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      10-24-2011, 03:22 AM   #1
Imo135
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1M Power vs 135i N54

Hi

If the 1M and the 135i N54 are identical engines and exhaust (most of it) except for the folll known differences-

1. Rear axle different on the 1M
2. Radiator fan different on the 1m 850w versus 650W

Fuel pump, turbo's,internals, oil cooler, FMIC etc all the same,

why is there so much of a difference in claimed power increases between the 1M and the 135i N54 on a tuned flash?
For example, if you look at what AC Schnitzer claims in respect of the power they produce with a 1M versus a 135I N54 it is substantial, and this applies to other tuners such as ESS as well.

ANyone know why this is or is this just marketing? I would have thought the end result would be the same if these two cars in stock form and are tuned with a stage 1 flash alone?... This shouldnot be much different with an full exhaust set up as well..

ANy thoughts...
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      10-24-2011, 04:14 AM   #2
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      10-24-2011, 04:20 AM   #3
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      10-24-2011, 06:25 AM   #4
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There isn't a big difference power wise post reflash between the two.
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      10-24-2011, 06:41 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imo135 View Post
Hi

If the 1M and the 135i N54 are identical engines and exhaust (most of it) except for the folll known differences-

1. Rear axle different on the 1M
2. Radiator fan different on the 1m 850w versus 650W

Fuel pump, turbo's,internals, oil cooler, FMIC etc all the same,

why is there so much of a difference in claimed power increases between the 1M and the 135i N54 on a tuned flash?
For example, if you look at what AC Schnitzer claims in respect of the power they produce with a 1M versus a 135I N54 it is substantial, and this applies to other tuners such as ESS as well.

ANyone know why this is or is this just marketing? I would have thought the end result would be the same if these two cars in stock form and are tuned with a stage 1 flash alone?... This shouldnot be much different with an full exhaust set up as well..

ANy thoughts...
There is a difference, the turbo's are slightly larger and the internals are built stronger.

Here's a bit on it from another post(take out the spaces): http://www.[Admin Notified].com...563#post197563

If the link isn't working, click quote and get the link info there or you could read this:

Further driving experiences with this car, all I can say is that I really want a 1M...

Also I googled this but didnt find any results, but Jeremy stated that BMW is using the Alpina motor in this car...lower compression, forged internals etc. He said his source in Germany confirmed it and just by looking at the standard tables in the DME, BMW left a LOT of room to move up . Fueling is still the limitation we think, only futher testing will see how far this goes.

Also Alex from Gintani was there, I didnt even realize it was him until my friend informed me later on. Both of them are standup guys, I dont think there is enough good I can say.
Last edited by Matt@Camber-Toe; 09-27-2011 at 06:15 PM.
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Last edited by UsualSuspect; 10-24-2011 at 06:48 AM.. Reason: link edit
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      10-24-2011, 06:44 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UsualSuspect View Post
There is a difference, the turbo's are slightly larger and the internals are built stronger.

Here's a bit on it from another post(take out the spaces): http://www.[Admin Notified].com...563#post197563
BMW part numbers obtained from a dealer indicates the same size turbo's
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      10-24-2011, 06:46 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IGoFast1589 View Post
There isn't a big difference power wise post reflash between the two.
AC Schnitzer says 360hp for the 135i N54 and 395hp for the 1M.... thats a big difference
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      10-24-2011, 08:27 AM   #8
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I thought they were basically the same just a better factory tune on the 1M
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      10-24-2011, 08:56 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UsualSuspect View Post
There is a difference, the turbo's are slightly larger and the internals are built stronger.

Here's a bit on it from another post(take out the spaces): http://www.[Admin Notified].com...563#post197563

If the link isn't working, click quote and get the link info there or you could read this:

Further driving experiences with this car, all I can say is that I really want a 1M...

Also I googled this but didnt find any results, but Jeremy stated that BMW is using the Alpina motor in this car...lower compression, forged internals etc. He said his source in Germany confirmed it and just by looking at the standard tables in the DME, BMW left a LOT of room to move up . Fueling is still the limitation we think, only futher testing will see how far this goes.

Also Alex from Gintani was there, I didnt even realize it was him until my friend informed me later on. Both of them are standup guys, I dont think there is enough good I can say.
Last edited by Matt@Camber-Toe; 09-27-2011 at 06:15 PM.
Thank for the above but I doubt it has an Alpina version engine and it definitely does not have bigger turbos. The 335is which was released a while back has the same engine as the 1m which is the same as the N54 just different software and lighter crank maybe, these cars boost higher the the std n54 of which the std n54 can boost as well..
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      10-24-2011, 09:16 AM   #10
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1M's push more boost from the factory than a 135i (12-13psi compared to 7-8psi respectively), so that is why they make more power in stock form. Tune both, and I guarantee they will output similar power.
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      10-24-2011, 09:36 AM   #11
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      10-24-2011, 01:35 PM   #12
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^^^^LOL!!!
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      10-24-2011, 06:27 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RnmEvo9 View Post
1M's push more boost from the factory than a 135i (12-13psi compared to 7-8psi respectively), so that is why they make more power in stock form. Tune both, and I guarantee they will output similar power.
+1...IMO135....did you not see Yuchi's Dyno runs?
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      10-24-2011, 07:01 PM   #14
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First of all, this exact topic has been discussed a hundred times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imo135 View Post
why is there so much of a difference in claimed power increases between the 1M and the 135i N54 on a tuned flash?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imo135 View Post
AC Schnitzer says 360hp for the 135i N54 and 395hp for the 1M.... thats a big difference
Because it's two different tunes. It's not the "same" tune on two different cars. ACS tuned the 1M slightly more aggressively because of the extra oil cooler and radiator fan. They probably felt that the 1M can deal with the extra heat generated by the more aggressive tune. There are plenty of tunes out there for the N54 that make more power than either the 135i or 1M ACS tune.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imo135 View Post
BMW part numbers obtained from a dealer indicates the same size turbo's
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ianf2002 View Post
1M has same N54 as Z4 35is. Don't think the turbos are different or internals from stock N54, fly wheel and clutch are different.
A while ago, I think someone found out that the clutch and flywheel (and crankshaft and piston rings and a bunch of everything else supposedly "upgraded" for the 1M) are the same parts as on 2010 N54 cars. However, I think some of the parts were upgraded between 2008 and 2010, such as the flywheel, so in a sense it is still "upgraded" from the 2008 N54 cars.
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      10-25-2011, 01:36 AM   #15
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I think I hears somewhere that the inlet manifold was different on the 1M too. TBH an N54 with the BMW PP has the same output as the 1M in the real world. When I had a "Stock" dyno done (with the BMW PP exhaust) I ran 312BHP when I had FMIC and the BMW PP added I ran 346 BHP. That's more than the 1M. Now I have the GIAC map too and rune 400BHP
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      10-25-2011, 03:09 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ken1137 View Post
+1...IMO135....did you not see Yuchi's Dyno runs?
I have not seen Yuchi's dton runs...

Also cannot see JHOOPS2 post.

There seems to lost of speculation regarding what is perhaps upgraded on the 1M but nothing certain.

Basically most tuners I have looked at like ESS, ACS etc state substantially more power to be made on a stock 1M with a flash versus a stock 135i N54 with a flash. I thought the two cars would make similar power as a end result with a stage 1 flash as there seems to minimal difference between the two.The only difference on the cooling is the 850w rad fan vs the 650w rad fan and the clutch/flywheel which cannot make a 40 hp additional gain. The oil cooler (at least our spec vehicles) are the same.

The may very well be some different internals but the power difference shown by various tuners for these vehicles are substantial, thus just wanted to know how come... myabe they just tuning it more agrressivley as they want it to be stronger than the 135i with a tune..
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      10-25-2011, 04:13 AM   #17
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There is no speculation...they are both N54B30 engines...except one has the ppk and a more aggressive tune from the factory...
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      10-25-2011, 05:11 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ianf2002 View Post
Also has "Powered by ///M' plastic cover on top of the N54, so this makes it much better
That easily adds 50 WHP.


Ohh and also a clarification. The 1M has 30 HP and Tq more than a 135.

Dont include the overboost numbers when comparing the 2. The overboost is a 10 second cast or whatever with a long cooldown of a few hours I think (to put in Warcraft terms.

So in reality the difference of the tune is 30...not 70 gagillion as you 1M boys like to think.
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      10-25-2011, 05:54 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenVert View Post
That easily adds 50 WHP.


Ohh and also a clarification. The 1M has 30 HP and Tq more than a 135.

Dont include the overboost numbers when comparing the 2. The overboost is a 10 second cast or whatever with a long cooldown of a few hours I think (to put in Warcraft terms.

So in reality the difference of the tune is 30...not 70 gagillion as you 1M boys like to think.
Thats right.

Just remember I am comparring a stage 1 135i vs a stage 1 1M (both std excpet for tune) not stock vs stock. I am looking at the end result of the two cars tune.
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      10-25-2011, 09:07 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imo135 View Post
Thats right.

Just remember I am comparring a stage 1 135i vs a stage 1 1M (both std excpet for tune) not stock vs stock. I am looking at the end result of the two cars tune.
define "stage 1"

Are you talking something like a jb+ that nets like 30-40 hp? Well ofcourse they cant have that power out of a "stage 1" 1M.

Try comparing JB4 or Procede numbers to these "stage 1" 1M. Youll se that theyre both the same at about 380ish hp.
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      10-25-2011, 10:50 AM   #21
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overboost isn't on a 1hr CD. More like a few second.
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      02-16-2012, 06:24 AM   #22
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