Stick or auto tranny?

[morgie2]

Originally Posted by scorcherjf

Sorry if this has been asked before but...

I'm interested in a manual 135i but none of the dealerships around here have a manual ANYTHING for me to look at/try besides M3's and the occasional 3-series. I currently have an 2003 330xi manual, but the throw is quite far and I was wondering if the 135i's manual would be shorter? The salesmen look at me funny whenever I ask anything about the manual gearbox but I guess it's just really important to me...

Try BMW of Stratham N.H. (Ira)

[Qube]

Owning a manual really has nothing to do with more control and less brake dust. Those are pleasant side effects. The whole point is a much more carnal feel in shifting. This is something NO paddle can ever give. Either you have it, or you don't. There's no inbetween shiftronic dual-clutch or whatever nonsense. End discussion.

The only reason my 5 is a step is because I want to relax and nap. Ok, maybe not nap while driving. Nevermind that a 6MT in a 5 still feels wallowly, unlike the 1.

[x97Melbourne]

Originally Posted by uofmtiger

Not really true, the paddles, especially in DS (manual) mode, give you a direct link to the engine.

I believe you are incorrect. The automatic, in any mode, whether it be in full auto/Sport paddles/manual mode still has a torque converter. The torque converter creates lag (minimal) and decreases HP to the rear wheels. The torque converter itself USES horsepower. I am not an expert, and my termonology may not be correct, but you get the idea.

Although the "step" automatic is a great transmision, it does not provide a direct link between your right foot and the full potential of the engine. :biggrin:

[uofmtiger]

Originally Posted by x97Melbourne

I believe you are incorrect. The automatic, in any mode, whether it be in full auto/Sport paddles/manual mode still has a torque converter. The torque converter creates lag (minimal) and decreases HP to the rear wheels. The torque converter itself USES horsepower. I am not an expert, and my termonology may not be correct, but you get the idea.

Although the "step" automatic is a great transmision, it does not provide a direct link between your right foot and the full potential of the engine. :biggrin:

I was referring to the manual gear selections available via the DS manual mode. I did not mean to imply that the automatic used a clutch to do so. You also have to go to the next gear in a sequential fashion, so there is no way to jump directly from 5th to 3rd (as an example).

In any event, I prefer the auto for my situation. If it was a weekend vehicle or my daily commute consisted of uncrowded, twisty moutain roads with no cops, I would have gotten the manual. Although, in that situation, I may have gotten a 128i, just so I could spend more time rolling through the gears.

[bruce.augenstein@comcast.]

Not surprisingly, there's been a tremendous amount of response on this topic, which is basically a religious one... :smile:

That said, I don't believe anyone has directly addressed the very real fact that automatics are absolutely quicker and more responsive in everyday driving than sticks.

As an aside, the Step in the 135i seems to be arguably quicker in a race as well (and based on what I have seen in the 335i, not just in a drag race), but that's more of a turbo preload plus powershift issue in a drag race, plus exact rev matching on a road course.

Autos are a bunch quicker in everyday driving because the auto powershifts all the time, and the torque converter masks the rotational inertia issue that forces stick drivers to pause between shifts, else they get all that head-bobbing from passengers.

Think about it. In your stick car, you begin to taper off on the gas for a second or more before the shift, then you push in the clutch and wait for the engine speed to drop to the point where clutch engagement won't result in a lurch, and then you smoothly reapply the gas until you're back on track, acceleration-wise. The entire process will take at least a couple of seconds.

Contrast that with the auto, where you stay on the gas and the shift process takes perhaps a half-second at most, the shift-shock absorbed by the torque converter.

Out on the road, a quick throttle depression (of whatever magnitude) dictates that the Step will downshift almost instantly - much more quickly than a manual downshift, regardless of driver skill.

I'm not negating all the other points made by either side in this religious issue, but the fact is, if you choose the stick, you'll be piloting a slower, less-responsive car in everyday driving.

That said, I'm a confirmed die-hard for a good stick car, but the widening everyday performance gap means that sooner or later I'm going to have to join the dark side.

Bruce

[atr_hugo]

Bruce, welcome aboard!

There are two issues with this automatic that are negatives on the track. One is it will downshift automatically at WOT (regardless of what you have asked for via the paddles) and two, it will automatically upshift at the rev-limit (a non-no especially in AutoX).

The ZF automatic is a good gearbox with a neglibile weight penalty over the manual and, as you and others have noted, is the tranny of choice for drag racing. But if I had to have an automatic tranny for road racing or autocrossing I'd hold out for a DSG (or a software fix for the problems noted above ; -).

[bruce.augenstein@comcast.]

Originally Posted by atr_hugo

Bruce, welcome aboard!

There are two issues with this automatic that are negatives on the track. One is it will downshift automatically at WOT (regardless of what you have asked for via the paddles) and two, it will automatically upshift at the rev-limit (a non-no especially in AutoX).

The ZF automatic is a good gearbox with a neglibile weight penalty over the manual and, as you and others have noted, is the tranny of choice for drag racing. But if I had to have an automatic tranny for road racing or autocrossing I'd hold out for a DSG (or a software fix for the problems noted above ; -).

Thanks for the welcome. I've gotten interested after doing back-to-back tests of the M3 and a 128i (documented here), which was a surprising eye-opener for me. Suffice it to say that the 128i impressed me even more than the M3 did. Haven't been able to get into a 135i stick yet, though.

In regard to the on-track behavior of the Step, I'd personally like to see it bounce off the rev limiter for as long as I'd like, but don't have a problem with it downshifting at WOT. I've always taught my track day students to be in the correct gear as they enter a corner, so a downshift isn't in the picture at that point. Some corners require an upshift, though, so if it's very abrupt, some throttle feathering may be an additional complication in that particular corner. I hasten to add that I've not coached either a 335 or 135 Step driver, so can't comment on that last point with real authority.

Don't have any autocross experience, and that may be different.

Bruce

[audi2bmw1]

having driven the audi DSG on a race track and pretty much race tracking the 135i with the paddle shifters both are great trannies...altough the audi DSG is simply better...response is better and the transition is smoother...but the BMW one is better than most other companies that have auto tiptronic trannys like lexus and the other audis that dont have DSG i havnt driven the EVO dual clutch setup but heard thats a nice one too...

[trfortin69]

Originally Posted by Redline

another reason I would pick stick is so gf or wife can't drive it.

dido, my wife wants me go bigger and an automatic (she wants the 5 series), f - that, I'm getting 135i stick, that way she'll never drive it.

[x97Melbourne]

Originally Posted by trfortin

dido, my wife wants me go bigger and an automatic (she wants the 5 series), f - that, I'm getting 135i stick, that way she'll never drive it.

love it.

why is it that many women can't drive a stick??
...this is completely off topic, but ive found women who can drive a stick are MUCH better at....you know what......seriously.
any comments? anyone else found this???

[Addict...Nah Im A Junkie!]

My 58 year old mother has driven a manual car in nyc for 41 years. Man up ladies. Get the manual, if your health prevents you from driving a manual, it is probably dangerous for you to have a car with this much power (the air force would not let you operate a fighter plane, this is one for the road), your physical abilities have been limited, and have unfortunately limited you (not to discriminate). If there is traffic, enjoy the fact that you can easily rev your engine at the moron that just cut you off. (If this is your reasoning, be honest, say your lazy, traffic is the same either way, and more fun with a manual, remember NYC here, I know traffic) Personally, I think they should eliminate the automatic transmission completely from the bmw line up so that way most of the yuppie leftovers and sorority sisters that drive them as status symbols (and can't drive for sh*t) will go buy something else and make our lives and reputations better (Probably something big so that when they hit us their little soccer players will be safe, while we are under the monstrosity they call and SUV). Ive driven an m roadster in nyc for a bunch of years (and other manuals), they only problem in traffic is all the people who ask me about the car while my top is down. If you can't drive one, learn, go to a driving school (BMW CCA is the best!!!), rent a car, steal a car (remember to return to original location with all parts intact, if anything is broken leave cash.) If none of the above options are available, buy a honda, I hear girls say that their new hondas look like a bmw. They make an auto that wont break at least, and you'll have the perfect drive-train for the not so perfect transmission, FRONT WHEEL DRIVE. I actually figured out how to fix this in physics class the other day. Drive the car backwards. Maybe then it'll handle like a bmw? Can you tell the waiting is making me mad? Where's my damn car already!?!?!?!?!?

[imported_Noob]

what is this pattle thing on autos?

[imported_Noob]

Originally Posted by mvaccaro

paddle shifters...it's like a lever attached to the steering wheel that lets you shift up and down without having to take off any hand from the steering wheel

http://videos.howstuffworks.com/webr...ters-video.htm

I am a very traditional guy. Can I get a 1 series or any bmw in automatic and just leave it in that gear? I dont wanna mess w/ that. I thought this was the gas pedal, which seems off the floor, unlike most cars?

Gosh i must be getting old.

Thanks

[MOCKBA]

Unfortunately it is hard to find a car with stick in dealer’s lot. Majority of people do not have right hands and prefer to pay money to do not use brain and hands. I will better ride a horse than ever get a car with auto.

[marsgirl73]

Originally Posted by Addict...Nah Im A Junkie!

My 58 year old mother has driven a manual car in nyc for 41 years. Man up ladies. Get the manual, if your health prevents you from driving a manual, it is probably dangerous for you to have a car with this much power (the air force would not let you operate a fighter plane, this is one for the road), your physical abilities have been limited, and have unfortunately limited you (not to discriminate). If there is traffic, enjoy the fact that you can easily rev your engine at the moron that just cut you off. (If this is your reasoning, be honest, say your lazy, traffic is the same either way, and more fun with a manual, remember NYC here, I know traffic) Personally, I think they should eliminate the automatic transmission completely from the bmw line up so that way most of the yuppie leftovers and sorority sisters that drive them as status symbols (and can't drive for sh*t) will go buy something else and make our lives and reputations better (Probably something big so that when they hit us their little soccer players will be safe, while we are under the monstrosity they call and SUV). Ive driven an m roadster in nyc for a bunch of years (and other manuals), they only problem in traffic is all the people who ask me about the car while my top is down. If you can't drive one, learn, go to a driving school (BMW CCA is the best!!!), rent a car, steal a car (remember to return to original location with all parts intact, if anything is broken leave cash.) If none of the above options are available, buy a honda, I hear girls say that their new hondas look like a bmw. They make an auto that wont break at least, and you'll have the perfect drive-train for the not so perfect transmission, FRONT WHEEL DRIVE. I actually figured out how to fix this in physics class the other day. Drive the car backwards. Maybe then it'll handle like a b

Well, I'll "man" up...I've never, ever driven an automatic except for rental cars...and I never will. Who says chicks don't drive sticks?

Seriously, though, I get ticked off when I go into a dealership and the CA starts talking to my husband and assume I want an automatic.

[marsgirl73]

assume=assumes

[Addict...Nah Im A Junkie!]

Originally Posted by marsgirl73

Well, I'll "man" up...I've never, ever driven an automatic except for rental cars...and I never will. Who says chicks don't drive sticks?

Seriously, though, I get ticked off when I go into a dealership and the CA starts talking to my husband and assume I want an automatic.

I've been shopping for a car for my mother lately and it's funny because they always assume she wants an auto, and then seem rather amazed when we say we'll only look at cars that come with a stick!!! sheesh

[Dave]

looks like we get the last laugh...
Auto owners ftw!

Since I have auto I have the Quaife Automatic Torque Biasing Helical LSD Differential...

and yes i checked!
Manual Owners have a welded diff..

but you can buy it for 1450$ now 8 )


http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21393

[Redbeemer]

Although the 135 automatics seem to generally be faster at the dragstrip, when I drove the auto before I ordered mine, it felt slow compared to my 6 speed manual. I had a similar experience years ago when I drove two Corvettes back to back. The automatic felt like another Chevrolet, but the manual felt like a sports car. The only reason I would buy an automatic is if I were planning on spending some serious time at the drags or if I became physically unable to drive the stick. I save $1,000 and have more fun at the same time!

[hubs]

I have the Auto with paddles because apparently there were no Sedona Red Convertibles with a Manual Transmission on the West Coast or Midwest. So I got the Auto. After 10 years with a stick, it does take some getting used to.

[Notion-Za]

The DS mode on the auto's are really nice! when i got the chance to drive one, it holds the revs and keeps you in boost (above 1500rpm or so) Its nice and the tranny is quite quick in manual! but i still prefer a stick!

Had a situation today though. Pre sport training at my school has started and while doing an agility exercise i twisted my ankle quite badly! The drive home from there was really painful! this was the first time i wished i had an auto! It really depends on your situation! if there are no physical problems or you dont mind playing with the gearbox in traffic then go for the stick!

[Kevin The Clean 1]

Originally Posted by izzodesh

looks like we get the last laugh...
Auto owners ftw!

Since I have auto I have the Quaife Automatic Torque Biasing Helical LSD Differential...

and yes i checked!
Manual Owners have a welded diff..

but you can buy it for 1450$ now 8 )


http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21393

Very nice find. This may seal the deal for the order I will probably be placing on my 135i coupe tomorrow... ! :w00t: