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04-22-2019, 11:50 AM | #133 |
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hey, what's new with your spherical bushings on trailing arm and camber arm?
I plan to install ball link toe and M3 guid rod on my 135I. What do you think about this toe arm : https://www.ebay.com/itm/06-12-E90-E...cAAOSw3bBceZOl They seem to be ball linked, cheap but maybe anybody try this ... there is also the cheap of the cheap version : https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/rear-...811057537.html |
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07-10-2019, 08:17 PM | #134 |
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been going threw all this suspension setups looking for the best solution for my 2011 135i DCT rear end moves a lot side to side over bumps any thoughts ..I'm in canada roads arn't the best ( frost )
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07-10-2019, 09:22 PM | #135 |
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Upgrade the Rear Subframe Bushings (RSFB). Whiteline makes a decent 2-piece poly set.
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07-11-2019, 09:04 PM | #136 |
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This^^ plus a rear differential lockdown bracket really helps too.
Last edited by Gangplank; 07-16-2019 at 09:07 PM.. |
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07-15-2019, 08:07 PM | #137 |
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differential lockdown bracket this I have not seen I'll check it out do springs and shocks help (seen some guys raving about M sport yellow springs and koni shocks) I'm in canada so I don't what my teeth to fall out
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07-16-2019, 05:37 PM | #138 | |
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Then do the RSFB, all the M arms and an alignment (again). If you're budget limited and you've ditched the stock Runflats, just do the RSFB and leave it until you have funds to do more (or if you even want to do more). Skip the power mods and focus on suspension instead. Last edited by deesea; 07-16-2019 at 05:43 PM.. |
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07-19-2019, 12:51 PM | #139 |
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I'm running MHD stage 2+ and all the supporting mods for it, adding meth (have everything just need the time) 235/40/18 MPSS 265/35/18 MPSS REAR AND RSFB inserts stock bushing with poly fillers .....yellow vs gold koni for the street ? swift spec r springs vs stock ....find the car moves around too much after hitting bumps .....bump wig-ill bump wig-ill don't what to turn it into a hay wagon.......power is nothing without control!
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07-19-2019, 02:11 PM | #140 | |
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08-10-2019, 07:02 AM | #141 |
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Hey guys.
We have manufactured rear toe arms for the e82 and e9x non-M. The design principle is a curved arm, but with dimensions better suited to the non-M suspension. These are made of billet 6061-T6 aluminum and have been precision CNC machined to accept either balljoints or bushings (which can be either stock bushings or much stiffer Group N bushings, or even polyurethane bushings like those from Powerflex and other suppliers), or any combination of balljoints and bushings depending on individual preferences. They can be anodized in any colour. They can also be made either in the standard length (412 mm) or +3 mm for extra toe. Just trying to gauge interest at this point so please reply if you might be interested in this product. a Stay tuned! Last edited by Angel67; 08-10-2019 at 07:11 AM.. Reason: Adding pic |
08-10-2019, 04:27 PM | #143 |
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I have an idea but the prices will also depend on what options are selected. Regular bushings and balljoints would be similar pricing but Group N bushings are more expensive.
But note that balljoints would provide no contribution to wheel rate while regular bushings would provide some contribution (say equivalent to 15 lb/in per bushing) while Group N would contribute by my calculations an equivalent to 56 lb/in per bushing on the toe arm. That's the really nice thing about these arms - you can select bushings/balljoints/combination and thereby tweak your effective spring rate in increments. On my car (e92 335xi) we just installed a set with a balljoint on one side of the arms and a Group N bushing on the other side. All 5 of my arms are bushing on one side and balljoint on the other side, like the M3 arms have. |
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08-10-2019, 05:08 PM | #144 |
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So, for example, on effective spring rates:
- 2 balljoints: 0 - 1 balljoint and 1 regular bushing: 15 - 2 regular bushings: 30 - 1 balljoint and 1 Group N: 56 - 1 regular bushing and 1 Group N: 71 - 2 Group N: 112 Assuming the contribution of a full set of stock bushings is an equivalent of 109 lb/in, then that can be fully compensated with a set of MRP toe arms with 2 Group N bushings, and the other 4 arms can be only balljoints... a Stay tuned! |
02-20-2020, 02:10 AM | #145 |
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This information has been invaluable. I currently have the Eibach coilover pro kit on order and should be getting them installed along with the Dinan upper shock mounts March 13th. So in the mean time I've been wondering what else would be a good upgrade to do during the coilover install. After reading this, much appreciated by the way, it seems like better options would be swaybars, diff bushings, and maybe subframe bushings? However, as nice as it would be to do all the work at once I'm very tempted to do it piece by piece in order to better identify each components benefit if it exists. Since going from stock to nice coilovers should feel like a huge improvement in all areas. So that's my plan. Thanks again fe1rx for the mildly obsessive and detailed information.
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04-16-2020, 03:54 AM | #146 |
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Rear Suspension Guide Rod compression spring rate
GUIDE ROD
Attachment 1143090 The Guide Rod and Trailing Arm react thrust and braking loads. A simple analysis of the in-service load levels is impractical due to the sophisticated geometry of the multi-link suspension. The OE Guide Rod is a pair of pressed steel halves welded together with inboard and outboard rubber bushings. LH and RH parts are identical as the welded assembly is straight. The two halves of the weldment form two parallel columns that fail by buckling away from each other at a load in excess of 14,000 lbs, based on testing. The unit would be stronger if it were fully welded, but the partially welded design provides for controlled failure. Attachment 1143091 The M3 Guide Rod is forged aluminum with inboard ball joint and outboard rubber bushing. The forged bodies of the LH and RH arms are identical but installation of the bushings makes them handed. The bodies are curved (downward), not for installation clearance issues, but to ensure that the compressive failure of this member will be by progressive bending. The ball joint used at the inboard location effectively doubles the stiffness and halves the deflection under axial loading versus the OE Guide Rod, which will alter (and presumably decrease) compliance steer effects. Attachment 1143092 Hello, Thank you for all this info. Did you toke note of the compression spring rate of the guide rod before it colapsed? By the way, I believe the reason for the M3 aluminium arms being curved and flexible is to be compatible the over-restrained geometry of the 5 link suspension. This means that if you make all suspension arms and the subframe solid enough, the suspension would be locked. In real world terms, if you make all arms solid, the weakest itens in the suspension arrangement would be forced to flex or bend, creating a failure condition after a number of cycles. There is a reason for most race cars suspension hub being controled by a 3 ball joint arrangement. Because 3 points define a plane with no need for arm flexibility. So why BMW spend money designing a 5 link suspension? To acomodate toe-in increase only during cornering and braking, and not during bump/rebound suspension movement, to add stability to the car without adding tyre wear and fuel consumption typical of lots of toe-in setup. Hope this helps Joao |
04-16-2020, 07:33 AM | #147 |
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A suspension upright has six degrees of freedom: vertical translation, lateral translation, longitudinal translation, steering angle change, camber angle change, and caster angle change. The rear suspension must be constrained to a single unique path.
Six fixed length links would prevent all motion. Making only one adjustable (the spring) achieves one unique suspension motion. Making the toe arm adjustable (I.e. making it a tie rod connected to a steering rack) adds the ability to steer the wheel. A 5-link is not over constrained and works fine with ball joints everywhere - that is what I am currently running. I did not measure the stiffness of the steel arm itself because it was clear that at operating loads all meaningful deflection came from the bushings. |
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04-16-2020, 04:18 PM | #148 |
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Hi there,
Thanks for your reply. What you said made me look closer to the subject and I have to agree with you and your practical experience: this 5 link suspension will not lock if you use ruber joints or ball joints in both extremes of the arms. However I don't totally agree with your explanation for this. First of all, we are talking about the suspension upright control. It can not rotate. The wheel rotates because it sits on a roller bearing. The suspension works the same way whenever the wheel rotates or it is stoped. For the suspension upright, there are 6 degrees of freedom: 3 linear on 3 axles (vertical, lateral and longitudinal) and 3 rotational over the same 3 axles. 2 longitudinal arms stop longitudinal movement and rotation over the lateral axle. 3 lateral arms stop lateral movement and rotation over the longitudinal and vertical axles. Vertical movement is allowed and controlled by the spring and damper. Regarding the Guide Rod, the way it is designed it really looks like it would act as a spring together with the rubber joints. I'm going to strengthen those in my car and see if I lose some mid corner understeer. Regards Joao |
04-16-2020, 09:03 PM | #149 | |
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I have to agree I got that wheel rotation thing wrong. I have edited my post to better (I hope) make my point. Thanks for keeping me on my toes. |
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04-19-2020, 12:54 AM | #150 | |
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04-28-2020, 08:24 PM | #151 |
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M3 Control arm upgrade.
I would imagine that if you're going to do the fronts, you might as well do the rears as well.I just figure it'll all work better together as it is designed to do so. I recently upgraded my suspension and went with the TRW M3 style upgrade control arms through FCP and with the Bilstein B8's. I was only riding on the stock dampers with some Swift lowering springs.
The car feels sooo much better now. Much more planted on the turns. |
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02-11-2022, 12:31 PM | #152 |
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Soo what I got from this thread is upgraded toe arms make a difference but the wishbones not so much?
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02-11-2022, 03:06 PM | #153 |
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I love the m3 front and rear arm upgrade. But to be fair I did the arms with rsfb, trans mounts, diff bushings and motor mounts all at the same time. Feels like a different car even with keeping oem suspension
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