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      07-10-2010, 02:49 PM   #67
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      07-10-2010, 03:16 PM   #68
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      07-10-2010, 04:00 PM   #69
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      07-10-2010, 04:06 PM   #70
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Ok I get that it's turbocharged but if ford can make a 5L V8 turn at 7k safely why can't BMW do better with 2 fewer litres of displacement and two fewer cylinders?
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      07-10-2010, 04:52 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenVert View Post
Ok I get that it's turbocharged but if ford can make a 5L V8 turn at 7k safely why can't BMW do better with 2 fewer litres of displacement and two fewer cylinders?
Funny, there's a story on Autoblog about the 25th anniversary of the E30 M3, wanna guess what its redline was? Hint, it rhymes with eleven, but is actually four less.
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      07-10-2010, 05:05 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Funny, there's a story on Autoblog about the 25th anniversary of the E30 M3, wanna guess what its redline was? Hint, it rhymes with eleven, but is actually four less.
I'm not talking about a 30 year old motor though. I'm talking present design...we can do better! Also the E30 had larger pistons than a 3L six...so again, if we could do it 30 years ago why can't we do it now?
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      07-10-2010, 05:10 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by larryn View Post
You have far far better eyes than I have then, to "clearly" see the tire size. I'm running a quality 24" monitor, and can't make that out, even zoomed in. Other markings are clear, but not tire size.

I knew that may be a diff cooling fin, like on the E36/4 M Coupe & Roadster, but was asking if it was the same on the E9x M3. Thanks though!


Edit: I take it back, the fronts are clear 245/35/19.. I was thinking another area was the tire size, that I just couldn't make out. Rears appear to have smudges around XXX/35/ ZR19...
Looks like 265/35/zr19 rears to me.
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      07-10-2010, 05:13 PM   #74
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Thanks, southlight.
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      07-10-2010, 05:39 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by E82tt6 View Post
One in the first pic looks like an Opel Speedster.

Second: Far left is a RR Phatnom, middle looks like Noble, almost positive right is an early 60s Ferrari, but can't remember which one. 410?
Two Ferrari's, the Silver looks to be a variant of the 250 Series, Like a California. The second looks to be a 365 Daytona
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      07-10-2010, 06:13 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenVert View Post
I'm not talking about a 30 year old motor though. I'm talking present design...we can do better! Also the E30 had larger pistons than a 3L six...so again, if we could do it 30 years ago why can't we do it now?
Think about it, with a turbocharger you can't have both low end power and big top end power. You either have a small turbo that spins up quickly but runs out of breath when the engine is forcing exhaust gasses into it at 6 or 7 thousand revs or you have a big turbo that takes a long time to spool up, can't provide much low end power but starts to hit its stride at high RPMs. Do you really want an M car to drive like a big turbo Supra or RSX?

The reason it doesn't rev higher than 7,000 is because it doesn't need to, a turbocharged engine is designed to be used mainly in its midrange, in fact there are almost no turbo engines I can think of that need to be taken to their redline to offer maximum performance.
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      07-10-2010, 06:19 PM   #77
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^you can have a bi turbo arraingment where you have a small turbo and a large turbo. Is it really to hard to ask for a large useable rev range? Torque at 1300 rpm doesn't iteresting me. But I feel like I have to shift so early that that's where I end up
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      07-10-2010, 07:19 PM   #78
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really impressive... my e46 is probably going bye-bye for this!
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      07-10-2010, 08:48 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenVert View Post
^you can have a bi turbo arraingment where you have a small turbo and a large turbo. Is it really to hard to ask for a large useable rev range? Torque at 1300 rpm doesn't iteresting me. But I feel like I have to shift so early that that's where I end up
Like the 959 and other 911 Turbo variants?
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      07-10-2010, 08:51 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Remonster View Post
Think about it, with a turbocharger you can't have both low end power and big top end power. You either have a small turbo that spins up quickly but runs out of breath when the engine is forcing exhaust gasses into it at 6 or 7 thousand revs or you have a big turbo that takes a long time to spool up, can't provide much low end power but starts to hit its stride at high RPMs. Do you really want an M car to drive like a big turbo Supra or RSX?

The reason it doesn't rev higher than 7,000 is because it doesn't need to, a turbocharged engine is designed to be used mainly in its midrange, in fact there are almost no turbo engines I can think of that need to be taken to their redline to offer maximum performance.




Flat, broad torque curve on both these.

S65:

S54:

Definitely possible to have a flat torque curve on a properly sized turbo, at least from 3k to redline. You can have usable torque at 2.5k with a reasonably sized turbo.
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      07-10-2010, 09:07 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by IS3andME View Post
Like the 959 and other 911 Turbo variants?
I think the 959 was the only 911 Turbo variant to use sequential turbos. That was Porsche's first Twin-Turbo 911 for the street and they abandoned that approach, since using 2 identical turbos in parallel proved to work much better. All factory 911 Turbos since have used 2 identical parallel turbochargers (993, 996, and 997).
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      07-10-2010, 09:16 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Remonster View Post
Think about it, with a turbocharger you can't have both low end power and big top end power. You either have a small turbo that spins up quickly but runs out of breath when the engine is forcing exhaust gasses into it at 6 or 7 thousand revs or you have a big turbo that takes a long time to spool up, can't provide much low end power but starts to hit its stride at high RPMs. Do you really want an M car to drive like a big turbo Supra or RSX?

The reason it doesn't rev higher than 7,000 is because it doesn't need to, a turbocharged engine is designed to be used mainly in its midrange, in fact there are almost no turbo engines I can think of that need to be taken to their redline to offer maximum performance.
M12C - but that car is in a different league and we still don't have full specs. Red line at 8.5k.
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      07-10-2010, 09:43 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by grant View Post
I think the 959 was the only 911 Turbo variant to use sequential turbos. That was Porsche's first Twin-Turbo 911 for the street and they abandoned that approach, since using 2 identical turbos in parallel proved to work much better. All factory 911 Turbos since have used 2 identical parallel turbochargers (993, 996, and 997).
Yup, parallel on the new ones. They have plenty of usable power at 2.5k, and RIP from 3.5k to redline. Virtually 0 lag about 3.5. Reminds me a lot of the S65 actually, just about 50% more power at most points.
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      07-11-2010, 12:30 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E82tt6 View Post
Yup, parallel on the new ones. They have plenty of usable power at 2.5k, and RIP from 3.5k to redline. Virtually 0 lag about 3.5. Reminds me a lot of the S65 actually, just about 50% more power at most points.
Concur.
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      07-11-2010, 01:17 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by Marioalex24 View Post
Loving this car. Im hoping they dont leave the stock hood from the 135i. it would be cool if they add a little scoop like the m3, but i thought it because that an m3 mark. As the m6, m5, or x6, x5m dont have major modifications on there hood, but just the bumpers, fenders, and side skirts.
It's called a dome.
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      07-11-2010, 03:01 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grant View Post
I think the 959 was the only 911 Turbo variant to use sequential turbos. That was Porsche's first Twin-Turbo 911 for the street and they abandoned that approach, since using 2 identical turbos in parallel proved to work much better. All factory 911 Turbos since have used 2 identical parallel turbochargers (993, 996, and 997).
Thanks, I figured the 959 was the only one that used the shotgun, small snail, large snail set up. Wasn't there another company that did that as well? Odd, I have 0-60 Magazine and I am looking at a Rauh Welt 993 Widebody, what at first appears to be a Turbo, but it has one huge Turbo, and I'm like the "the 993 had Twin Turbos...", so this must be a Carrera with a widebody shell on it.

What is funny, is to think how people will hook up our present BMWs in the future. Will we see E39 M5 CSLs, E82 1Ms with 600 hp and weigh 2,500 pounds?
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      07-11-2010, 12:06 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by IS3andME View Post
Thanks, I figured the 959 was the only one that used the shotgun, small snail, large snail set up. Wasn't there another company that did that as well?
Yeah, the Mazda RX-7 and Toyota Supra both tried sequential turbos and it's a common aftermarket mod to replace the factory sequential setup with a single larger turbo.
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      07-11-2010, 12:42 PM   #88
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I just found out that my dads b-stock prepared 70 302 stang reved to 8500 from the factory and that his 1972 440 Chrysler redlined at 6800 before he balanced and bluprinted it. Again common BMW we could do it 40 years ago and we can't do better now with better materials/design?
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