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      02-11-2009, 01:45 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Canexican View Post
Dude, your car has 100 less hp than the 370Z. The 370Z and the 135i have nearly identical acceleration figures. So, let's just say that because your car "kept up" on a highway doesn't mean its even remotely as fast. If he was trying to lose you, he would have.
+1, the 370Z has actually in some cases put up better numbers than the 135i
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      02-11-2009, 01:46 PM   #24
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Hey Canexican. Clearly you don't understand how cars work other than in a 1/4 mile straight line. I was doing a 110mph on the freeway. Not from a stoplight down a track. I was on that 370's ass because everyone else on the fwy was doing roughly 70 -80. I have a 128 with sport pack and regardless of HP, my top speed is electronically limited to 150mph -- same as the 135 and 335. 110mph was a cakewalk for my car. I could've easily gotten past the 370 if I wanted to. And make no mistake a 370z is no GTR. It's top speed is probably somewhere in the 140 -150 range as well.

One thing I did notice were some clapped out rice racers trying to keep up with the both of us. One was a Celica and another was a newer civic 4 door. Neither one of those could keep up.

I don't understand why people think the 128 is underpowered. It has the same engine as both the 328 and 528 and is much lighter an nimble than both of those cars.


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Originally Posted by Canexican View Post
Dude, your car has 100 less hp than the 370Z. The 370Z and the 135i have nearly identical acceleration figures. So, let's just say that because your car "kept up" on a highway doesn't mean its even remotely as fast. If he was trying to lose you, he would have.


In straight line performance, its going to come down to the driver. Both cars are mid-low 14 seconds and trap about 97mph. If you have a manual, you'd probably get to 60 a bit quicker than the SST-transmissioned Ralliart due to notoriously lazy engagement of the SST from low-no rpm.

On a track, I would take the Bimmer any day. The SST might have faster upshifts, but that doesn't make up for a less balanced chassis and crappy 215 width tires. The BMW is more of a drivers car than the Ralliart. Think of the Ralliart as more of a turbo'd lancer with the Evo IX AWD system than simply a detuned Evo X. The Ralliart doesn't have the Evo X's susspension, it doesn't have AYC (active yaw control), it doesn't have as large of a turbo or as aggressive of cams, and the battery is in the front verus the Evo X's rear creating even greater push in the corners. all day.
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      02-11-2009, 02:49 PM   #25
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vs this
That has to be the most bland 1er interior photo yet :\
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      02-11-2009, 08:04 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by bigmicj View Post
Hey Canexican. Clearly you don't understand how cars work other than in a 1/4 mile straight line. I was doing a 110mph on the freeway. Not from a stoplight down a track. I was on that 370's ass because everyone else on the fwy was doing roughly 70 -80. I have a 128 with sport pack and regardless of HP, my top speed is electronically limited to 150mph -- same as the 135 and 335. 110mph was a cakewalk for my car. I could've easily gotten past the 370 if I wanted to. And make no mistake a 370z is no GTR. It's top speed is probably somewhere in the 140 -150 range as well.

One thing I did notice were some clapped out rice racers trying to keep up with the both of us. One was a Celica and another was a newer civic 4 door. Neither one of those could keep up.

I don't understand why people think the 128 is underpowered. It has the same engine as both the 328 and 528 and is much lighter an nimble than both of those cars.
You see, I tend to rely on physics for my facts, not some obviously biased BMW owner. Newton's second law says a = F/m. So, lets take a look at that shall we:

Z = 332bhp(287whp)/3232lbs [9.7lbs/hp]
128i = 230bhp(200whp/3230lbs [14.0lbs/hp]

Not to mention that as speed increases on your apparent benchmark for a vehicles acceleration performance (note: a highway filled with traffic), a 128i's coefficient of drag is .31 to the Z's cD of .29. This is not helping your case of "easily getting past the Z if you wanted to."

I know you don't like quarter mile times (I guess because they are timed and factual?), but again the 370Z dominates with a low 13.3 @ 105.7mph to your 14.3 @ 96.5mph. A difference in trap speed of 9.2mph is pretty damn significant.

I also like how you noticed other Japanese cars and refer to them as rice. Did you know the Z is from Japan? By your logic, you could call that rice as well. You were racing rice, so doesn't that in-turn make you a "rice-racer?"

No one ever said that the 128i is underpowered, but it isn't fast and it isn't even comparable to a 370Z. Sure, you and the Z are electronically limited to 155mph, but the Z will get there hella faster than you. The Z is no GTR, but with .99 lateral g's of grip (yours is .84) and a base price just under 30k (a mere $1500 more than yours) - it is one of the best bangs for the buck out there. I don't know about cars like you, but please stop tainting the thread with lies before you get people thinking that their cars are much faster than they really are....



Ok, Back to topic.
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      02-11-2009, 08:16 PM   #27
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i take my 1er anyday, i like sport and material add up to my money worth, not some cheap ass plastic...and some gimmic SST, it's ugly...mitsubishi uses cheap material and the gauge looks like boob...

i also like to mention y the hell are you compare 370 with 128i? 370 should be compared with 135i, now do your math again. same HP class but world of difference.
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      02-11-2009, 09:22 PM   #28
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we are comparing the 370 to the 128i, because the starting price of the the 370z is near the price of the 128i.
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      02-11-2009, 10:12 PM   #29
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i still think the 128i is made with better quality materials and benefits from German design.
I stand by my original statement. The 370 may have more HP, but on the track, the win will typically go to the better driver. Even when your talking numbers like lateral g, most people only push their cars up to say 7g (i just picked some random number), well below either cars threshold .

another difference between the two cars are the basic feel. 128i is a smaller car, with a distinctive feel. the thing i hate most about nissans (and infinity), is that their drive has no sole. With BMW, the feedback, feel, steering ratios, bushings ect.. all produce an auto that just feels great and many people try to copy. why else do we find so many comparisons to BMWs, people want to prove they are better than the best. This last bit of course, is just my opinion.

Last edited by rawbert54; 02-11-2009 at 10:19 PM.. Reason: wanted to add something
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      02-11-2009, 11:27 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by rawbert54 View Post
i still think the 128i is made with better quality materials and benefits from German design.
I stand by my original statement. The 370 may have more HP, but on the track, the win will typically go to the better driver. Even when your talking numbers like lateral g, most people only push their cars up to say 7g (i just picked some random number), well below either cars threshold .

another difference between the two cars are the basic feel. 128i is a smaller car, with a distinctive feel. the thing i hate most about nissans (and infinity), is that their drive has no sole. With BMW, the feedback, feel, steering ratios, bushings ect.. all produce an auto that just feels great and many people try to copy. why else do we find so many comparisons to BMWs, people want to prove they are better than the best. This last bit of course, is just my opinion.
I'll agree to a point, but I think your opinions are based more on passed nissans versus the current 370Z. I've driven plenty of BMW's, including the 1 series, and whole-heartedly agree with your take on how communicative they are. I've got a feeling though that it would be an eye-opening experience for you to drive the new Z. Unfortunately, I have not been able to drive the new Z yet, but have been able to sit in it. The seating position is perfection and the materials are so substantially improved (from the old Z) that it feels and looks expensive. In fact, most of the touch materials on the Z are much softer than that of the 1 series. In my opinion, it is also a much more driver focused cockpit than the 1 series. Now, if we were comparing to the former 350Z, my nod would swing the other way...thats just how much better the new Z is.

I feel the Z is going to prove to be a much better all around sports car than even the 135i - it crushes the 128 hands down (no offense). The experience is going to more visceral, more raw. The 135i is probably more polished, but sometimes polished does not equal better. It is all a matter of taste. For instance, I could have gone the road of an E46 M3. I'm sure I'd be very happy with that choice, however I would have known that there was a car that with a little persuasion would provide significantly more performance...and that was what I was after. Pure performance (see: Evo). Similarly, I feel that is what the Z represents. But I would not automatically dismiss this car as "just" another Nissan. Thats like saying the GT-R is just another Nissan.
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      02-12-2009, 12:15 AM   #31
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http://www.edmunds.com said

...The 128i hits 60 mph in 5.9 seconds (5.7 seconds with 1 foot of rollout like on a drag strip) and reaches the quarter-mile in 14.3 seconds at 96.5 mph


...Ralliart...Fast, not so much. As a result, 60 mph arrives in about 6.6 seconds (6.2 seconds with 1 foot of rollout like on a drag strip).
...the Ralliart is really feeling its oats with a 14.8-second run at 94.6 mph.
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      02-12-2009, 02:06 AM   #32
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have to agree with canxican. i have a 128i mostly because i wanted a car that reminded me of my old e36 318is; basic, fun to drive and polished. if i didnt love my car so much i would have gone for the 370z or even then new camaro when it comes out, times are changing for a lot of car manufacturers where build quality and reliablity is improving. Its all about personal taste and what you want in the end.
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      02-12-2009, 02:26 AM   #33
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Geesh! thanks for the physics lesson, but in recounting my actual life experience several weeks ago, I'd rather trust what I experienced than a bunch of conjecture.

Look friend, I'm not some 16 year old kid who thinks his giant-piped, hand-me-down, Accord blew past a Boxster on his way home from the late shift at Best Buy. I have no reason to lie about the fact that my 128 comfortably did 110mph on a freeway. I'm not sure why that's so hard for you or anyone to swallow.

Wow, my humble little 128 made it past 100mph! SHOCKING! I can't believe it was able to stay running in the shadow of the new 370 king-of-the-highway Z!!

Anyway, I guess you didn't really read anything I posted in this thread before you donned your Professor "Z" cape and started spouting irrelivant stats as though they somehow qualified you to be the offical expert of all things in motion.

In none of my posts did I mention anything about a 1/4 mile drag with a Z. You did and that's fine. I have no idea how the Z pulls from a start. Nor do I really care. And, on a side note 0-60 and 1/4 mile times are not indidicative of how a car performs in the real world. You should check out the January issue of Top Gear mag where they pit a Veyron and a Zonda against each other on the track. Price, HP and 1/4 mile stats don't make the Veyron the better of the two. (By the way, there's a write up on the 370 in that issue)

In my ACTUAL (not statistically simulated) experience I was on the 101 headed home and I saw the 370 up ahead. Honestly, I sped up to look at it because I didn't think they were actually out yet. I was suprised to even see one on the road. It wasn't until we both started whipping past traffic that I looked down at my speedo and realized I was doing well over 100mph. I guess the other "rice racers" I mentioned earlier, thought we (370 & 128) were racing or something because they were noticeably weaving through the other lanes, trying to keep up with us (370 & 128)

In no way am I knocking the 370 as a great car. If it had come out last year I would have seriously considered it over my 128. But let's not get carried away. It's still a Z and not a Zonda.

Why don't you go troll some other message board.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canexican View Post
I'll agree to a point, but I think your opinions are based more on passed nissans versus the current 370Z. I've driven plenty of BMW's, including the 1 series, and whole-heartedly agree with your take on how communicative they are. I've got a feeling though that it would be an eye-opening experience for you to drive the new Z. Unfortunately, I have not been able to drive the new Z yet, but have been able to sit in it. The seating position is perfection and the materials are so substantially improved (from the old Z) that it feels and looks expensive. In fact, most of the touch materials on the Z are much softer than that of the 1 series. In my opinion, it is also a much more driver focused cockpit than the 1 series. Now, if we were comparing to the former 350Z, my nod would swing the other way...thats just how much better the new Z is.

I feel the Z is going to prove to be a much better all around sports car than even the 135i - it crushes the 128 hands down (no offense). The experience is going to more visceral, more raw. The 135i is probably more polished, but sometimes polished does not equal better. It is all a matter of taste. For instance, I could have gone the road of an E46 M3. I'm sure I'd be very happy with that choice, however I would have known that there was a car that with a little persuasion would provide significantly more performance...and that was what I was after. Pure performance (see: Evo). Similarly, I feel that is what the Z represents. But I would not automatically dismiss this car as "just" another Nissan. Thats like saying the GT-R is just another Nissan.
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      02-12-2009, 04:52 AM   #34
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ill admit i havent driven the 370 yet. most of my opinions are based on the outgoing generation and the g37. (interior of g37 is much better this time around) still have to say i wasnt crazy about the drive on the g37. i do like the looks of the 370 and will difinetly drive one soon. its obvious Im a bimmer fan, but trying to set my bias aside, I just like the BMW better. Im open minded though and hope these car companies keep trying to one up eachother.
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      02-12-2009, 08:15 AM   #35
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I Still think there is no comparison, Z is a high end sports car for nissan and 128i is lowest end of BMW, the cost is based on material used. you put heated leather seats and all that comfort in Z then compare the price, you'll find that it should have been compared to 135i.

besides if i were to buy a z it'll be 350z not 370..It's ugly. all in all, the reason we're all here is because we loved 1er and didn't go consider the Z...or any other car.
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      02-12-2009, 12:18 PM   #36
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umm people this thread is the comparision of the Mitsubishi Lancer Ralliart VS. BMW 128i Sport Package, not the 128i vs a 370z lets not forget this!
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      02-12-2009, 02:35 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmicj View Post
Geesh! thanks for the physics lesson, but in recounting my actual life experience several weeks ago, I'd rather trust what I experienced than a bunch of conjecture.

Look friend, I'm not some 16 year old kid who thinks his giant-piped, hand-me-down, Accord blew past a Boxster on his way home from the late shift at Best Buy. I have no reason to lie about the fact that my 128 comfortably did 110mph on a freeway. I'm not sure why that's so hard for you or anyone to swallow.

Wow, my humble little 128 made it past 100mph! SHOCKING! I can't believe it was able to stay running in the shadow of the new 370 king-of-the-highway Z!!

Anyway, I guess you didn't really read anything I posted in this thread before you donned your Professor "Z" cape and started spouting irrelivant stats as though they somehow qualified you to be the offical expert of all things in motion.

In none of my posts did I mention anything about a 1/4 mile drag with a Z. You did and that's fine. I have no idea how the Z pulls from a start. Nor do I really care. And, on a side note 0-60 and 1/4 mile times are not indidicative of how a car performs in the real world. You should check out the January issue of Top Gear mag where they pit a Veyron and a Zonda against each other on the track. Price, HP and 1/4 mile stats don't make the Veyron the better of the two. (By the way, there's a write up on the 370 in that issue)

In my ACTUAL (not statistically simulated) experience I was on the 101 headed home and I saw the 370 up ahead. Honestly, I sped up to look at it because I didn't think they were actually out yet. I was suprised to even see one on the road. It wasn't until we both started whipping past traffic that I looked down at my speedo and realized I was doing well over 100mph. I guess the other "rice racers" I mentioned earlier, thought we (370 & 128) were racing or something because they were noticeably weaving through the other lanes, trying to keep up with us (370 & 128)

In no way am I knocking the 370 as a great car. If it had come out last year I would have seriously considered it over my 128. But let's not get carried away. It's still a Z and not a Zonda.

Why don't you go troll some other message board.
Congratulations! Your car hit 110mph on the freeway ! Guess what...that is something a Miata can do. I once hit 143mph in my n/a 220hp FWD 3000GT and that car ran a best of 15.6@90mph. Maybe you should read your own writing as you weren't bragging about your car "comfortably doing 110mph"; you were bragging about being able to "keep up" with a car that is significantly faster. You might as well work at Best Buy because that is something a 16 year old would claim.

P.s. Quarter mile times (especially trap speeds) are pretty indicative of how a car performs in the real world - especially on a highway roll. Maybe not in your world, but certainly in everyone else's. The Z may not be a Zonda, but your 128i is no 135i.

Last time I checked, this is a public forum - BMW ownership is not a requirement. I "troll" this site because I've both driven and know alot about BMW's. I have immense appreciation for them, however I'm also aware of their capabilities. I'm sorry that you don't like what I have to say, but sometimes the truth hurts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by italiantank26 View Post
umm people this thread is the comparision of the Mitsubishi Lancer Ralliart VS. BMW 128i Sport Package, not the 128i vs a 370z lets not forget this!
I agree and for the sake of everyone else reading this thread will no longer antagonize bigmicj and the 370Z topic. I apologize for the .
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      02-12-2009, 04:46 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italiantank26 View Post
umm people this thread is the comparision of the Mitsubishi Lancer Ralliart VS. BMW 128i Sport Package, not the 128i vs a 370z lets not forget this!
ttt
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      02-15-2009, 11:16 PM   #39
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i like the interior photo comparison!
I'm a 42 friggen year old architect with a masters degree.
I'm not taking my clients/boss/employees/ dateable women to lunch in a F@#$% Mitsubishi lancer with a rental car box interior.

When I wanna go really fast thats what my italian 1000cc v twin motorcycle is all about.
When the media compares two cars, how many points do they give to "status"????
Also, new cars all smell look and feel new, when they are new. The real test is what you still have after the payments end.
my other car is a pristine 1991 318is.
While noted than Honda builds quality cars also; what else except BMW and M/B can you find from 1991 that would still be bolted together in 2009 well enough to show an indicated 130 mph on any given day. (don't even try to mention American mustangs and camero's, in 91 they were crap and are all crushed now anyway)
Have you seen the condition of any 1991 Mitsubishi's recently?
end of comparison.
I win.
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      02-15-2009, 11:35 PM   #40
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reading the 370 rant.
the 370 is a steller car, and performance compares well to a 135i on paper and in youtube media videos even wins against a 135i.
Its a two seater sports car, more of a poor mans corvette than any sort of practical daily car or status car, nor can you fit a bike in the back like my one series, or my former audi TT also swallow a bike w/ the wheels stacked on top.
370 z has great street cred, and Nissan builds great motors, but not the same image as a BMW.
Comaring it to the 128i in performance it is ahead by a margin, however the 128i DOES cruise comfortably at triple digits.
Lets all remember back to the late 1990's, BMW M3 was also considered a Steller performance car at $40,000, with a 3 liter staight six at 240hp, 17inch wheels, 3200lb curb weight.
I had a 95 M3 myself, and in 2008-9 the 128i is 230 hp, 3200 lb 17" wheels, 3 liter L6. ( get the idea)..... but now I have 6 gears instead of 5, traction control and glass sunroof instead of metal, and my car was $10,000 LESS then a 1995 M3, adjusted for inflation, thats like 15k
Plus, for the next 4 years BMW performs ALL the maintenance, not to mention 0.9% financing...
The 1 series is marketed as the spiritual successor to the 2002, but really that niche was fullfilled in 1991 for one year only with the e30 318is at only 2600 pounds, no the new 128i is the successor to the original E36 M3, and the 135i will spank a E46 M3 everywhere on the street except at a real track day.
But I digress, the POINT is in 1995 the M3 was a 150mph super car challenger, ran in comparisons against 911's and such, My 128i with the sport package has the rev limiter raised to reach 150 as well.
The 370z may pull away, but when he runs out of room, or balls to maintain the pace, I'm just 2 seconds behind.
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      02-16-2009, 12:19 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcarchitect View Post
reading the 370 rant.
the 370 is a steller car, and performance compares well to a 135i on paper and in youtube media videos even wins against a 135i.
Its a two seater sports car, more of a poor mans corvette than any sort of practical daily car or status car, nor can you fit a bike in the back like my one series, or my former audi TT also swallow a bike w/ the wheels stacked on top.
370 z has great street cred, and Nissan builds great motors, but not the same image as a BMW.
Comaring it to the 128i in performance it is ahead by a margin, however the 128i DOES cruise comfortably at triple digits.
Lets all remember back to the late 1990's, BMW M3 was also considered a Steller performance car at $40,000, with a 3 liter staight six at 240hp, 17inch wheels, 3200lb curb weight.
I had a 95 M3 myself, and in 2008-9 the 128i is 230 hp, 3200 lb 17" wheels, 3 liter L6. ( get the idea)..... but now I have 6 gears instead of 5, traction control and glass sunroof instead of metal, and my car was $10,000 LESS then a 1995 M3, adjusted for inflation, thats like 15k
Plus, for the next 4 years BMW performs ALL the maintenance, not to mention 0.9% financing...
The 1 series is marketed as the spiritual successor to the 2002, but really that niche was fullfilled in 1991 for one year only with the e30 318is at only 2600 pounds, no the new 128i is the successor to the original E36 M3, and the 135i will spank a E46 M3 everywhere on the street except at a real track day.
But I digress, the POINT is in 1995 the M3 was a 150mph super car challenger, ran in comparisons against 911's and such, My 128i with the sport package has the rev limiter raised to reach 150 as well.
The 370z may pull away, but when he runs out of room, or balls to maintain the pace, I'm just 2 seconds behind.
yo how do u raise the rev limiter?
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      02-16-2009, 12:41 AM   #42
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ECU from the factory is set for 128i to max speed at 130mph unless you have the "sport" option, then the factory ECU is set to allow 150mph. So, I did not do anything this time.
If you don't have a sport suspension, I would watch to see what DINAN comes up with, their ECU mods always seem to "allow the car to achieve its natural top speed."... acording to their website.
good luck
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      02-16-2009, 01:58 AM   #43
Zinister
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcarchitect View Post
i like the interior photo comparison!
I'm a 42 friggen year old architect with a masters degree.
I'm not taking my clients/boss/employees/ dateable women to lunch in a F@#$% Mitsubishi lancer with a rental car box interior.

When I wanna go really fast thats what my italian 1000cc v twin motorcycle is all about.
When the media compares two cars, how many points do they give to "status"????
Also, new cars all smell look and feel new, when they are new. The real test is what you still have after the payments end.
my other car is a pristine 1991 318is.
While noted than Honda builds quality cars also; what else except BMW and M/B can you find from 1991 that would still be bolted together in 2009 well enough to show an indicated 130 mph on any given day. (don't even try to mention American mustangs and camero's, in 91 they were crap and are all crushed now anyway)
Have you seen the condition of any 1991 Mitsubishi's recently?
end of comparison.
I win.
My 91 Z did that very well even when it was stock and it is 18 years old. Now it gets to that speed even faster. Apples to Oranges of course.
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      02-16-2009, 08:34 AM   #44
italiantank26
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2008 BMW 128i  [0.00]
I don't have a sports package on my car, and I've gone over 130, I've done it well over a few times, so I'm positive that I don't have a rev limiter at 130 but I'm also positive I don't have a sports package lol. My car was a demo car though, and it did have premium package if that helps?
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