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12-18-2008, 12:25 PM | #155 |
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12-18-2008, 12:27 PM | #156 | |
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Thank you, and actually in this case it was a BMW regional rep that made the call, without even bothering to look into the real cause of the problem. All he needed to know was that there was a wiring modification at the ECU, and that was it, case closed. They're not impartial by any means, and that's exactly why it's not fair. That said, I have options that could swing this back my way, I'm not exercising them just because of the time and money involved, and what I'd get for my trouble. If I were someone who wasn't capable of fixing this problem on my own (meaning labor hours were going to be involved), I would probably take a different attitude about it. |
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12-18-2008, 12:28 PM | #157 | |
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After you damaged the vehicle? Of course there is.
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12-18-2008, 12:30 PM | #158 |
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Don't you think that is offensive to members on this board that work for dealerships? We have plenty (Sales/Techs)
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12-18-2008, 12:38 PM | #159 |
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No, there isn't. I think you are trying to imply that fraud is present, but that's not true...but then again it depends on who's side your on :wink:.
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12-18-2008, 12:41 PM | #160 |
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Ok, so is it also illegal if a car is involved in an accident, dealer fixes it, and its resold to an unsuspecting consumer? We'd be arresting quite a few CAs.
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12-18-2008, 12:56 PM | #161 | |
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That said, you are right, there is no fraud in removing codes or mods from your car. However, as soon as you use this act to try to pass off the car as not having had mods or not having thrown codes, it becomes fraud. The fraud is in the deception. As soon as you state to the dealer that you have not modded the car it is fraud. (Or do you plan to come clean if they ask?) All of you armchair attorneys (particularly those quoting MFA to defend altering performance parameters) really need to run this by a qualified professional. Ignorance is no excuse in the eyes of the law. |
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12-18-2008, 01:01 PM | #162 | |
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Would you mind going through the elements of fraud, and how removing the codes for service would safisfy those elements?
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12-18-2008, 01:18 PM | #163 |
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Here's the elements I picked up. Didn't go through them all, but it appears that proving damages is going to be the biggest issue. Ya'll are assuming a hell of a lot when you talk about there being fraud...
1. The first element is a false representation of material fact. 2. false representation be made with knowledge of its falsity, recklessly, or without reasonable grounds for believing its truth. 3. Intent to induce reliance. 4. Justifiable reliance. THe dealer's reliance may not be justifiable in light of the plaintiff's (dealers) intelligence and experience. 5. Damages. Are there any? If the problem is unrelated to the mods (i.e. factory defect, pre-existing problem), then the dealer should have fixed it anyways.
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12-18-2008, 01:39 PM | #164 | |
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Oh.. and I'm an engineer, not a lawyer, but thanks for the tidy list.
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12-18-2008, 02:00 PM | #165 | |
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I'm not suggesting that we shouldn't "pay to play". I'm just saying that I think the dealer is more likely to break the rules than me. This is what needs to be done sometimes to keep things fair. After all, they are the ***elerships, right? :biggrin:
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12-18-2008, 02:00 PM | #166 |
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I was going to google "warranty fraud" here at work......but.......decided against it haha
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12-18-2008, 02:01 PM | #167 | |
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+1000000000000
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12-18-2008, 02:26 PM | #168 | |
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If we are going to be that sensitive about that type of adjective then we probably should ban the use of a word like 'ricer'(rice, riced, ricing, etc, etc...) and its implied stereotypical connotations don't you think? |
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12-18-2008, 02:47 PM | #169 | |
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And for the record, "stealership" is such a hack term. |
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12-18-2008, 02:51 PM | #170 |
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Hack term, yet unfortunately, frequently true.
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12-18-2008, 02:55 PM | #171 |
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Isn't "rice" just Race Inspired Cosmetic Enhansements? But I only got that recently...for the longest time I thought it referred to region the cars usually originated. And I was quite offended too
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12-18-2008, 04:00 PM | #172 |
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Than don't buy their product, no one is forcing you to hand your money over to them.
um.......no. |
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12-18-2008, 04:03 PM | #173 |
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yeah, great point.
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