Coilovers and wheel clearance

[Cpt_Rum-bo]

This is an excellent thread as it helps ease the decision what's the next step suspension wise. I've already done the 261M square conversion with 255 Federals RS-R.

[KRyn]

What do people think about the following comment made by BerkTechnology in another thread...

"If you add more camber via camber plates and a slight fender roll and you will not rub. We are running on 18x8.5 +38 plus a 5mm spacer and 255/35/18 up front now and we do not rub at all.

So effectively we are running a 18x8.5 +33 on 255/35/18 in the front.

Rears are now at 265/35/18 on a 18x9.5 +58.

ALL STOCK BODY PANELS and zero rubbing!"

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=252526


On a side note, how much easier would it be to fit a 245/35/18 Michelin PSS up front with my mods and rim selection? Lots of guys with Apex Arc-8s are doing this relatively easily? I really wanted to try the Dunlop Direzza ZII Star Spec 255/35/18 in a square setup but I am starting to doubt it will be possible now with the suspension I have purchased. I suppose I could take a saws-all to my fenders?

[DietTab]

Originally Posted by KRyn

Wow, super happy I stumbled upon this thread. I have been contemplating how I could run a square set of 8.5" 264s with 255/35/18s on my car. I had noticed it mentioned in a few threads.

I managed to find a set of DA TC Kline coils with Swift front(450)/rear(700) springs as well as a set of HyperCo fronts. I also have a pair of Vorshlag camber plates, does anyone know how much camber I will be able to get out of these plates? I really want to attempt to squeeze a 255/35/18 upfront like some of you guys are doing. However, I feel that 3 degrees of negative camber is just to much to be running on the streets as my car is daily driven in the summer and sees auto-x duty almost every weekend. Do you think a minor fender roll would make up for running a little less camber?

Since I plan to run the style 264 rears (ET52) in the front would it be more beneficial to pick up a 12mm spacer or stick with a 10mm like it appears everyone else is doing?

I got over 3 degrees with my fixed dinan plates, you will certainly be able to beat that with the vorschlag plates. I did slot the towers as well, however. that was worth almost a degree on its own.

The Michelins are much narrower at the tread then a star spec or RS3, due to the shape/profile of the tire. I think the 17" wheels are a better choice for autox duty due to cost and tire selection but you can make 18s work.

Style 68s are 17x8.5 with a 50 offset, perfect up front with a 12mm spacer.

[KRyn]

Originally Posted by DietTab

I got over 3 degrees with my fixed dinan plates, you will certainly be able to beat that with the vorschlag plates. I did slot the towers as well, however. that was worth almost a degree on its own.

The Michelins are much narrower at the tread then a star spec or RS3, due to the shape/profile of the tire. I think the 17" wheels are a better choice for autox duty due to cost and tire selection but you can make 18s work.

Style 68s are 17x8.5 with a 50 offset, perfect up front with a 12mm spacer.

Have you tracked your car at all? I would be a little worried about brake temperature if I was doing lapping days running a 17" rim up front. Even with a 18" rim I feel the brakes don't get enough air flow.

I think I am going to order some tires in standard sizes/fitment for now. I will remove my rears and do a bunch of test fitting and see if I can get the 255/35/18s to play nice up front with mt TC Kline coils and other suspension bits. I will report all of my findings when I do so.

[Ginger_Extract]

Originally Posted by KRyn

Have you tracked your car at all? I would be a little worried about brake temperature if I was doing lapping days running a 17" rim up front. Even with a 18" rim I feel the brakes don't get enough air flow.

I think I am going to order some tires in standard sizes/fitment for now. I will remove my rears and do a bunch of test fitting and see if I can get the 255/35/18s to play nice up front with mt TC Kline coils and other suspension bits. I will report all of my findings when I do so.

I run an aggressive 17" setup too. Coincidentally, I also have brake issues, Inconsistent pedal and shredded piston dust boots (pistons look okay for now). I have also thought about this because there is minimal clearance of our brake calipers and 17" wheel barrels, but I can find no concrete information stating that this would be an issue of concern beyond the obvious, will it clear the brakes. If you have any hard info that you'd like to share regarding temp management, I'm all ears. Car has seen at least 6(?) DEs and a full season on autox on 17's.

[dcaron9999]

Originally Posted by Ginger_Extract

I run an aggressive 17" setup too. Coincidentally, I also have brake issues, Inconsistent pedal and shredded piston dust boots (pistons look okay for now). I have also thought about this because there is minimal clearance of our brake calipers and 17" wheel barrels, but I can find no concrete information stating that this would be an issue of concern beyond the obvious, will it clear the brakes. If you have any hard info that you'd like to share regarding temp management, I'm all ears. Car has seen at least 6(?) DEs and a full season on autox on 17's.

I ran into front brake pad fading/heating issues too, as I built up more speed, with a wider wheel up front and less air reaching the rotors. That stock bumper duct dumping air into the wheel fender doesnt do much. This is what I decided to do for the 2015 lapping season. I just installed home made 2" aircraft ducting and flanges attached to my stock brake dust shields. Cost me about $80CAD in parts. Will see how this goes once the 2015 season starts in mid to late April ... Sorry for the thread jack ...

[chris82]

Originally Posted by Buzz135

Here is a write up Apex did on my car that may help. I have never used the KW clubsports but Apex are knowledgeable about what will fit and track fitment. http://www.myapexparts.com/2013/09/1...s-track-setup/

That's your car? badass, I've read that article before, very informative

[KRyn]

After communicating with TC Kline...

"You can have the tire only a couple thousands clearance to the spring land without any issues."

[KRyn]

Alright, I am finalizing my parts list and placing orders for the final pieces my project requires. I plan to install everything some time next month.

After communicating with TC Kline, reading and rereading everything posted in this thread I have decided to order 12mm spacers (maybe 15mm now?). Hopefully with an effective offset of 40 (or 37?) and roughly -3 degrees of camber I will be able to run a square 255/35/18 setup on my car. I will only look to a fender roll & pull as a last resort if I have no other options.

Can anyone comment on which tire will have a smaller sectional width between the PSS and new Direzza Star Spec II on a 8.5” rim? I am leaning towards the PSS as it appears to have a smaller sectional width on a 8.5" rim as well as coming in more sizes.

The 255/35R18 Dunlop Direzza ZII's has a sectional width of 10.2" (according to this thread)
The PSS has a sectional width of 10.2" also according to Tire Rack
The NT-01 only has a maximum width of 9.49" according to Nitto's website

Kgolf31 what size tire are you running on your 17" rims?

PigFarmer what kind of clearance did you have between the the tire wall and the coil / strut while running the 245/35/18 ET45? Was it substantial enough to be able to squeeze a 255/35/18 in there, or would you require a spacer? Do you think at an offset of 40 or 37 would be more likely to make everything fit with a 255/35/18?

Elsabor67 How much camber do you have dialed in? After reading your post I might actually consider getting a 15mm spacer if you claim you only had about 6mm of clearance to the strut whilst running a 235 NT-01 with TC Kline D/A...

[yllwwgn]

Originally Posted by dcaron9999

I ran into front brake pad fading/heating issues too, as I built up more speed, with a wider wheel up front and less air reaching the rotors. That stock bumper duct dumping air into the wheel fender doesnt do much. This is what I decided to do for the 2015 lapping season. I just installed home made 2" aircraft ducting and flanges attached to my stock brake dust shields. Cost me about $80CAD in parts. Will see how this goes once the 2015 season starts in mid to late April ... Sorry for the thread jack ...

dcaron9999 loving the DIY approach you used and thanks for sharing!

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by KRyn

Alright, I am finalizing my parts list and placing orders for the final pieces my project requires. I plan to install everything some time next month.

After communicating with TC Kline, reading and rereading everything posted in this thread I have decided to order 12mm spacers (maybe 15mm now?). Hopefully with an effective offset of 40 (or 37?) and roughly -3 degrees of camber I will be able to run a square 255/35/18 setup on my car. I will only look to a fender roll & pull as a last resort if I have no other options.

Can anyone comment on which tire will have a smaller sectional width between the PSS and new Direzza Star Spec II on a 8.5” rim? I am leaning towards the PSS as it appears to have a smaller sectional width on a 8.5" rim as well as coming in more sizes.

The 255/35R18 Dunlop Direzza ZII's has a sectional width of 10.2" (according to this thread)
The PSS has a sectional width of 10.2" also according to Tire Rack
The NT-01 only has a maximum width of 9.49" according to Nitto's website

Kgolf31 what size tire are you running on your 17" rims?

PigFarmer what kind of clearance did you have between the the tire wall and the coil / strut while running the 245/35/18 ET45? Was it substantial enough to be able to squeeze a 255/35/18 in there, or would you require a spacer? Do you think at an offset of 40 or 37 would be more likely to make everything fit with a 255/35/18?

Elsabor67 How much camber do you have dialed in? After reading your post I might actually consider getting a 15mm spacer if you claim you only had about 6mm of clearance to the strut whilst running a 235 NT-01 with TC Kline D/A...

I run a 245/40 Hankook RS3 tire with an ET40 + 5mm spacer

[KRyn]

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

I run a 245/40 Hankook RS3 tire with an ET40 + 5mm spacer

After examining your picture on page one and reading your comment about having a fingers worth of space, do you believe you could afford to have your tire 10 mm closer to the spring perch without any problems, assuming you can have the tire only a couple thousands clearance to the spring land without any issues? If so that would make me feel better about running an off set of 40 with a 255/35/18 tire on a 8.5" rim.

dcarron9999 do you believe you could afford to have your front wheels/tires 2mm closer to your fenders without any ill effects? Or would this require a fender roll?

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by KRyn

After examining your picture on page one and reading your comment about having a fingers worth of space, do you believe you could afford to have your tire 10 mm closer to the spring perch without any problems, assuming you can have the tire only a couple thousands clearance to the spring land without any issues? If so that would make me feel better about running an off set of 40 with a 255/35/18 tire on a 8.5" rim.

dcarron9999 do you believe you could afford to have your front wheels/tires 2mm closer to your fenders without any ill effects? Or would this require a fender roll?

Yikes. Honestly I'd have to get the wheel bolted back up, and check and make measurements. Can't really accurately say that.

Also, I don't like 255 on 8.5

[Pig Farmer]

Originally Posted by KRyn

what kind of clearance did you have between the the tire wall and the coil / strut while running the 245/35/18 ET45? Was it substantial enough to be able to squeeze a 255/35/18 in there, or would you require a spacer? Do you think at an offset of 40 or 37 would be more likely to make everything fit with a 255/35/18?

With a 3mm spacer (so a total of ET42) I'm pretty sure I have 6mm of space between the sidewall and strut tube, maybe a little more. Here's a crappy picture which may be helpful. Even with that gap, you can see a dark ring toward the top of the tire where it probably had a slight rub while cornering hard.

[KRyn]

Kgolf31
PigFarmer

I really appreciate you guys taking the time to answer my questions.

Here is my question to everyone in this thread. Would you rather run 245/35/18 fronts with 255/35/18 rears or a squared 245/35/18 setup? The car will be a summer time daily driver and be heavily auto-crossed this year with the possibility of one or two track days. Losing some tread in the back wouldn't be the end of the world, my car simply has a Dinan Stage 1 (came with the car) and it can hardly hook with the crappy run flats currently on it.

My hope in running a square 255/35/18 setup was to improve turn in, the car with 225/40/18s in the front feels off. From what I have read getting some more meat up front improves everything substantially. Moving to a 245 should be a vast improvement over a 225 regardless. Also being able to rotate the tires would be nice. With that said, if I only have a 245/35/18 in the front with a 40 off set I likely wont need as much negative camber so the wear shouldn't be as bad.

I am happy to know that a 245/35/18 will indeed fit up front with my suspension setup.

When comparing a 245 to a 255 on a 8.5" rim what are the pros and cons of each?
I assume a 245 will have a stiffer side wall (a good thing for when turning in hard I assume?) and only lose out slightly in terms of contact patch to ground?

[Kgolf31]

255 on a 8.5 wheel you're not going to have good turn-in. The tire is going to want to skirm on the wheel and you're ultimately going to delay response of the tire to achieve max grip.

This is an AWESOME calculator, take some time playing around with it:

http://bndtechsource.ucoz.com/index/...alculator/0-20

I run 245/40 on a 8.5 wheel. I'd only go 255 on a 9" wheel IMO. You don't gain much going up tires on a 8.5 when you're at 245.

[dcaron9999]

Originally Posted by KRyn

After examining your picture on page one and reading your comment about having a fingers worth of space, do you believe you could afford to have your tire 10 mm closer to the spring perch without any problems, assuming you can have the tire only a couple thousands clearance to the spring land without any issues? If so that would make me feel better about running an off set of 40 with a 255/35/18 tire on a 8.5" rim.

do you believe you could afford to have your front wheels/tires 2mm closer to your fenders without any ill effects? Or would this require a fender roll?

Not without fender rolling and/or pulling. Im already dealing with slight fender rub on front passenger side, only under hard compression. Im not hearing or fealing the rub. I just notice slight rub mark on the outside tire side wall. Ive been lapping the car like this for two years without an issue.

With all that camber (-3.2*) and 0 toe in the front, stiff sidewalls of the Dunlop Direzza ZII, one thing Im not in love with is tramlining on the streets. Got to live with that I suppose.

[Elsabor67]

Originally Posted by dcaron9999

Not without fender rolling and/or pulling. Im already dealing with slight fender rub on front passenger side, only under hard compression. Im not hearing or fealing the rub. I just notice slight rub mark on the outside tire side wall. Ive been lapping the car like this for two years without an issue.

With all that camber (-3.2*) and 0 toe in the front, stiff sidewalls of the Dunlop Direzza ZII, one thing Im not in love with is tramlining on the streets. Got to live with that I suppose.

You don't have a set of street wheels to throw on when you're ont tracking the car?? I am getting ready to swap my NT-01s for a set fo Federal 595 RS-R tires in 235/40-18. Last year the Nittos rubbed up front on max compression but hopefully that will change this year now that I have a completely different setup from last year.

[dcaron9999]

Originally Posted by Elsabor67

You don't have a set of street wheels to throw on when you're ont tracking the car?? I am getting ready to swap my NT-01s for a set fo Federal 595 RS-R tires in 235/40-18. Last year the Nittos rubbed up front on max compression but hopefully that will change this year now that I have a completely different setup from last year.

In the interest of directing funds to as many lapping events as possible, I chose not to spend $1500 - $2000 CAD on a set of Apex or VMR wheels for the track. I am still considering buying two second hand sets of staggered style 68 RIMS to use four rear 17x8.5 ET50 as a square track setup, similar to what Im doing now with my stock style 261's (four 18x8.5 ET52).

[dcaron9999]

My front 255/35R18's tires/18x8.5 ET52 style 261 wheels have an "effective" offset of 42 (ET52 wheels with 10mm spacers). I have -3.2* of camber in front, and lowered suspension (Swift Spec-R springs and Bilstein B8 dampers). I was on stock linear springs and dampers prior to this...

With my new B8's, I have a little bit of strut clearance left (2-3mm), and now considering replacing my 10mm spacers with 8mm spacers. Tire is a little more buried in the fender. Switching the spacers from 10 to 8mm would equate to an ET44 offset (ET52 - 8). This switch would remove my concern with rubbing under hard compression, when Im lapping at the track, going over a curb, etc.

My fenders are not pulled or rolled, and with stock suspension, I had rubbing on front passenger side under hard compression at the track with my square 255/35R18 setup.

I will find out if I rub with my new setup and new Dunlop Direzza Zii StarSpec tires at my first lapping event of the 2015 season next week.

[lowside67]

Fellow Canadian here, I am also building a 1 series for a combination autocross/weekend car. As I am struggling with the US dollar in the same way, can you post where you bought your KW Clubsports and how much they were?

Cheers
Mark

[dcaron9999]

Originally Posted by lowside67

Fellow Canadian here, I am also building a 1 series for a combination autocross/weekend car. As I am struggling with the US dollar in the same way, can you post where you bought your KW Clubsports and how much they were?

Cheers
Mark

Hi Mark. Try this place. No storefront. No web site though. They have a warehouse in Montreal, and ship suspension parts through Canada. They only sell on car forums like Audizine, Vwquebec and Kijiji (Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal, Calgary, Vancouver). They take Paypal for the payment and provide a tracking number. Guy I dealt with via email is named "Anthony".

The specialize in german suspension and have the best pricing in Canada.

You can see their multiple ads here:

http://www.kijiji.ca/o-posters-other-ads/8724251

Here are quotes I got from them earlier this year, when I was considering coilovers. Chose to not do that. I opted for Bilstein B8 dampers and Swift Spec-R springs on my 135i, to get maximum wheel and tire clearance for my square 255/35R18 setup.

ST XA (height and damping rebound adjustable) : 1385$ shipping inc

ST XTA (height, rebound and compression adjustable): 1585$ shipping inc

KW V3 inox : 2365$CAD

KW ClubSport: 2850$CAD