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04-08-2010, 10:45 PM | #155 |
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04-08-2010, 10:46 PM | #156 |
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Most likely the m3's performance will go down. law of gravity says what goes up must comes down, therefore the higher one is he will fall the hardest ;-)
Does that bother you? Last edited by Robert; 04-08-2010 at 11:44 PM.. |
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04-08-2010, 11:42 PM | #157 | |
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The Ring: SR8 Supersport/LM @ 6:48 VIR: Mosler MT 900S @ 2:45.9 Laguna Seca: Dodge Viper SRT-10 ACR @ 1:33.92 My response is not meant to be a pro-turbo or anti-turbo response. All that it is meant to do is point out that comparing a turbo'ed engine on a 200k Ferrari to a engine on a 50k BMW doesn't make much sense. Whether better or worse, don't think for a second that BMW's move to FI on their //M cars has anything to do with what will yield the best track performance or experience. Its based purely on EPA standards, production costs and the general buying public's obsession with torque. Either way, M1 (can't believe they are going to use that name) looks to be shaping up to be a great car. Cheers, e46e92
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"...it's not about the money and not about the brand of the car, it's about handling,performance and passion......And that, no other car has all together like an M3........when you talk about the most complete car the M is invincible." --Tony Kanaan. Last edited by e46e92love; 04-10-2010 at 01:40 PM.. |
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04-08-2010, 11:49 PM | #158 |
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I am going to stick my neck out and share a few opinions. This is an early M1. They have just not gotten to the hood, trunk, or changes needed to integrate quad exhaust yet. The pictures do seem to verify M3 suspension though. I made an earlier post saying it will rob the M3 parts bin and have long thought they would just use the entire front and rear suspension right out of the M3.
The widened M3 track fits when you can widen the fenders, as they have, and is low cost as the tooling cost have been covered by the M3. Of course springs and shocks would be tuned, maybe even sway bars too, but in the pictures the brakes look M3, the rear suspension looks M3, even the tires look to have the right widths. They would probably skip the adjustable shocks and such to control cost and separate it from the M3. I also think the engine will be great. I am betting on a twin turbo using two twin scroll turbo chargers. I have thought a lot about this, and may be wrong, but a great way to do this would be to set it similar to the N54 but drive only one side of each twin scroll at low rpm to spool it faster, and then flow both scrolls at high rpm. I tried many other scenarios and this one is the simplest, has great exhaust flow efficiency, and would give great low speed response and high rpm performance like you would want in an M engine. I think part of the weight savings could come from a magnesium block that would help with weight distribution too. We will see about my engine guesses, as all the above is predicted from the hints Scott has given and many years of turbo experience, but I feel really confident about the suspension coming directly from the M3. We will see...... |
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04-08-2010, 11:55 PM | #159 |
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one problem with your post. Im not sure that a magnesium block would be strong enough to handle a boosted motor. But im sure that the M guys know whats up when it comes to engines. Im just gonna leave it up to them to make something special.
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04-09-2010, 06:45 AM | #160 | |
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135 vs m3 stock for stock, very close but the 135 beats it, i beat my friend's m3 and we traded cars for a day and he beat me with my 135. its not all about pricetag.. and after just $650 for a jb3 2.0 i beat the new m3 by 4.5+ car lengths pulling on m3s in every gear. what im trying to say is that if they made a 135m, it would blow the m3 out of the water because the stock 135 already is stupid fast. so in a marketing perspective it makes no logical sense. and ive spoken to a few people at bmw north america near where i live and they agreed. |
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04-09-2010, 06:51 AM | #161 | |
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04-09-2010, 06:57 AM | #163 | |
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The 135 is an amazing car and probably a better value than the m3. But if "properly modded" results in an all-around better track car, why don't pro teams use them more (ignoring some racing regulations prohibiting the 135 from certain competitive class participation such as the case with the turner 135 race-prepped car that is, incidentally, for sale in the back of this month's roundel magazine)? I mean, lets be frank, if you could get more performance out of a modded m3 vs. a modded 135 (at the pro driver skill level), then we'd see 135 teams abound. Empirically, we don't notice that phenomenon for the same reason that we don't see an abundance of m5 teams....the m5's (or 135's) pure potential, even modded, doesn't exceed that of a comparably modified m3. And as for the 911 price point comment - hard to argue with that. Doesn't mean I won't try - a heavily modded m3 could toast the base 911 just like a heavily modded 135 could toast the m3....hence my earlier reference to the 135 value (based on cost vs. performance). ....Just my opinion. |
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04-09-2010, 07:57 AM | #164 | |
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Right, and a properly modded Honda Civic will smoke (enter car of choice here)..... I have ridden in many "modded" cars with the N54--just doesn't feel, sound, or give the same satisfaction that an ///M car does....it is just my opinion, but one that I have heard from numerous other folks as well....
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04-09-2010, 08:12 AM | #165 | |
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This is such a tired debate. A normal stock 135i with a JB3 and pump gas doesn't SMOKE an M3 for goodness sake. It just makes it even more competitive. It takes a lot of work besides HP to make a car go fast. Gearing, traction, etc. I've seen these cars do crazy things with software tweaking but people on here are stretching. Just look at this 335i with 340rwhp and 390 at the wheels: http://www.insideline.com/bmw/3-seri...35i-coupe.html What are you guys definition of smoke? Does a JB3 really enable a N54 equipped car to beat 4.1seconds to 60mph and 12.6 in the quartermile? That is a serious jump from 4.8 and 13.3 IMO.
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04-09-2010, 08:26 AM | #166 | |
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If you want something that is fast in a straight line, there are a lot of better choices out there than a pudgy 135 with mods... Obviously, you don't understand the nature of the 135's weight. It is less than 200 pounds lighter than the E92, and has a higher drag coefficient. So it is a push.... And when you say that your 135 "smoked" the M3--was that from stoplight to stoplight? Because the N54 poops out once you get into higher speeds, with the boost falling off like an anvil above 5000 RPM or so....
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04-09-2010, 08:28 AM | #167 |
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How often these threads go off topic which effects the whole mood and at times never return to the original subject matter.
Guys if you really want to start up a discussion on whether a 135i or whatever is quicker/better than an M3 then by all means go ahead, but please lets keep these 1M threads clear of such debates. Thanks. |
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04-09-2010, 08:32 AM | #168 | |
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In fact a a M3 reaches 150mph in less than 25 seconds. It takes a stock 135i 25.6 sec to reach 140mph. That 25.6 was the fastest time I found. CarandD also has it at 27.9sec. The spread to get another 10mph to 150 will take at least 3-4seconds. These differences are too massive to ignore. http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...the_way_page_2 http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezfl...48a911069c.pdf
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04-09-2010, 09:37 AM | #169 | |
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04-09-2010, 09:44 AM | #170 |
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I've driven both cars...M3 takes the cake by far.. much more rewarding to drive. End of story. Let's hope they can make an M1/1M that can reward us the same way, without having to put so many mods causing our warranty to go ba bye. I may just buy a X1 damn they look nice and than swap engines from an SRT Cherokkee ....ladder part was a joke<
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04-09-2010, 09:45 AM | #171 | |
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I remember how much expense and new tech M but into the current M5 V10 and M3 V8. Look at the current M X5/X6 too. It may be wishful thinking, but you can only remove so much weight with a carbon fiber roof, plastic fenders, and lightened hood and trunk. If some of the weight reduction claims are true I thought an improved magnesium block might be a possibility. The current block has been out for years and upgrades are possible. We will see.......and I cannot wait. I have had modded cars and factory specials and for me I like to take the factory specials and mod those. They usually start as a better engineered package. |
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04-09-2010, 10:11 AM | #172 | |
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If there are two turbos on an I6 engine, they can't be twin scroll because the exhaust pulses are already alternating between the two turbos. The only way to really change the engine would be to make it sequential turbo. If they put bigger turbos on there people will bitch about lag, but that'd be the only way to make more power to redline without dropping off. And I doubt they'll have variable vane turbos like Porsche. Or maybe since it's an N55 they can put slightly larger turbos on and still get similar boost response and spool. Last edited by Muffnbluff; 04-09-2010 at 10:18 AM.. |
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04-09-2010, 10:53 AM | #173 | |
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04-09-2010, 03:19 PM | #175 |
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04-09-2010, 03:23 PM | #176 |
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Are you sure that's correct? I find it hard to believe that the M3 turns around 4000rpm at 80mph...
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