Anything You Don't Like About 1 Coupe?

[imported_MPower]

Originally Posted by BMWeber

there are two good reasons for a 128 rather than a 130 first price they are going for a lower price car so they go for the cheaper engine. second is to make sure there is a large difference from the basic model to the fast model. and if you want a 130i that much you can make one it's just very expensive.

As I just mentioned, the 128 and 130 share the same engine. It's the same aluminum/magnesium block, Valvetronic, etc. They are technically identical apart from ECU and exhaust/catalyst modifications that artificially lower the output. The price between the two engines would, therefore, be close to nonexistent.

[BMWeber]

Originally Posted by MPower

As I just mentioned, the 128 and 130 share the same engine. It's the same aluminum/magnesium block, Valvetronic, etc. They are technically identical apart from ECU and exhaust/catalyst modifications that artificially lower the output. The price between the two engines would, therefore, be close to nonexistent.

I'm pretty sure there is a fancy multiple stage intake on the 130 that's not on the 128. I think that is the major power difference

[Propagator]

Originally Posted by Garrett

That is your problem, your comparing stats from the BMW to "other" cars.

Am I not supposed to compare specs of BMW to non-BMW cars? That's a news to me. :iono:

Go drive a 328i tonight and come back and tell me it doesn't perform! BMW's tranny have less parasitic loss and are smother and rev higher than most.

It not all about HP or TQ, but about the powerband and the performance that can be exacted from the engine when needed. How heavy are those "other" cars your compairing the 128i to?

It's about balance and HP to weight. But until you see how BMW's lay down the power you cannot conceive of what I am talking about. So do yourself a favor and got test drive a 328i, then tell me you like the Mustang GT better?

Please quote me where I made a mention of the overall performance of the 1 series compared to the other vehicles. You are completely missing my point.

But remember, your not getting a world class engine with the Japanese engines. BMW is giving you a world class engine for under $40k.

As I said in my previous post, some people just want a world class NA engine, which BMW offers everywhere but in the NA market, not a world class FI engine. On a side note, the VQ in the Altima is, while not exactly my favorite, without a doubt a world class engine, more so than a detuned 230HP N53.

As MPower has already pointed out, the reason that we get the 128i (which only exist in NA market) instead of the 130i has nothing to do with the actual cost. Nor is it better fuel economy, which we don't get with the detuned engine.

Both the 325i and 328i have engines that were intentionally detuned from that of the 330i. The exact specs of these two engines most likely came from reasons far removed from engineering. Case in point,

2006 325i____215HP(84%)____$30900(85%)
2007 328i____230HP(90%)____$32400(90%)
2006 330i____255HP(100%)___$36300(100%)

As you can see, the pricing and HP have almost identical ratios among the three models. This is what I mean by specs determined in a marketing meeting. If you are fine with this, good for you. I am not. :iono:

[npd2983]

These dislikes are for the 128i:

1. I too wish the window controls were by the shifter/gearstick. I was once attacked by a road rager through an open driver's side window and could have really used a button to roll up the window that was not on the door. Although it was a freak incident, and I don't think it would happen to anyone hardly ever, it is still worth considering.
2. Would be nice to have direct injection/pizeo business to improve fuel economy
3. Charging for a "mini-stereo-in" jack is insane. A $25 boombox from 15 years ago had this technology. Car manufacturers are being greedy on this item, but they are getting away with it by bundling it with additional proprietary technology.
4. No brake regeneration/glass matt battery (Only complaining about this because it is on 1 series in Europe)
5. No auto stop function (again this is available on the 1 series in Europe). Why on earth would I pay to burn gasoline while my car is going nowhere? Including this feature seems like a no-brainer for the environment and customer's wallet. One day our kids will look back and be amazed that we had cars engines running while going nowhere.
6. An optional hitch for attaching a bike rack would be nice. This would definitely need to be an option as I know a lot of people would faint to see a hitch on a small sporty car.

In regards to #2, 4 & 5, my hope is that BMW is purposely excluding these efficiency dynamics from the 128i to leave market space stateside for a 1 series diesel with seriously high MPG. Apparently both a 535d and a 120d hatch(?!?!) have been spotted driving the roads in Michigan where they are also registered. Maybe this is a sign of things to come, depending on how 2008/2009 diesels are received in the US and how high the price of gasoline climbs. What is not helping is CA constantly raising its emission standards for diesels - this practice is reminiscent of Charlie Brown and the football.

There are a lot of things I love about the 128i, but this section is for dislikes, so not everything is bad. :smile:

Regards as always,
Neil DeWitte

[imported_MPower]

Originally Posted by BMWeber

I'm pretty sure there is a fancy multiple stage intake on the 130 that's not on the 128. I think that is the major power difference

There is a difference in intake. Nevertheless, the cost differences are extremely minimal and it doesnt change the fact that the 128i is a detuned 130i for no apparent reason.

[Garrett]

Originally Posted by spinzero

Am I not supposed to compare specs of BMW to non-BMW cars? That's a news to me. :iono:



Please quote me where I made a mention of the overall performance of the 1 series compared to the other vehicles. You are completely missing my point.



As I said in my previous post, some people just want a world class NA engine, which BMW offers everywhere but in the NA market, not a world class FI engine. On a side note, the VQ in the Altima is, while not exactly my favorite, without a doubt a world class engine, more so than a detuned 230HP N53.

As MPower has already pointed out, the reason that we get the 128i (which only exist in NA market) instead of the 130i has nothing to do with the actual cost. Nor is it better fuel economy, which we don't get with the detuned engine.

Both the 325i and 328i have engines that were intentionally detuned from that of the 330i. The exact specs of these two engines most likely came from reasons far removed from engineering. Case in point,

2006 325i____215HP(84%)____$30900(85%)
2007 328i____230HP(90%)____$32400(90%)
2006 330i____255HP(100%)___$36300(100%)

As you can see, the pricing and HP have almost identical ratios among the three models. This is what I mean by specs determined in a marketing meeting. If you are fine with this, good for you. I am not. :iono:

Again,

Your missing the point. The 128i is a world class engine and is quite remarkable. Those who want a "sportier" 1 series have the 135i. Why would BMW offer a middle model?

Secondly, the performance of the sub $30k 128i is 0~62mph in about 5.6 I believe. What reasoning is there for a 3rd model in the 1 series to fit in that almost non-existant sliver of performance gap between the 2 current models? What would be the cost? Why hamper production and cloud the product line? Remember, for roughly $4-5k you can opt for the marvelous 135i.

My god, we are talking only a few thousand dollars. Absolutly no matrix for a 130i, when you have a 135i. The 128i's engine is not neccesarilly detuned, but missing several componants that the

Remember, the 2004 330ci ($48,900) only had 225hp and was an incredible car. I hope you understand that those stats are no actual that BMW always understats their cars HP and performance figures.

The 328i is no slouch, and if BMW is trying to get this car to the US market for under $30k, than there is hardly any argument from anyone who has driven a n53 powered car!

Have you..? I got one as a loaner and laughed my ass off. It was faster than my 2004 330ci, which I paid a tad under $50k.

Until you actually go test drive a 328i, you assuming the 128i will be some type of slouch. But there are reviews of them in mags, just use those performance figures against whatever Japanese variant your trying to compair the so called "meager 128i" too.r basing your argument on what you think are the differences between the two engines.

Somehow your upset with BMW's marketing and not with the actual cars. Either your buying a 128i or for a few thousand more your getting a 135i. Not a hard choice. The price difference is too close to warrant a middle model.







-Garrett

[imported_MPower]

Originally Posted by Garrett

The 128i's engine is not neccesarilly detuned, but missing several componants that the

Again, you are missing the point. The 128/328/528's engine is an artificially detuned version of the full-fat N52. No one is questioning the 128i's performance, and for many it would be fantastic. But for virtually no change in price, BMW could have provided everything an enthusiast could want without having to go to the aftermarket to fix everything that BMW intentionally modified to minimize the performance for marketing reasons.

Bottom line: for the same price wouldnt you want the increased power of the N52? I cant see any reason why someone would want less power, especially considering that the nutured N52 is no more fuel efficient than the real N52.

Also, the point is to replace the 128i with the 130i, not to make both. :wink:

[WolfsburgerMitFries]

Mpower, you just hit the nail on the head.

[Propagator]

Originally Posted by Garrett

Again,

Your missing the point. The 128i is a world class engine and is quite remarkable. Those who want a "sportier" 1 series have the 135i. Why would BMW offer a middle model?

Secondly, the performance of the sub $30k 128i is 0~62mph in about 5.6 I believe. What reasoning is there for a 3rd model in the 1 series to fit in that almost non-existant sliver of performance gap between the 2 current models? What would be the cost? Why hamper production and cloud the product line? Remember, for roughly $4-5k you can opt for the marvelous 135i.

My god, we are talking only a few thousand dollars. Absolutly no matrix for a 130i, when you have a 135i. The 128i's engine is not neccesarilly detuned, but missing several componants that the

Remember, the 2004 330ci ($48,900) only had 225hp and was an incredible car. I hope you understand that those stats are no actual that BMW always understats their cars HP and performance figures.

The 328i is no slouch, and if BMW is trying to get this car to the US market for under $30k, than there is hardly any argument from anyone who has driven a n53 powered car!

Have you..? I got one as a loaner and laughed my ass off. It was faster than my 2004 330ci, which I paid a tad under $50k.

Until you actually go test drive a 328i, you assuming the 128i will be some type of slouch. But there are reviews of them in mags, just use those performance figures against whatever Japanese variant your trying to compair the so called "meager 128i" too.r basing your argument on what you think are the differences between the two engines.

Somehow your upset with BMW's marketing and not with the actual cars. Either your buying a 128i or for a few thousand more your getting a 135i. Not a hard choice. The price difference is too close to warrant a middle model.







-Garrett

You are clearly not reading what I write, and just repeating what you want to say over and over again. :iono:

1. MPower and I both made it clear mulpitple times that we want a 130i instead of a 128i. Two model line up, 130i, 135i. You keep making long posts based on your misunderstanding of what we said, which we have addressed many posts ago. Please read the posts that you are replying to.

2. I have said in my previous post that "go buy a 135i" is not a viable argument for those of us that want a fully tuned N52 that everyone else in the world gets. You know, the one that has proper BMW-like HP/liter. Please refer to my previous post.

3. The engine in the 128i IS a duteuned version of the one in the 130i, again a point that has been brought up many times just within this thread. Please do some research before you make statements.

4. NO ONE said the 128i will be a "slouch". In fact no one said ANYTHING about the overall performance of that car. You are arguing against something no one ever said. Again, please read the post you are replying to.

fanboism is strong in this one.

[Garrett]

Originally Posted by MPower

Again, you are missing the point. The 128/328/528's engine is an artificially detuned version of the full-fat N52. No one is questioning the 128i's performance, and for many it would be fantastic. But for virtually no change in price, BMW could have provided everything an enthusiast could want without having to go to the aftermarket to fix everything that BMW intentionally modified to minimize the performance for marketing reasons.

Bottom line: for the same price wouldnt you want the increased power of the N52? I cant see any reason why someone would want less power, especially considering that the nutured N52 is no more fuel efficient than the real N52.

Also, the point is to replace the 128i with the 130i, not to make both. :wink:

Oh, ok... I see your point now!

You don't want to spend the extra $4 or $5 grand for the 135i. Furthermore, the BMWefficiencydynamics has no significant value to you and your stricly looking for cheap horsepower..!

Originally Posted by MPower

I cant see any reason why someone would want less power

I agree... thats why there is a higher horsepower offering called the 135i ..!

Why complain? Horsepower is there, if you want it.




-Garrett

[Garrett]

Originally Posted by spinzero

You are clearly not reading what I write, and just repeating what you want to say over and over again. :iono:

1. MPower and I both made it clear mulpitple times that we want a 130i instead of a 128i. Two model line up, 130i, 135i. You keep making long posts based on your misunderstanding of what we said, which we have addressed many posts ago. Please read the posts that you are replying to.

2. I have said in my previous post that "go buy a 135i" is not a viable argument for those of us that want a fully tuned N52 that everyone else in the world gets. You know, the one that has proper BMW-like HP/liter. Please refer to my previous post.

3. The engine in the 128i IS a duteuned version of the one in the 130i, again a point that has been brought up many times just within this thread. Please do some research before you make statements.

4. NO ONE said the 128i will be a "slouch". In fact no one said ANYTHING about the overall performance of that car. You are arguing against something no one ever said. Again, please read the post you are replying to.

fanboism is strong in this one.

No, your misssing my point..!

Why would BMW sell 2 cars in the same model line with similiar performance figures and leave off the table, all the benifits of a highly efficient and green engine which will make alot of people happy, not to mention increase BMW's cafe standard, just becuase... some can't (or won't) afford the upgraded performance version..?

:iono:






-Garrett

[WolfsburgerMitFries]

Some people just don't want a turbocharged engine, they want a top tier normally aspirated engine, a la 130i. Its not about cost, its about avoiding all the potential reliability issues with turbos. Its not about being cheap...so get that out of your head.

[ppDoc]

Originally Posted by WolfsburgerMitFries

Some people just don't want a turbocharged engine, they want a top tier normally aspirated engine, a la 130i. Its not about cost, its about avoiding all the potential reliability issues with turbos. Its not about being cheap...so get that out of your head.

the turbos in the n54 are tiny so reliability issues are minimal at best. besides, using turbos are efficient. pump more available oxygen to the engine to produce more power from a smaller engine.

until today i have not heard of any problems caused by stock turbos from previous STI and evo models

[Propagator]

Originally Posted by Garrett

No, your misssing my point..!

Why would BMW sell 2 cars in the same model line with similiar performance figures and leave off the table, all the benifits of a highly efficient and green engine which will make alot of people happy, not to mention increase BMW's cafe standard, just becuase... some can't (or won't) afford the upgraded performance version..?

:iono:






-Garrett

How in the hell is 300/300 similar to 265/220? :iono:

Also, did you miss that the engine in 328i does not get better mileage than the one in 330i?

Strange indeed then that the 330i is sold alongside the 335i in Germany, England, France, Italy, etc etc, in fact, everywhere except in the US and Canada. The 328i, on the other hand, is nowhere to be found except in the US and Canada.

Why BMW insists on doing something, according to you, so pointless and illogical all over the world, I don't know. We sure are lucky to be the only ones to get the logical engine lineup.

[BMWeber]

In Europe they have the 135i coupe they don't offer a 130i coupe they don't even offer any other gas engines. In the hatches they offer the 125i and the 130i for 6 cyl gas. so they made a compromise between the two for the US. as usual we only get 2 engine choices and we get the lower performance 6 and the higher performance 6. It makes a decent amount of sense to me.
The way I look at it the 128 is a tuned 125i not a detuned 130i. :iono:

[emm3tt]

Originally Posted by spinzero

How in the hell is 300/300 similar to 265/220? :iono:

Also, did you miss that the engine in 328i does not get better mileage than the one in 330i?

Strange indeed then that the 330i is sold alongside the 335i in Germany, England, France, Italy, etc etc, in fact, everywhere except in the US and Canada. The 328i, on the other hand, is nowhere to be found except in the US and Canada.

Why BMW insists on doing something, according to you, so pointless and illogical all over the world, I don't know. We sure are lucky to be the only ones to get the logical engine lineup.

This guy's a troll, let it go. :iono:

[Propagator]

Originally Posted by emm3tt

This guy's a troll, let it go. :iono:

[ichiban]

Originally Posted by BMWeber

In Europe they have the 135i coupe they don't offer a 130i coupe they don't even offer any other gas engines. In the hatches they offer the 125i and the 130i for 6 cyl gas. so they made a compromise between the two for the US. as usual we only get 2 engine choices and we get the lower performance 6 and the higher performance 6. It makes a decent amount of sense to me.
The way I look at it the 128 is a tuned 125i not a detuned 130i. :iono:

pwned

[2fast]

Its not here yet.

[Garrett]

Originally Posted by WolfsburgerMitFries

Some people just don't want a turbocharged engine, they want a top tier normally aspirated engine, a la 130i. Its not about cost, its about avoiding all the potential reliability issues with turbos. Its not about being cheap...so get that out of your head.

:iono:

Reliability..? Hunh?








I can understand your reluctancy in grasping or wraping your head around a turbocharged engine. But in all honestly, what data do you have that leads you to beleive that turbocharged engines from BMW are less reliable than normally aspirated...?


Remember, BMW has extensive research and development in this department. Their engines are known to outlast their drivers, I see no reason why the n54 won't be reliable, do you...?









-Garrett

[imported_MPower]

Originally Posted by Garrett

I can understand your reluctancy in grasping or wraping your head around a turbocharged engine. But in all honestly, what data do you have that leads you to beleive that turbocharginged engines from BMW are less reliable than normally aspirated...?


Remember, BMW has extensive research and development in this department. Their engines are known to outlast their drivers, I see no reason why the n54 won't be reliable, do you...?

You are making big assumptions as you clearly have not read anything about the 335i's overheating problems, fuel pump problems, etc. It's a fine engine, no question, but there is no denying that an N52 would not have these problems.

And using the 2002 Turbo has a model for turbocharged reliability...

[Propagator]

Originally Posted by MPower

And using the 2002 Turbo has a model for turbocharged reliability...

Seriously!

Like I said, fanboism is STRONG on this one.