Camber can't get any more positive than -2.9?

[jsciam]

I recently installed the popular Koni/Eibach lowering spring and shock kit, after reading a lot of great reviews on here.

Unfortunately, after installing myself and getting an alignment, the shop said they cannot make the rear camber any more positive than -2.9. I then took it to a different bmw indy shop in the area, and they said the same thing.

The car is extremely "squirrely" in the rear and I now have more rear camber than front. What could be the issue? Worn bushings? All bushings look adequate, and I torqued down everything to spec that I am aware.

Anyone have any idea?

Package I bought: https://www.bimmerworld.com/Suspensi...xoC0PsQAvD_BwE

[dtla1]

Hmmm, first thought is maybe incorrect top mount configuration?
Is it equal on both sides? What is the range, -2.9--3.X?

[jsciam]

Originally Posted by dtla1

Hmmm, first thought is maybe incorrect top mount configuration?
Is it equal on both sides? What is the range, -2.9--3.X?

Not sure the range of how far negative it could've gotten, both shops said the most positive it could be is -2.89 on left and -2.87 on right.

[dtla1]

Did you transfer over your bump stops?

[jsciam]

Originally Posted by dtla1

Did you transfer over your bump stops?

I bought shorter bumpstops per a couple threads on here from the Z4M or E36 I believe.

[ShocknAwe]

More important, what's your TOE.

All bolts tightened at ride height?

Pics. You have more than 3* negative in the rear?

[jsciam]

Originally Posted by ShocknAwe

More important, what's your TOE.

All bolts tightened at ride height?

Pics. You have more than 3* negative in the rear?

Looks like my memory was a little off, sheet says ~ -2.65 on both ends. 0.17 toe.

[jsciam]

Do I plainly just need adjustable rear camber and toe arms?

[iminhell1]

Originally Posted by jsciam

Do I plainly just need adjustable rear camber and toe arms?

Being it's even, I'd say yes ... if you don't like or have a use for the negative camber.
Problem might be though that once you put them in Toe is going to increase and the whole thing will get worse. So there's a third arm that needs to be adjustable also.


And based on https://www.1addicts.com/forums/show...53&postcount=9
and the advertised drop, the camber looks to be correct. So nothing is bent or out of spec in the arms, etc. It's simply camber gain from the drop.

[jsciam]

Originally Posted by iminhell1

Being it's even, I'd say yes ... if you don't like or have a use for the negative camber.
Problem might be though that once you put them in Toe is going to increase and the whole thing will get worse. So there's a third arm that needs to be adjustable also.


And based on https://www.1addicts.com/forums/show...53&postcount=9
and the advertised drop, the camber looks to be correct. So nothing is bent or out of spec in the arms, etc. It's simply camber gain from the drop.

Thank you, I appreciate the helpful link. I'm looking at kits right now, but having a hard time finding anything that still has rubber bushings.

I'm shocked that out of the multiple positive reviews I found, that no one mentioned this camber issue. How can my camber be -.8 off from what other people are getting?

I'm considering throwing the old rear springs in and seeing how bad it looks with the lowering springs in the front, rather than pay $600 for arms.

[dtla1]

Originally Posted by jsciam

Looks like my memory was a little off, sheet says ~ -2.65 on both ends. 0.17 toe.

Originally Posted by ShocknAwe

More important, what's your TOE.

All bolts tightened at ride height?

Pics. You have more than 3* negative in the rear?

Just to make sure, did you tighten everything at ride height?
My car looks as low as yours, and I have I think -1.4* rear camber.

[jsciam]

Originally Posted by dtla1

Just to make sure, did you tighten everything at ride height?
My car looks as low as yours, and I have I think -1.4* rear camber.

Thanks for the comment, I notice you're also in the bay area. Right on.

I'm having a hard time understanding the question - I can only tighten the arms/shocks etc while the wheel is off the car and it is on jack stands, so how would I tighten everything at "ride height" if it is in the air? I must be missing something, apologies for that.

[dtla1]

Originally Posted by jsciam

Thanks for the comment, I notice you're also in the bay area. Right on.

I'm having a hard time understanding the question - I can only tighten the arms/shocks etc while the wheel is off the car and it is on jack stands, so how would I tighten everything at "ride height" if it is in the air? I must be missing something, apologies for that.

The way I've done it (but be very careful!!!!), with the wheel still off, and everything mostly loose still,car on jack stands, jack corner up from the rotor using a block of wood. Only need to jack up until you can see weight is coming off of jack stand. It can be sketchy. I think most shops just put it on a drive on/4 post lift to tighten everything down.

Basically you want the suspension to be compressed before tightening stuff down because some of the bushings act as extra spring tension.

[iminhell1]

You can snug things and then set the rear on ramps or blocks and TQ things down.
All it really changes is bushing windup, not actual alignment specs.

[jsciam]

Originally Posted by dtla1

The way I've done it (but be very careful!!!!), with the wheel still off, and everything mostly loose still,car on jack stands, jack corner up from the rotor using a block of wood. Only need to jack up until you can see weight is coming off of jack stand. It can be sketchy. I think most shops just put it on a drive on/4 post lift to tighten everything down.

Basically you want the suspension to be compressed before tightening stuff down because some of the bushings act as extra spring tension.

This makes a lot of sense from what I've been reading the last 30 minutes on the forum. I did torque everything down while it was in the air. I'm going to jack it up, loosen everything in the rear, then put on ramps and sneak in and torque everything down, then go purchase another alignment to see if that worked. I think this is my best option?

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by jsciam

This makes a lot of sense from what I've been reading the last 30 minutes on the forum. I did torque everything down while it was in the air. I'm going to jack it up, loosen everything in the rear, then put on ramps and sneak in and torque everything down, then go purchase another alignment to see if that worked. I think this is my best option?

To do rear shocks/springs, you only have to unbolt the lower camber arms. The outer bolt is in a bearing, so no windup there. The shock does not attach to a standard style bushing, so no windup there. The camber adjuster bolt would have been loosened when they did the alignment, so windup would have been eliminated. So, I don't think you loosening it off and retightening at ride height will make a difference. Honestly, if it was bushing windup, it will make it worse and windup artificially raises the ride height, so it will drop when relieved.

I think I do know what the problem is though. On the eccentric bolts for camber, you have to make sure the eccentric washer is installed in the same direction as the eccentric on the head of the bolt. I bet you have it opposite. It can be installed upside down, effectively making the camber adjuster a straight bolt that won't really adjust anything.

[jsciam]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

To do rear shocks/springs, you only have to unbolt the lower camber arms. The outer bolt is in a bearing, so no windup there. The shock does not attach to a standard style bushing, so no windup there. The camber adjuster bolt would have been loosened when they did the alignment, so windup would have been eliminated. So, I don't think you loosening it off and retightening at ride height will make a difference. Honestly, if it was bushing windup, it will make it worse and windup artificially raises the ride height, so it will drop when relieved.

I think I do know what the problem is though. On the eccentric bolts for camber, you have to make sure the eccentric washer is installed in the same direction as the eccentric on the head of the bolt. I bet you have it opposite. It can be installed upside down, effectively making the camber adjuster a straight bolt that won't really adjust anything.

Thank you for the comment, so I have the washer facing the wrong direction?

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by jsciam

Thank you for the comment, so I have the washer facing the wrong direction?

Yes, that is exactly what I am referring too. Make sure both parts stick out in the same direction. That would be my first guess. Have seen it a couple of times while doing alignments.

[jsciam]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

Yes, that is exactly what I am referring too. Make sure both parts stick out in the same direction. That would be my first guess. Have seen it a couple of times while doing alignments.

Got it.

This is my left side:


This is my right side:


Can you tell by these images, or do I need to remove the bolt to check?

[MightyMouseTech]

Hmm, they are installed correct. The left side still has considerable adjustment left before it is maxed out. The right side is maxed out on the nut side, but there is still adjustment left on the head side. Looks like the eccentric washer is loose on the bolt. I would say replace the eccentric bolt, washer and nut on both sides and have it aligned again. They should be able to reduce the camber still. By the look of it, you will only gain a little on the right by doing that, but a little should help when you have that much camber. Although surprised by the amount of difference in the adjusters left to right, there may be something else going on with the right side, play in the bushing or a wrong bolt in the ball joint possibly?

[jsciam]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

Hmm, they are installed correct. The left side still has considerable adjustment left before it is maxed out. The right side is maxed out on the nut side, but there is still adjustment left on the head side. Looks like the eccentric washer is loose on the bolt. I would say replace the eccentric bolt, washer and nut on both sides and have it aligned again. They should be able to reduce the camber still. By the look of it, you will only gain a little on the right by doing that, but a little should help when you have that much camber. Although surprised by the amount of difference in the adjusters left to right, there may be something else going on with the right side, play in the bushing or a wrong bolt in the ball joint possibly?

The ball joints look normal to me, couldn't feel any play, bolts look the same. I'm willing to buy $50 of eccentric hardware vs $500 of camber+toe arms. Bummed i'm going to be $500 into alignments though!

This is a strange issue. Two BMW indy shops that I trust around my area have both said everything looks fine and i'm too low. This just can't be the case.

Left:


Right:

[ShocknAwe]

Time for M3 parts!

In seriousness. Everything looks reasonable. Agree with the above replacement of hardware and realignment with trusted alignment tech at one of your indy shops.