M1 vs competition

[BrokenVert]

That Porsche is beautiful. I wish that I could afford it.

[JasonCSU]

The new Boxster Spyder is a nice ride, but the compromise is in practicality. I would guess that most people buying the Spyder would not have it as their only/primary vehicle whereas more people buying the M1 may.

[BrokenVert]

Originally Posted by JasonCSU

The new Boxster Spyder is a nice ride, but the compromise is in practicality. I would guess that most people buying the Spyder would not have it as their only/primary vehicle whereas more people buying the M1 may.

Thats completly true. Its funny that is the same reason why im in a 135i vert and not a Z4M vert. I need the rear seats every now and again.

Guess that argument holds true for the M1 aswell.

[AlBel1214]

I'd take that "poor mans" porsche any day of the week...

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by AlBel1214

I'd take that "poor mans" porsche any day of the week...

Problem is, the damn things are up around $65-70k by the time you get them optioned up, and I don't think the performance justifies that kind of price. I test drove A Cayman before I ordered the 135i, and it just didn't impress me when I compared it to other stuff in the same price range.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

Problem is, the damn things are up around $65-70k by the time you get them optioned up, and I don't think the performance justifies that kind of price. I test drove A Cayman before I ordered the 135i, and it just didn't impress me when I compared it to other stuff in the same price range.

That's the trouble with the Cayman/Boxster. They go about doing their job in such a good way that they don't feel like they're exerting themselves that hard. Yet if you go to a track and try to keep pace with one, even in a significantly faster car, you realize how that balance really comes into play.

I don't find them to be that fun as street cars, but they're a very quick and competent package that go about doing all things well, rather than putting emphasis on one or two things. I personally would have never been able to pick the 135i over a Cayman, much less a Cayman S, but I wanted a cheaper and more practical car. Now for replacing my M Coupe, a Cayman would be just about perfect.

[bmwzone]

Face it seriously - for 40k? 50k? 60k? Nobody is going to care about the "M1" outside of a few enthusiasts. Plus the fact that the Mustang 2011 5.0 is going to blow it away in sound, price, and performance. Heck, they've already presold 11k 2011 units. That's more than the entire 1-Series for a year. And the 2011 isn't even out yet.

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/02/26/2...-a-good-start/

Seriously, BMW should stick with the 128 as entry level and go to 3 series from there.

The 135i should be a collectors car.

Ford will eat 1-Series for lunch all varieties even the "M" with the 2011 Stang.

[BrokenVert]

Originally Posted by bmwzone

Face it seriously - for 40k? 50k? 60k? Nobody is going to care about the "M1" outside of a few enthusiasts. Plus the fact that the Mustang 2011 5.0 is going to blow it away in sound, price, and performance. Heck, they've already presold 11k 2011 units. That's more than the entire 1-Series for a year. And the 2011 isn't even out yet.

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/02/26/2...-a-good-start/

Seriously, BMW should stick with the 128 as entry level and go to 3 series from there.

The 135i should be a collectors car.

Ford will eat 1-Series for lunch all varieties even the "M" with the 2011 Stang.

There is one reason why this is the case. Ford has the ability and the WILL, I highlight will for a reason, to make a performance car. Because the only thing that will keep the M1 from being as awesome as it can be is that BMW does not have the will to make it better than the M3.

Its a classic example of Camaro syndrome, Chevy learned far too late in the game that they had created a car that was better than the Vette, and they suffered for it, just as BMW will with the M1.

[Robert]

I am still waiting for Ford to bring over the RS Focus. Buy that in a heartbeat as a beater.

[PrimoM3]

Originally Posted by bmwzone

Face it seriously - for 40k? 50k? 60k? Nobody is going to care about the "M1" outside of a few enthusiasts. Plus the fact that the Mustang 2011 5.0 is going to blow it away in sound, price, and performance. Heck, they've already presold 11k 2011 units. That's more than the entire 1-Series for a year. And the 2011 isn't even out yet.

Ford will eat 1-Series for lunch all varieties even the "M" with the 2011 Stang.

Just because they sell a lot of them doesn't mean they're cool. Guess how many N' Sync albums sold in a year. The Mustang is still ugly IMO and looks cheap. I could give two left testicles if it's "faster" in a straight line. Call me a brand whore, elitest, or pig headed, but I wouldn't even rent one of those. Are those headlights foglights? Yuck!

Ditto on the Focus RS sentiment though... last I heard Ford was looking to combine their European and American small car groups which would mean that the RS may come to the US afterall. Likely with shitty seats from a Taurus though or something - we always get screwed on the seats.

[BrokenVert]

Originally Posted by Primo135

Ditto on the Focus RS sentiment though... last I heard Ford was looking to combine their European and American small car groups which would mean that the RS may come to the US afterall. Likely with shitty seats from a Taurus though or something - we always get screwed on the seats.

What you are thinking of has been called "One Ford". Ford is bringing over many of their small European cars including the Euro Focus, Fiesta, and Kuga for the 2011 or 2012 MY if im not mistaken

[BForbes]

Originally Posted by bmwzone

Face it seriously - for 40k? 50k? 60k? Nobody is going to care about the "M1" outside of a few enthusiasts. Plus the fact that the Mustang 2011 5.0 is going to blow it away in sound, price, and performance. Heck, they've already presold 11k 2011 units. That's more than the entire 1-Series for a year. And the 2011 isn't even out yet.

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/02/26/2...-a-good-start/

Seriously, BMW should stick with the 128 as entry level and go to 3 series from there.

The 135i should be a collectors car.

Ford will eat 1-Series for lunch all varieties even the "M" with the 2011 Stang.

Sounds better? That is opinion. Price? That is a given. Performance? That is not known. It's an opinion at this point. I dont think BMW has any qualms about making it perform like an M3. Look at the X6M and X5M. They are different vehicles that will match or even beat an M3 in the straights. It's not drastically far off in the curves either. The game changes when it comes to feel. A turbo sports car will provide a different feel than a highly strung NA V8 sports car. That is how they will justify it. You will have the choice to pick your poison.

BMW should not "stick" with a 128i as an entry car no more than it should a 135i. It is all about what you can afford and what you want. A 50k 1er is more than likely out of the price range of many shopping for a 30k Stang.

[bmwzone]

I love my 135i 6mt coupe and even think it looks cool (while most don't like the looks) but there is no way that black 5.0 in thr YouTube video I posted is remotely not great looking. Not to mention great sounding. A beast in a straight line. And around .95 on the skidpad with the track pack brembo option.

The 2010 holds it's own winning even some against the 400+hp Camaro Challenger etc just imagine how the 5.0 will do. I'll be finding out when mine arrives to compliment my 135i in two months or so.

[BForbes]

Originally Posted by bmwzone

I love my 135i 6mt coupe and even think it looks cool (while most don't like the looks) but there is no way that black 5.0 in thr YouTube video I posted is remotely not great looking. Not to mention great sounding. A beast in a straight line. And around .95 on the skidpad with the track pack brembo option.

The 2010 holds it's own winning even some against the 400+hp Camaro Challenger etc just imagine how the 5.0 will do. I'll be finding out when mine arrives to compliment my 135i in two months or so.

I love the GT for the same reasons. You dont have to convince me. I'll definitely give one a test drive. I just wholeheartedly believe the M1 serves its purpose.

[NYC6]

Originally Posted by Primo135

Just because they sell a lot of them doesn't mean they're cool. Guess how many N' Sync albums sold in a year. The Mustang is still ugly IMO and looks cheap. I could give two left testicles if it's "faster" in a straight line. Call me a brand whore, elitest, or pig headed, but I wouldn't even rent one of those. Are those headlights foglights? Yuck!

Ditto on the Focus RS sentiment though... last I heard Ford was looking to combine their European and American small car groups which would mean that the RS may come to the US afterall. Likely with shitty seats from a Taurus though or something - we always get screwed on the seats.

Only have one question for you if you please.............how many left testicles do you have?

[PrimoM3]

Originally Posted by NYC6

Only have one question for you if you please.............how many left testicles do you have?

I dare not say.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by Primo135

Just because they sell a lot of them doesn't mean they're cool. Guess how many N' Sync albums sold in a year. The Mustang is still ugly IMO and looks cheap. I could give two left testicles if it's "faster" in a straight line. Call me a brand whore, elitest, or pig headed, but I wouldn't even rent one of those. Are those headlights foglights? Yuck!

So what about when it's faster around a road course? It has been in the past, and you can bet your ass this new one will be.

Where does this whole "fast in a straight line" BS come from anyway? A Mustang is the about the fastest track car you can buy off the showroom floor!

[grant]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

A Mustang is the about the fastest track car you can buy off the showroom floor!

It might be one of the fastest I can afford, but it is FAR from the fastest. Staying in the American Muscle Car genre, a Viper ACR would absolutely destroy any stock street-legal Mustang's laptime.

[NYC6]

You are the first person I ever heard call the Viper a muscle car. The Viper is not a Muscle Car. It is a Sports car through and through.

[grant]

Originally Posted by NYC6

You are the first person I ever heard call the Viper a muscle car. The Viper is not a Muscle Car. It is a Sports car through and through.

What are your definitions of Sportscar and Muscle Car?

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by grant

It might be one of the fastest I can afford, but it is FAR from the fastest. Staying in the American Muscle Car genre, a Viper ACR would absolutely destroy any stock street-legal Mustang's laptime.

Good grief. Stop being pedantic.

I'm obviously talking about when compared to vehicles in its price range. Do I really need to qualify every single statement made here as if I'm writing a legal document? A little commen sense on the part of the people reading it is assumed, and would certainly be appreciated.

A Viper ACR would destroy a $30k Mustang? Well no kidding?!

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by grant

What are your definitions of Sportscar and Muscle Car?

You can't SERIOUSLY be suggesting a Viper isn't a sports car..can you?

I guess you'd exclude the Vette as well?

The two are "sports cars" by the very definition of the word.

Example:

"small fast car: a small car with a low center of gravity designed for fast acceleration and for handling at high speeds"

A Viper isn't in any way, shape, or form a Muscle car, and if you think it is you don't even know the meaning of the term. A Muscle car is a vehicle that was created by shoving a high powered engine into an existing chassis, typically a mid-sized car, and with the main goal of going fast in a straight line for an affordable price. The Viper is none of those things.