135i or 08 STi or EVO X??

[damian]

Originally Posted by AwesomeBMW

How? If they make the best cars IMO, why should I switch?

And you know it's the best how?

My favorite is how I'll reference Consumer Reports in response to "BMW's are better built than Subarus" and get replies like "yeah, but that's not taking the actual driving into consideration!"

Sorry, but almost every vehicle in Subarus lineup is perennially a consumer reports top pick. BMWs are not.

[damian]

Originally Posted by atr_hugo

That's a great philosophy, but the car companies hate it. ; -)

I know, the Subaru dealership got a bit upset when they found out i was not getting a Subaru this time. I gotta sow my wild oats!

[Evolved]

Originally Posted by AwesomeBMW

How? If they make the best cars IMO, why should I switch?

Because it's narrow minded thinking. To suggest that only one company is capable of building a quality car is insane.

Again, no one is saying that you should switch. If that's what you like, great, stay with it. But to suggest that other cars are shit simply because they aren't made by BMW is where the problem arises. Not saying that's want you're doing. I'm just using you to make a point.

[AwesomeBMW]

Originally Posted by damian

And you know it's the best how?

My favorite is how I'll reference Consumer Reports in response to "BMW's are better built than Subarus" and get replies like "yeah, but that's not taking the actual driving into consideration!"

Sorry, but almost every vehicle in Subarus lineup is perennially a consumer reports top pick. BMWs are not.

There's this new concept called test drives. And by using my brain, I can formulate an opinion on which is the best for me. And if it happens to be a BMW every time, then so be it. I'm not a fanboy. I have consided other cars in the past (from Audis to Infinitis to Nissan 350Z, etc.), but I think BMW brings the best stuff to the table.

Consumer Reports is great for a basic idea, but they aren't me, are they? Their opinion will differ from mine, because we have different standards.

[damian]

Originally Posted by AwesomeBMW

There's this new concept called test drives. And by using my brain, I can formulate an opinion on which is the best for me. And if it happens to be a BMW every time, then so be it. I'm not a fanboy. I have consided other cars in the past (from Audis to Infinitis to Nissan 350Z, etc.), but I think BMW brings the best stuff to the table.

Consumer Reports is great for a basic idea, but they aren't me, are they? Their opinion will differ from mine, because we have different standards.

Right, because they remove subjective factors. Test drive doesn't tell you how long the engine is going to last. It's like choosing a wife after a first date.

[AwesomeBMW]

Originally Posted by damian

Right, because they remove subjective factors. Test drive doesn't tell you how long the engine is going to last. It's like choosing a wife after a first date.

But the subjective factors are definitley a big part of choosing a car. The raw performance numbers and how long the engine will last may recommend one vehicle, but the interior and driving comforts (that are subjective) could be complete crap (pardon the language). I buy based on the package

[FleaDog]

Some dyno plots for reference

Vishnu dyno's (335i) from edmunds.com




STI (06) from cobb:




EVO 8,9 (dynojet)



Now think power delivery in the real world. BMW: nice big flat torque/HP curve, STI somewhere in between, EVO less down low, then bang -->boost-->throw you into the seat. Gotta keep the revs/turbo spooling in the evo to keep it in the power band. Power is 'on-tap', and more accessible a lot earlier with the n54. This translates to far better ease in everyday driveability. Those who've driven a N/A v6/8 and evo's/sti's know what this means. If you dont, you really have to get some seat time in these different cars to feel it yourself.

[atr_hugo]

I used to own a '79 turbo 4-Cyl Mustang, that was, ahem, not quite stock. I test drove an '85 Mustang GT and used the same technique for coming outta the corner with it as I did the turbo car (after all - they looked the same on the inside ; -).

About half way through the 90 degree bend and I'm hard on the throttle to bring the boost up. Car sideways. Kid in the backseat laughing, screaming, 'do it again!' The salesman gouging his way through the passenger armrest and me exclaiming, "Oh, I forgot, these come with torque."

[YYZATC]

Maybe they can fly!

[FleaDog]

ansti with a 2.5rs trunk lid

[dna550]

Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution GSR vrs. Subaru Impreza WRX STI

Page 48

R&T picks the EVO over the STI. They attribute their choice to the EVO's fabulous AYC System, which has so elevated its handling and fun factor above the STI that when it came to choosing a winner, Sam and I looked at each other said at the same time: "I want the Evo." No debate needed.

Tested at the Streets of Willow Springs International Motorsports Park.

Sam Mitani & Mike Monticello Photos by John Lamm & Jeff Allen

[Dave]

i hated always reading articles where the sti came in last ...

but stis dont always have to be ugly with huge scoops and fins!

my old sleepy sti:

[sethchan]

Originally Posted by YYZATC

Maybe they can fly!

:w00t:

Still not much altitude, though. Or is this a photo of takeoff/landing?

[sethchan]

Originally Posted by damian

One can be a diehard EVO, STi, and/or 135i guy all at the same time. The difference is that appreciating the assets of a given car does not require irrational criticism of another.

Lookie someone mentioned the wing again! Did you note that the only reason I posted those pictures is because someone questioned whether it looked like a rally car?

Again, for the slow, this is the conversation:

a: I don't want a car that looks fast but isn't.
b: it is fast, and looks like a rally car
c: it looks like a rally car?
b: pics
c,d,e: I hate rally cars!

You guys are like Johnnie Cochrane presenting the wookie defense.

Saying that I prefer a car that's faster than it looks to a car that looks faster than it is does not imply that the STI and EVO are not fast, just that they look faster than they are. I believe that something with a wing on it should actually fly or, if not that, be fast like a Formula 1 car is fast. And saying that the 135i is faster than it looks also doesn't necessarily imply that the 135i is fast, just that there is more there than meets the eye. A car could be faster than it looks but still not be all that fast.

Another way to put it is that I wouldn't want to drive something that looks like a rally car on the street. That's also a more accurate summary of c,d,e than "I hate rally cars."

My comment was about style and how much one wants one's car to scream "Look at me! I'm fast!" I like a little discretion. A car that doesn't look like it's trying to prove something. A car that doesn't look particularly fast, but under that mild-mannered exterior...

Which is true about all of the M cars as well as about the 135i. BMW could put a lot of scoops and wings on its M cars if they wanted the way the car looks to advertise its speed. Instead, a minor modification here and there and a couple of small M badges. It's just an aesthetic choice.

But then, I'm 48 years old. I would look ridiculous climbing out of an EVO or STI unless, perhaps, I was a highly skilled rally car driver, which I'm not.

Plenty of people think the 135i is ugly, too. I think a German magazine said that that curve below the door looks like a pig's belly.

What's the wookie defense?

[sethchan]

Originally Posted by FleaDog

ansti with a 2.5rs trunk lid

Much faster than it looks.

[damian]

Originally Posted by sethchan

What's the wookie defense?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chewbacca_defense

I agree completely about wanting an understated car. I just don't think the STi and/or Evo qualify as looking faster than they are. Te STi especially. It's a hatch, I think it looks slow.

[sethchan]

Originally Posted by damian

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chewbacca_defense

I agree completely about wanting an understated car. I just don't think the STi and/or Evo qualify as looking faster than they are. Te STi especially. It's a hatch, I think it looks slow.

Yeah, I'm not personally convinced they look that fast, either. But they seem to be designed to look like they are fast. I mean, that appears to be the intention. Scoops, spoilers, wings, flared fenders -- these are all "speed" design cues to me.

[Evolved]

Originally Posted by sethchan

Yeah, I'm not personally convinced they look that fast, either. But they seem to be designed to look like they are fast. I mean, that appears to be the intention. Scoops, spoilers, wings, flared fenders -- these are all "speed" design cues to me.

Again I can't believe that this still gets brought up this many years after these cars were released. It's all functional, those scoops, wings and flared fenders are like that for a reason. Whether it be for engine cooling, brake cooling, added downforce, feed air into the intake, etc., etc., etc. They didn't just slap parts on a car and send it out the door. And it's not for marketing purposes.

There is a lot of research and devolpment that goes into these cars.

[Evolved]

Originally Posted by sethchan

Saying that I prefer a car that's faster than it looks to a car that looks faster than it is does not imply that the STI and EVO are not fast, just that they look faster than they are. I believe that something with a wing on it should actually fly or, if not that, be fast like a Formula 1 car is fast. And saying that the 135i is faster than it looks also doesn't necessarily imply that the 135i is fast, just that there is more there than meets the eye. A car could be faster than it looks but still not be all that fast.

Another way to put it is that I wouldn't want to drive something that looks like a rally car on the street. That's also a more accurate summary of c,d,e than "I hate rally cars."

My comment was about style and how much one wants one's car to scream "Look at me! I'm fast!" I like a little discretion. A car that doesn't look like it's trying to prove something. A car that doesn't look particularly fast, but under that mild-mannered exterior...

Which is true about all of the M cars as well as about the 135i. BMW could put a lot of scoops and wings on its M cars if they wanted the way the car looks to advertise its speed. Instead, a minor modification here and there and a couple of small M badges. It's just an aesthetic choice.

But then, I'm 48 years old. I would look ridiculous climbing out of an EVO or STI unless, perhaps, I was a highly skilled rally car driver, which I'm not.

Plenty of people think the 135i is ugly, too. I think a German magazine said that that curve below the door looks like a pig's belly.

What's the wookie defense?

Look faster than they are? How many $33k sedans can run very low 13's to high 12's stock?

Also you seem to really worry about how other people look at you.

And to wrap things up the M3 comparison is silly because German and Japanese styling is a lot different. Again, the look of the car also conveys the heritage of the car.

[MrRoboto]

To be honest I am getting a bit tired of hearing how great the EVO and the STI are. This is a BMW forum.

[damian]

It's a comparison thread. There's no reason to feel insecure about it. Check out NASIOC (subaru forum) and you'll find a bunch of people pissed when we talk about the 135i. I like getting the opinions of both groups to remove as much subjectivity as possible from the discussion.

[PrematureApex]

Originally Posted by MrRoboto

To be honest I am getting a bit tired of hearing how great the EVO and the STI are. This is a BMW forum.

Please, by all means then, refrain from clicking on the thread titled 135i or 08 STi or EVO X...


Alternatively, if you do decide to read the thread...how about just not postining it?