Stainless steel brake lines

[pj.rodriguez]

What's the deal with them? Why are some against it and some for it?

[Pyrat 2]

Originally Posted by pj.rodriguez

What's the deal with them? Why are some against it and some for it?

Don't know why. I have them on both my E90 and E82. It eliminates some squishiness in the brakes. Better brake feel.

[Fidiman]

I have it too (the Goodridge brake lines) and they give me more braking force ! I will probabely feel an improvement on track !

[Kgolf31]

Modern brake lines are already reinforced a substantial amount to where on a normal street car or lightly tracked car will see no improvement.

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

Modern brake lines are already reinforced a substantial amount to where on a normal street car or lightly tracked car will see no improvement.

Moreover, a lot of the flex is at the master cylinder.

[Pyrat 2]

Better brake feel.

[hoki06]

Take some time to read up on the subject and make a decision on what you think is best. There has been tons of discussion on the topic over there years, here's just a small sampling that I found had good info.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...=brake%20lines

Without getting too much into it, I think that people "feeling" an improved pedal feel is more of a placebo effect instead of an actual improvement. As Kgolf31 said, modern brake lines are already reinforced internally and are designed to handle the pressures the system is capable of. On my E36 M3 track car, I used OEM brake lines because I trust what BMW has designed and see no need to switch to SS lines. My pedal feel is great and I have never had a single issue.

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by HeelToe

Better brake feel.

See below:

Originally Posted by hoki06

Take some time to read up on the subject and make a decision on what you think is best. There has been tons of discussion on the topic over there years, here's just a small sampling that I found had good info.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...=brake%20lines

Without getting too much into it, I think that people "feeling" an improved pedal feel is more of a placebo effect instead of an actual improvement. As Kgolf31 said, modern brake lines are already reinforced internally and are designed to handle the pressures the system is capable of. On my E36 M3 track car, I used OEM brake lines because I trust what BMW has designed and see no need to switch to SS lines. My pedal feel is great and I have never had a single issue.

Bingo. I know ton of NASA cars as well as SpecE30...etc that run OEM lines with no issues

[Pyrat 2]

Never said there was an issue. Stock works fine and I never had an issue. When I switched the pedal was more firm under hard braking on my e90. My opinion is that it felt better. Honestly never did the comparison on my e82 - just put them on based on my e90 experience.

Lots of similar debates on other mods. CDV, LSD, SSK, wheels that weigh more or less than stock, rear suspension bushings, strut braces,...There is no right answer on any of these. If you want the mod and are willing to pay for it then do it.

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by HeelToe

Never said there was an issue. Stock works fine and I never had an issue. When I switched the pedal was more firm under hard braking on my e90. My opinion is that it felt better. Honestly never did the comparison on my e82 - just put them on based on my e90 experience.

Lots of similar debates on other mods. CDV, LSD, rear suspension bushings, strut braces,...There is no right answer on any of these. If you want the mod and are willing to pay for it then do it.

Not really. A fair parallel would be cold air intakes, unless you were referring to BS hinged strut bars.

The rest of those mods have real benefits.

[Pyrat 2]

Agree to disagree.

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by HeelToe

Never said there was an issue. Stock works fine and I never had an issue. When I switched the pedal was more firm under hard braking on my e90. My opinion is that it felt better. Honestly never did the comparison on my e82 - just put them on based on my e90 experience.

Lots of similar debates on other mods. CDV, LSD, SSK, wheels that weigh more or less than stock, rear suspension bushings, strut braces,...There is no right answer on any of these. If you want the mod and are willing to pay for it then do it.

The point we're trying to make, is that "a firm pedal" is subjective. Did you measure the pressure before and after? If not, then there is no actual evidence supporting this claim.

CDV increases flow through the clutch line letting the clutch engage and disengage quicker.

LSD spins both wheels constantly increasing traction in low traction situations

SSK shortens the throw decreasing shifting time

Wheels decrease unsprung weight, increasing acceleration.

These are all measurable items, and well documented.


I'm not trying to argue, I think it is just in your head. I've done high speed threshold braking around 140 mph on the track and have no failures, soft pedals, or loss of feel with oem lines

Originally Posted by TheSt|G

Not really. A fair parallel would be cold air intakes, unless you were referring to BS hinged strut bars.

The rest of those mods have real benefits.

+1

[Pyrat 2]

My subjective assessment on my e90 was that the feel was better. I too track my car(s) so I have that experience. It was $100 well spent in my mind. So I did it again on the E82. If you don't have them installed on your car or an E90 then you have no experience to say that there is not a difference in feel. You can question it but you can't say that the feel is not better.

So to the original poster. It's a $100. Do you need them? No. Will they make a difference in performance? No. Will you be able to feel the difference. My personal experience is yes. Your call.

[pj.rodriguez]

I know this will not be a fair comparison at all, but I've tried stock to steel lines on a Honda and it made a difference in pedal feel. But I know that this could be a noticeable difference because of the fact that Honda didn't make the car to be pushed. OE lines seem to be working well for me, and I was just looking to see what people had to say about them.

[135ivert]

Originally Posted by pj.rodriguez

I know this will not be a fair comparison at all, but I've tried stock to steel lines on a Honda and it made a difference in pedal feel. But I know that this could be a noticeable difference because of the fact that Honda didn't make the car to be pushed. OE lines seem to be working well for me, and I was just looking to see what people had to say about them.

Well, what else did you change at the same time you put in the SS lines? You had to have changed the brake fluid and probably did pads and rotors at the same time? I'm not trying to be combative but just point out that you probably made multiple changes at the same time.

For me, I put SS lines on my 4Runner. It's a 2004 and the dryness of CO is death to rubber. I have great braking power and solid pedal feel, but I did upgrade my rotors, fluid and pads at the same time. It's hard to tell what specifically the SS lines improved. But at $180 for the entire vehicle, it was an easy decision for me. If you're doing brake work . . .it's not a lot of cash comparatively.

[JTB]

As a counter point, I have seen more failures with SS lines... Not due to integrity problems but rather installation issues. Often the SS lines are not exactly the same length, nor do they necessarily install the same way. When installed incorrectly they can rub on wheels, control arms, etc. SS also has sawing effect on softer materials and can cut other essential parts - Wheel speed sensor lines as an example.

Food for thought.

[hoki06]

For those of you that say you felt a difference after installing SS lines, do you think that the pedal difference could be because you changed fluid and/or pads at the same time instead of just the new lines? It very well could also that your fluid had small air bubbles or water in the fluid prior to the change and the system was bled better after the install. IMO those things will change pedal feel much more than rubber to SS lines.

I guess my overall point is why would BMW (or any manufacturer in today's age of cars) fit their vehicles with brake lines that will bulge/flex under max system pressure? Of all the design and R&D our cars go through, I find it hard to believe they would miss something like that.

[uberschnell]

Between my E90 and e82 I honestly can't say I felt a difference both on and off the track from stock lines. The only reason I have them on the front is because I swapped over to a BBK. That said, it doesn’t hurt to refresh your break lines every few years. I found properly bleeding your brakes every few months has a much bigger impact on feel.

I did have one bad experience with SS brake lines. On my E90 one of my rear lines began squirting fluid. Upon inspection the Steel had "work-hardened" at the point where it connected to the caliper. Once the steel braid gave it cut into the rubber hose and opened it up. In any case, I inspect all my lines now whenever I have the wheels off.

[bmw1racer]

I've heard that the stainless steel jacket abrades the hose inside over time, causing a leak... And the dirt and grit that collects on the jacket just exacerbates the problem.

[mechavore884]

Ive just known personally better braking feel and they don't necessarily corrode or (tend to anyways) leak like rubber lines. But then again Ive never really seen bmw's have that kind of problem

[128Convertibleguy]

"What's the deal with them? Why are some against it and some for it?"

Even if done well, the gain over stock lines in good condition is small. Some will notice it, some won't.

But the real deal is this. Few will do it well. There's a large difference in quality between various SS lines, fittings, and installers.

So, who actually bothers to get the good stuff, that's used in airplanes and pro race cars? It's not likely to come in a low budget kit for your car, so fabrication will be necessary. Who has an installer with experience in fabricating and installing the good stuff? The potential downsides of doing it wrong, or even low quality, are big. More in the book below. Even though it's old, and likely not up to date on the latest lines and fittings, it will give you an idea about what's involved in doing it right. Or doing most other mods right, for that matter. Carroll can explain it better than I can:

http://www.amazon.com/Prepare-Win-Bo.../dp/0615547338

If a brake mod is done poorly, the consequences could be serious. At best, you've wasted money.

[Fidiman]

Go for Goodridge brake lines, you won't be disappointed