Tay's Voter Sentiment Thread

[lavaletta]

Originally Posted by bfi2906

And one for an Independant

Yay! That'll fix the power problems - we can run the state on hugs and recycled air from whale blow holes.

Might as well tick the ALP box

We don't need the NSW equivelant to Prime Minister Bob Brown -- One's plenty

Sorry, too serious

+1

Gold, pure gold.

At least no-one's ticked Greens yet!! That would require disciplinary proceedings!!

[MrBlonde]

Ask a Greens voter about their thoughts on the Green's defence policy. Alway good for a laugh.

[Guran]

I'm voting Green.

[amk2912]

Originally Posted by Guran

I'm voting Green.

Them's fightin' words........

[MikeVictor]

from a John Birmingham article earlier this week (referencing National pollies, but relevent to a certain extent)

So in the interests of furthering debate about that evolution, I’ve decided to publish a few of the questions I submitted to Bob Brown’s office before we were both distracted by more important things than my feature.
1. Assuming an industry such as coal mining, and associated sectors such as energy generation, cannot be dismantled overnight, how quickly might they be shut down, (your policy outlines suggest a 10-15 year time frame to avoid disaster). Coal mining, and coal fired power aren't the beating heart of the Australian economy, but they're pretty significant organs. How much work has been done on modeling the change to a low carbon economy? It cannot be a simple swap and go operation, can it?

2. Australia plays a large part in the energy security plans of other, very significant polluters, such as China. The coal fired power plants they are opening at a rate of one a week (last time I checked) are both a crucial part of that country's plans to modernise, and a ticking time bomb, environmentally. Their development plans are based in part on securing huge volumes of iron ore from Australia, and black coal to smelt that into steel. How does Greens policy address the consequences - there must be consequences - of unilaterally altering the development plans of other state actors?


3. Greens Economic Policy taken as a whole, seems to imply quite massive changes to the structure and functioning of the Australian economy. From shifting tax revenues away from personal income and towards levying the extractive and polluting industries, towards recasting the transport system so that private, petroleum based motor vehicles are made much less attractive (ie, much more expensive) than mass public transport, or rail based freight. The shift to triple bottom line accounting measures, changes to company and individual tax regimes, foreign investment rules... it's not a modest reform package is it? How much is simple wishful thinking, or of heuristic intent? How viable are such policies, truly, given the ferocious opposition they would encounter from the most powerful sectors of the economy and the losers they would create among sectors of the workforce?

4. In the party's policy statement on International Relations, measure 25 states the Greens would: "require trade agreements to be multilateral, reviewable by Parliament and to include clauses on the observance of human rights and labour laws, health and safety standards and environmental standards, to ensure that trade is not conducted at the expense of manufacturing and rural workers' or consumers' rights or of environmental sustainability."
But how would this work in practice, given the almost universal exploitation of manufacturing and rural workers outside the developed world? Would Apple products be banned because of the appalling conditions under which Foxconn employees work in China? Would textile, clothing and footwear imports from Asia likewise have to cease until companies such as Nike stopped running virtual slave factories in countries like Vietnam? Does the party have any modeling suggesting how much trade could no longer be conducted with such restrictions in place?


5. Does the Greens' desire for 'closer involvement and cooperation with the countries of South East Asia,' run counter to the inevitable tensions created by paradigm changing policies such as the one above, tying trade deals to working conditions in other countries, or, for instance, the goal of wanting 'self determination for the people of West Papua,'? Hardly a statement likely to engender 'closer involvement and cooperation' with any government in Jakarta? The point here is that many of the governments you are seeking to be more closely involved with, are direct beneficiaries of the exploitative arrangements you want to end.

6. The Greens Peace and Security policies would seem to inevitably mean an end to ANZUS Alliance. Not a recasting, or renegotiation, but a repudiation. Is this too harsh an assessment?

7. Even if ANZUS was only suspended (as per the situation with New Zealand after their nuke ban) Australia would lose access to a large range of defence synergies, eg. US satellite intelligence. To maintain capability would mean a massive increase in spending, yet Greens policy seems to imply a much more modest defence budget and ADF. Does the party have a defence blueprint beyond statements of intent about using 'non-violent conflict management'? How would the Greens structure the three forces? What capabilities would stay and what would go? Is there a strategic rationale behind the party's peace and security 'measures'. What are Australia's defence needs? For instance, current doctrine states the need to be able to control the air-sea gap to the country's north during any conflict. Are the Greens of the opinion that such a capability, with its implied need to maintain high technology war fighting platforms and surveillance systems, is unnecessary, even overreaching?

8. If the policy to ban the sale of weapons or components overseas is to be enforced, does this not mean programs such as supplying patrol boats to Pacific Island nations would have to be abandoned? Those countries will seek supply elsewhere. The systems will be bought, but not from Australia. Most likely from other powers with the ability to supply and a desire to gain some measure of influence in the region. How is that a net gain?

9. Given the unprecedented naval build up currently underway in both India and China, including the construction of nuclear powered and armed aircraft carriers and submarines, how would the Greens propose to 'work towards a nuclear-free Asia-Pacific region.'

And, finally, one I didn’t ask but will now:

10: How do you impose a no-fly-zone without an air force?

[1q2w3e4r]

Go Labor. That chicks kinda hot.

[sbce90]

What about that no parking meter party?

[1q2w3e4r]

Not looking good... I've still got me Julie though. Not as hot.

How did Hansen go?

[aus135i]

they get my vote!

Australian Fishing and Lifestyle Party!

[TimMc]

Well done Libs.
That said, I've got very little respect for anybody who says they'll "only ever vote" Liberal/ Labour/ Democrat/ Republican/ Whatever.

[MrBlonde]

God what a hiding.

[amk2912]

Originally Posted by MrBlonde

God what a hiding.

Now let's do this federally.

[gazz]

Okay, me first.

Here in Joh's country we have not only an incumbent government that we are all overjoyed with, we also have an effective oposition with an innovative revolving door approach to leadership combined with a malleable coalition format. Greens? Well, due to an eradication program instituted during Joh's reign Green's are all but extinct as they are shot on sight; along with intellectuals, artists, social commentarians and other assorted free thinking fools.

And I speak for every Queenslander, bar none.

[lavaletta]

Originally Posted by amk2912

Now let's do this federally.

Amen to that.

[Taymaishu]

Originally Posted by TimMc

Well done Libs.
That said, I've got very little respect for anybody who says they'll "only ever vote" Liberal/ Labour/ Democrat/ Republican/ Whatever.

Does that mean you have no respect for politicians?

Loaded question.

[sparoz]

Originally Posted by lavaletta

Amen to that.

x2

[TimMc]

Originally Posted by Taymaishu

Does that mean you have no respect for politicians?

Loaded question.

Not much. Their are exceptions who put in the long hours to look after the greater good & their constituents. There's usually little difference between the two major parties way of thinking, except to belittle whatever their foe puts forward.

I don't appreciate one eyed thinking & closed minds. That doesn't mean I'm not prone to it myself at times... Just because you're born in a particular suburb or into a particular socio-economic family/climate doesn't mean you should be locked into voting for one party for life. I've got bad memories of hearing interviews with some US voters who advised that they had no choice but to vote for Bush Jnr becasue they were from the south. There were similar stories from the north. Australia's not hugely different except our dividing line is not quite so geographical.

[gazz]

Originally Posted by TimMc

There were similar stories from the north. Australia's not hugely different except our dividing line is not quite so geographical.

Oh yes it is. Shame on you Tim. All Mexicans should be deported from our beautiful state. Unless you are a gun club member or vote for Pauline.

[MrBlonde]

While I've never voted anything than Liberal and probably never will, I say Kristina Keneally never gave up and has a lot of heart and I give credit where it is due.

[Taymaishu]

Originally Posted by MrBlonde

While I've never voted anything than Liberal and probably never will, I say Kristina Keneally never gave up and has a lot of heart and I give credit where it is due.

+1.

The way she hammered the State General Secretary (Sam Dastyari) for conceding a few weeks before the election that BOF would win is admirable. He was right, but damn she gave it to the Executive!

[Guran]

Originally Posted by Guran

I'm voting Green.

... and I did.

And I'm rather pleased with the result for the Greens. Looks like they'll have four seats in the Legislative Council (10.94% votes, +1.82% swing), and earned 9.9% of the total vote in the Legislative Assembly (+0.9% swing). That's a remarkable result considering the drubbing they've copped over the carbon tax.

Oh, and congrats to Farry O'Barrell. Having a moderate Liberal in power is a tolerable result as far as I'm concerned.

[bfi2906]

I hope Prime Minister Bob Brown reads this forum, there are some very good questions asked a few posts prior - I'd REALLY like to see them answered.

In case he is reading, surprising as it may seem to you Prime Minister Brown, such issues as those raised above, are actually more important to the country and it's citizens that your incessant ranting on about about the pressing need for land rights for alternative sexually oriented and transgender whales, or free wax for the left-handed surfers from the Glebe womens, comfortable shoe collective.