letters because it was more raw and she felt as one with the message!

I seriously LOLd on that one....

[bradford]

Originally Posted by sparoz

The biggest complaint of the 1er is the understeer and a staggered setup will help to eliminate that.

OK. But you posted:

Originally Posted by sparoz

Definitely - but it's not hard to change it to a square set up.

That's why I said "Why would you do that?"

[bradford]

Originally Posted by Guibo

Remember what Randy Pobst felt about the N54 in the 135i for the Motor Trend test:
"On the track, it was actually kind of unsatisfying because of the way the power fell off at high rpm. It's not a motor that likes to run right to the redline; it's a mid-range engine."

If only there was a way to engage the next gear, thus returning the motor to the meat of the powerband...like...say...upshifting.