Sneak preview of an awesome clutch component we are currently testing

[Stohlen]

Originally Posted by 3002 Tii

What everyone here has to realize is that in addition to the shorter clutch travel, if this pedal is anything like the one I have, it also changes the GEOMETRY, thus changing the LEVERAGE of the pressure applied.

For those who keep saying "I'm not KNOCKING the mod, just saying don't think it'll sell very well"... no offense but last I checked this section of the forum isn't Marketing 101 or Sales Demand Forecasting Techniques nor did HPA put up a POLL "Do you think we should sell this?"

Whats wrong with the current leverage? Seems perfectly sufficient to me.

And voicing your opinion that you don't think its gonna sell well is perfectly acceptable. Most companies would want that as its market research. I don't think it will sell well, and by saying that i'm trying to help HP save some money based on my opinion. If enough people share the same opinion that statement becomes valuable. I'm just saying I don't see enough improvement in this part to be justified on anything but a dedicated race car. And even then it might not be necessary, rather just nice to have. This isn't the kind of part that would really increase lap times... I never depress the clutch completely when I shift, i just learned to stop a certain point and consistently do that, so I can't say that extra leverage and throw distance would really help for me.

[flinchy]

Originally Posted by 3002 Tii

Same could be said about any mod. I highly doubt when the n54 first rolled off from factory in 2007 customers were complaining about the lack of power or torque but eventually tunes came out and now folks don't look back.

The best thing about this mod is when you put clutch in, it only goes down the amount it needs to in order to shift. The factory clutch pedal has so much unnecessary travel.

i wouldn't say that at all... when driving totally stock, it's not particularly quick (not helped much by it's long gearing), and you can tell the exhaust is really restrictive (at least i can), especially coming from my N52.

are you telling me, that with the new pedal, it has to be pushed to the floor? even if it is much shorter overall... i'm already WELL used to only pushing to engage point, not sure i'd like having to push it to full travel.. i've personally always found too-long clutches vague, and too-short clutch pedals to be a bit finnicky.

i mean.. yeah it's something you get used to, but something i wouldn't WANT to get used to neccesasrily?

and coming from my car to the 135, the 135 has a lighter pedal force and shorter travel, compared to my 130... yeah i have no idea why, but mine has MUCH more weight to it... so assuming all 135's on stock clutch feel the same, who the hell would want more leverage really?

Originally Posted by HP Autosport

Stock shocks and springs also work well for lots of people.

This Ultimate Pedal is available for those interested in upgrading.

apples to oranges... anyone should be able to tell that stock suspension is really bouncy, cars have tons of body roll.. have trouble putting power down through corners and understeer like crazy.

anyone (especially tuned) can tell the stock RSF bushings are terrible and flex too much

even after wiggling it around a whole bunch, i'm still not going 'man, this clutch pedal could really use a replacement' nor do i even think the travel is 'too long' i just don't press it down to the floor haha


there's a chance i'd buy it if i got the chance to test it out and loved it... but as it stands, it's pretty well the very last mod i'll do to my car, down a list of hundreds :/

[3002 tii]

Originally Posted by Stohlen

Whats wrong with the current leverage? Seems perfectly sufficient to me.

And voicing your opinion that you don't think its gonna sell well is perfectly acceptable. Most companies would want that as its market research. I don't think it will sell well, and by saying that i'm trying to help HP save some money based on my opinion. If enough people share the same opinion that statement becomes valuable. I'm just saying I don't see enough improvement in this part to be justified on anything but a dedicated race car. And even then it might not be necessary, rather just nice to have. This isn't the kind of part that would really increase lap times... I never depress the clutch completely when I shift, i just learned to stop a certain point and consistently do that, so I can't say that extra leverage and throw distance would really help for me.

Seems being the operative word. But this is all conjecture, go DRIVE a car with this mod and then report back findings.

In terms of marketability, yes companies have posted threads gauging interest, this clearly is NOT one of them.

For me, the benefits aren't just on track, even for everyday driving it improves overall driveability. I test drove my buddy's M coupe a few months back because he wanted me to show him how to heel/toe. First thing I noticed was how the engagement point wasn't nearly as precise as mine. I can let the clutch out much FASTER than his and get a smoother/faster shift whereas on his stock pedal, you really have to let it out slower and get the timing right. Mind you his car has the same transmission and clutch components as mine, and he's done CDV + clutch stop + ZHP knob - the same setup I used to have a year or two prior. Shifting gears in my car is just much smoother and effortless. This mod, like any other mod is NOT a MUST by any means, its a luxury, convenience, benefit what have you.

Before Zeckhausen started selling the modified CDV YEARS ago, who knew what it'd do what difference it'd make? If you didn't even know it was an option you'd just *accept* the car's driving characteristic was *normal*. In fact most owners outside of the forums have no clue what it is but they've gotten used to it. Then you take it out and realize what you've missed out on all this time. This is no different in my mind from that mod. Google "GSP clutch mod" (the original manufacturer behind this), you WON'T see one negative review. It's not a popular mod but anyone who's done it swears by it. If you were in NJ I'd even offer you to drive my Z4 (and I never let anyone drive that car lol).

And regarding the comment on race car mod, half the mods on this forum are for race cars which is a joke. Suspension upgrade for "canyon carving" please... front spoilers and splitters providing aero for public roads, limited slip for stop light racing??? Let's not go there else 90% of Bimmerpost enthusiasts are just p0sers.

Originally Posted by flinchy

i wouldn't say that at all... when driving totally stock, it's not particularly quick (not helped much by it's long gearing), and you can tell the exhaust is really restrictive (at least i can), especially coming from my N52.

are you telling me, that with the new pedal, it has to be pushed to the floor? even if it is much shorter overall... i'm already WELL used to only pushing to engage point, not sure i'd like having to push it to full travel.. i've personally always found too-long clutches vague, and too-short clutch pedals to be a bit finnicky.

i mean.. yeah it's something you get used to, but something i wouldn't WANT to get used to neccesasrily?

and coming from my car to the 135, the 135 has a lighter pedal force and shorter travel, compared to my 130... yeah i have no idea why, but mine has MUCH more weight to it... so assuming all 135's on stock clutch feel the same, who the hell would want more leverage really?

There's no reason for the engagement point to differ. I said if the pedal is anything like the one I have, the geometry is different. The connecting point is the same, but the angle of the pedal is wider thus it sits further away from your foot. This equates into shorter travel and quicker shifts.

[flinchy]

Originally Posted by 3002 Tii

There's no reason for the engagement point to differ. I said if the pedal is anything like the one I have, the geometry is different. The connecting point is the same, but the angle of the pedal is wider thus it sits further away from your foot. This equates into shorter travel and quicker shifts.

i wasn't talking engagement point, i meant the overall throw and feel of the clutch


are you saying it's simply effectively already 'partially depressed' to 'just before engage point' in a way?

that doesn't really make sense, as the pedal is a lever that rotates a rod.. it's going to be at 0% rotation with the new pedal

logic dictates that if the new pedal has shorter travel, and clutch engages at say.. 60%.. and the new pedal also sits further away, and 100% is the old say 65%?

yeah.. it HAS to feel completely different?

[Nugget]

Originally Posted by 3002 Tii

I'm new to 1addicts but first thing I noticed is the track and technical sections here are really lacking (as compared to e90 and zpost). The majority of questions revolve around wheel/tire fitment, where to buy KW v1's, etc... but Harold and the crew at HPA are one of the few guys/vendors who actually offers good technical advice.

/end rant

But will this help my wheels fit without rubbing?

[RimasRS]

Anyway so what price will be 300-600$ ? No cheap modes for our cars and some of them just not worth...

[RimasRS]

Originally Posted by Ian///M

$295 as per HPA http://hpashop.com/Ultimate-Clutch-Pedal-UCP.htm

Just ensure that you have the LHD pedal setup and toe in EU. The Pedal on Oz RHD is different unfortunately

Like I mentioned not so important that I would pay 300 bucks. But thanks for pointing...

[Freon]

Originally Posted by 3002 Tii

For those who keep saying "I'm not KNOCKING the mod, just saying don't think it'll sell very well"... no offense but last I checked this section of the forum isn't Marketing 101 or Sales Demand Forecasting Techniques nor did HPA put up a POLL "Do you think we should sell this?"

Welp, I'm not afraid to be critical (in person or on an internet forum), nor am I afraid or intimidated of consequences of speaking up. Vendors or not, I really don't care. If people are that sensitive it can bother them and they can lose sleep over it, but it won't bother me.

If you feel you have to try to deflect rather than confront criticism directly I think you have a weak position. It's a real losing proposition.

Already got more or less banned from the BB forum due to calling out the forum owner for false claims of releasing their flash source code. *shrugs*

[3002 tii]

Originally Posted by flinchy

i wasn't talking engagement point, i meant the overall throw and feel of the clutch


are you saying it's simply effectively already 'partially depressed' to 'just before engage point' in a way?

that doesn't really make sense, as the pedal is a lever that rotates a rod.. it's going to be at 0% rotation with the new pedal

logic dictates that if the new pedal has shorter travel, and clutch engages at say.. 60%.. and the new pedal also sits further away, and 100% is the old say 65%?

yeah.. it HAS to feel completely different?

Honestly I'm not trying to be a d*ck but I don't see how I can make it any more simpler. Yes the pedal is a lever and that connecting point is the same. It's just the angle of the pedal is lower. If it still isn't registering, I'll let HPA or someone else take over. Actually I think I'm done here lol. I have this mod on my track car, but it's great for street and track. Don't believe me, google "GSP clutch mod" and see what others have to say.

Originally Posted by Freon

Welp, I'm not afraid to be critical (in person or on an internet forum), nor am I afraid or intimidated of consequences of speaking up. Vendors or not, I really don't care. If people are that sensitive it can bother them and they can lose sleep over it, but it won't bother me.

If you feel you have to try to deflect rather than confront criticism directly I think you have a weak position. It's a real losing proposition.

Already got more or less banned from the BB forum due to calling out the forum owner for false claims of releasing their flash source code. *shrugs*

LOL and how was I deflecting such that it put me in a weak position?

I find it funny that you feel the need to defend your right to speak. Nobody's running a gestapo here. If you want to be critical of the product that's fine, but if you scroll all the way up and you see this:

> Technical / Specific Topics > 135i Turbo Engine (N54 / N55), Exhaust and Drivetrain Modifications

Don't see how marketing or sales figures has anything to do with what's in italics. I was just merely trying to keep the thread on topic, ie technical. And FYI nobody's losing sleep or at least I'm not. It's just in the 3 weeks I've take ownership of my 135is, I can't believe the amount of noob posts in the technical section here. Sometimes I find myself halfway writing an explanation to a question but I press cancel because the OP could easily find the answer if they spent the 2 seconds searching. And every once in a while when you do get a good technical thread, it gets derailed or cluttered and this seems like it's going down that route. At this rate, I'll probably do the community a favor and stop posting on 1addicts. The track and technical sections are a joke... 1addicts is basically cardomain for 128/135's.

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by 3002 Tii

Honestly I'm not trying to be a d*ck but I don't see how I can make it any more simpler. Yes the pedal is a lever and that connecting point is the same. It's just the angle of the pedal is lower. If it still isn't registering, I'll let HPA or someone else take over. Actually I think I'm done here lol. I have this mod on my track car, but it's great for street and track. Don't believe me, google "GSP clutch mod" and see what others have to say.

That was and still is one of the best clutch mods you can do for the E36/46.

Some of us are happy with just the clutch stop and that is fine. For those who wants the ultimate in clutch feel, performance and pedal position they will purchase this pedal. That said, orders have been placed and tons of reviews will be posted here and on other BMW forums come the end of Oct.

[flinchy]

Originally Posted by 3002 Tii

Honestly I'm not trying to be a d*ck but I don't see how I can make it any more simpler. Yes the pedal is a lever and that connecting point is the same. It's just the angle of the pedal is lower. If it still isn't registering, I'll let HPA or someone else take over. Actually I think I'm done here lol. I have this mod on my track car, but it's great for street and track. Don't believe me, google "GSP clutch mod" and see what others have to say.

do you not understand how a lever works?

if it's reducing overall throw so you're not depressing PAST engagement point, AND the angle is lower

... and you're still saying that, i'm just going to assume you don't know how a clutch pedal, or potentially even a level works

no offense, but what i'm saying is pretty simple...


and i'm going to repeat: I'm SURE IT'S A MASSIVE IMPROVEMENT, I'M 100% SURE IT's A BETTER CLUTCH PEDAL WITH BETTER FEEL ETC.

and.. all i'm saying is it HAS to feel completely different, otherwise this is a waste of money.. lol

and when i quite like the feel of my stock pedal, have no real complaints, and the upgrade is expensive ($50 more than the one the guys put on their E46 M3's :/) it's a hard sell unless someone buys it and i have a try of it - so unless i could give it a try (unlikely, given i don't live in the states), it's down the mod list a way

on that note... RHD>LHD clutch pedals (pedals in general) are the same i assume?

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by flinchy

on that note... RHD>LHD clutch pedals (pedals in general) are the same i assume?

No, LHD and RHD pedals are different.

[flinchy]

Originally Posted by HP Autosport

No, LHD and RHD pedals are different.

hm do you know if it's a massive design difference between them?

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by flinchy

hm do you know if it's a massive design difference between them?

We don't have RHD cars to test and from BMW ETK the part# is different and so is the shape of the pedal.

[flinchy]

Originally Posted by HP Autosport

We don't have RHD cars to test and from BMW ETK the part# is different and so is the shape of the pedal.

mmm fair enough

guess there's no upgrade for me anyway! haha

the part numbers show up on both LHD/RHD, but in a roundabout way appear to only have one that's 'relevant'

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by flinchy

mmm fair enough

guess there's no upgrade for me anyway! haha

the part numbers show up on both LHD/RHD, but in a roundabout way appear to only have one that's 'relevant'

There is only one way to find out!

[litebulb]

The CDV and SSK help with smoother shifts, however I can never find a comfortable distance for my pedals and seat. This looks like it may help and I would love to see the difference, but $295 is quite a bit.

[flinchy]

Originally Posted by HP Autosport

There is only one way to find out!

i do wish i could help one get made, damn continental separation.

[flinchy]

Originally Posted by Ian///M

It should fit RHD, but would just have a square foot-pad rather than our more triangular shaped one.

I may give one a try soon, but just bought the BMS clutch-stop which makes a significant difference

I think that this product is fairly priced for a low volume specialised product (it isn't a rip off like the ER charge-pipe). We shouldn't whinge when a vendor makes an effort to develop something good for our cars.

the pedal's lever not extremely different shaped?

i have nice pedals though (those orange and black ones), so having them possibly not fit would suck ..

.. if you do end up trying it, and it's all sweet, i'd be extremely interested to hear


agreed on the price for low volume bit.

[dcaron9999]

I can feal an annoying sticking in my clutch pedal when Im on it partway, and let off complete with no foot pressure on it. It seems that the "sticking" is from the pedal mechanism when initially pressed, in the first inch of travel. Very un-BMW if you ask me.

It will take at least 4 visits at the dealer to solve the issue. First two visits, they replaced the small oil cylinder sitting behind the pedal, with no resolve. They have now ordered a new pedal mechanism and cylinder, and will be replacing both as a precaution.

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by dcaron9999

I can feal an annoying sticking in my clutch pedal when Im on it partway, and let off complete with no foot pressure on it. It seems that the "sticking" is from the pedal mechanism when initially pressed, in the first inch of travel. Very un-BMW if you ask me.

It will take at least 4 visits at the dealer to solve the issue. First two visits, they replaced the small oil cylinder sitting behind the pedal, with no resolve. They have now ordered a new pedal mechanism and cylinder, and will be replacing both as a precaution.

When you said the "oil cylinder" are you referring to the clutch master or the over-center spring(it may look like a coil over shock).

[dcaron9999]

Originally Posted by HP Autosport

When you said the "oil cylinder" are you referring to the clutch master or the over-center spring(it may look like a coil over shock).

I only a DYI person, and not a mechanic, but Im referring to the tiny cyclinder, attached to the top of pedal, inside the car, in the foot well area. Seems to be part of the hydraulic circuit.

Edit: looked it up on REALOEM, and the cylinder is called the "Input cylinder clutch" Part #21526773670