Was "Battery Question" - Now Red Car On Lift warning

[Craig in Alabam]

Hi Folks,

Re: my previous thread, I had the battery checked and it showed good as new. I was surprised because I don't know if it is the original battery or not. It looks brand new, but there are no date codes on it. Still the battery loses a small amount of charge overnight (from 12.8v down to about 12.6).

So I thought I would check for a parasitic draw. Wish I hadn't. I didn't see anything too bad, about a 70ma draw. But when I reconnected the battery and started the car, I got the red car on lift warning, also no windows, turn signals or anything like that. I'm going through fuses now (man, those are hard to get to!) but if anyone has had this experience I would sure like to hear the remedy.
The car is a 2010 128i. Checked for codes with Torque and there were none. Battery was fully charged when all this happened. Can a battery that passes a load test and shows 100cca more than it should still lose voltage just due to age?

Any ideas?

Thanks,
Craig

[MightyMouseTech]

Could be an alternator problem overcharging the battery?

[Craig in Alabam]

I guess that's possible. The alternator was charging fine before all this (14.4v at idle or so).
What I see in the manual is that the red lift with no other message means either ignition failure (car starts fine), starter failed (not that) or lighting system failure. I think that's the cause since I don't have turn signals, or high beams. Is there any sort of big fuse besides behind the glove box that might control those things? I checked the little 3amp fuse in the trunk that is parallel to the + wire.

Thanks,
Craig

[Gizmo135i]

Did you pull any of the big wires out of the distribution box on the top of the battery? Sounds like your FRM module is unresponsive, they have been known to go bad every now and then.

P.s. There are most deffinatly codes stored in the system, whatever tool your using to read them isn't picking them up.

[Craig in Alabam]

Hi Gizmo,

I didn't pull any wires out of the distribution box. All I did was disconnect the negative ground.

Craig

[Craig in Alabam]

After browsing the net, it looks like all the things that aren't working are controlled by the general control module (windows, lights, turn signals). I may disconnected the battery before the car went to sleep. Would that fry the GM3?

Thanks,
Craig

[Gizmo135i]

Your car doesn't have a general module, it's the FRM (front electronics module) and it's located behind the drivers kick panel.

yes disconnecting the battery with the car awake could possibly damage a control unit, the FRM seems to be very sensitive to things like this.

If all you did was disconnect the negitive, and are positive you didn't disconnect anything else or blow any fuses then I would say chances are you fried the FRM.

[Gizmo135i]

Also unfortunately I'm pretty sure the FRM locks to the car so you can't install a used unit from another car, and it needs to be coded to work properly

[Craig in Alabam]

Thanks Gizmo! I've prepared myself for the worst, so tomorrow I'm calling the dealer. Every now and then I need an expensive lesson to remind myself that new cars are different.
Any idea how much a new FRM costs?

Thanks!
Craig

[Gizmo135i]

Idk off hand I would say somewhere between $500-$600 for the part and probably 2 1/2 - 3 hours labor to install/program at the dealer, so most likely over 1k... sorry to be the bearer of bad news lol.

Reading your post I wouldn't think you had a battery draw unless you have a new battery and it's consistently dropping below 11v or so, losing .2v over night isn't anything to worry about

[ianc]

disconnecting the battery with the car awake could possibly damage a control unit, the FRM seems to be very sensitive to things like this

That's kind of scary. How does one make the car go to sleep if it's needful to disconnect the battery?

ianc

[Gizmo135i]

Waiting until the backlighting on the start/stop button goes out is probably a good practice

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by ianc

That's kind of scary. How does one make the car go to sleep if it's needful to disconnect the battery?

ianc

You need to keep the CA key fob away from the car(IF you have CA/comfort access) and then you need to wait about 20 minutes. THEN you can disconnect the battery.

This is why you should use an OBDII battery supply pack on modern cars. That way no ECU's will get scrambled and your engine learned values will not get erased.

OBDII battery saver...
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_s...=1S8WIHB0QYZZQ


https://www.google.de/search?hl=en&s...ry+supply+pack

OP - you might try to disconnect the battery(after the car is asleep) and wait 30 minutes, then reconnect the battery and see IF your windows/etc work.

good luck,
Dackel

[Silenus]

Originally Posted by Gizmo135i

Waiting until the backlighting on the start/stop button goes out is probably a good practice

Always.

We extended the warranty on the FRM to 8 years, 120,000 miles btw.

[mr.fabulous]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

This is why you should use an OBDII battery supply pack on modern cars. That way no ECU's will get scrambled and your engine learned values will not get erased.

Would connecting a smart battery charger under the hood work?

[Ric in RVA]

Originally Posted by Silenus

Always.

We extended the warranty on the FRM to 8 years, 120,000 miles btw.

Who is WE? BMWUSA?




Also could you change battery with charger connected under hood so car never loses power?

[markslc1]

Originally Posted by Gizmo135i

Your car doesn't have a general module, it's the FRM (front electronics module) and it's located behind the drivers kick panel.

yes disconnecting the battery with the car awake could possibly damage a control unit, the FRM seems to be very sensitive to things like this.

If all you did was disconnect the negitive, and are positive you didn't disconnect anything else or blow any fuses then I would say chances are you fried the FRM.

This has got me freaking out because I just removed my battery last night to have it tested/replaced. These cars cant handle having the battery removed?

[Craig in Alabam]

Hi Mark,

You should be fine if the car was asleep before you disconnected the battery. Might be fine either way. I think I was just "lucky"...

My car is at the dealership now. They advised me to come home and join CCA for the discount. Gulp! I'll update when I hear back.

I'd be interested in the FRM warranty as well, since I might be buying one today.

Cheers!
Craig

[gjm120]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

You need to keep the CA key fob away from the car(IF you have CA/comfort access) and then you need to wait about 20 minutes. THEN you can disconnect the battery.

This is why you should use an OBDII battery supply pack on modern cars. That way no ECU's will get scrambled and your engine learned values will not get erased.

OBDII battery saver...
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_s...=1S8WIHB0QYZZQ


https://www.google.de/search?hl=en&s...ry+supply+pack

good luck,
Dackel

How do these things work? Seems like almost a necessity for changing the battery unless you can be dead sure your car is sleeping. My car seems to sleep very lightly.

Is an external power source (e.g. another battery or a charger) an option?? However, I recall reading that an external power source causes problems when the battery is disconnected.

[Gizmo135i]

Originally Posted by gjm120

How do these things work? Seems like almost a necessity for changing the battery unless you can be dead sure your car is sleeping. My car seems to sleep very lightly.

Is an external power source (e.g. another battery or a charger) an option?? However, I recall reading that an external power source causes problems when the battery is disconnected.

That's not nessicary to keep an external power source.... the only thing you would be saving is the time on the clock... just let the car go to sleep

[Horigan]

I just learned this lesson the hard way just this week. Was troubleshooting a comfort access door handle issue and fried the FRM by disconnecting the battery without letting the car go to sleep. With all the battery replacement/registration threads on this forum you'd think this would have come up. It's not even in my Bentley manual. I hope the warranty is still available...

Rich

[mr.fabulous]

I must have gotten extremely lucky when I replaced my battery not long after I bought the car. I don't honestly recall how long the car had been sitting when I did this. I still have the original, I'll be sure to use that and one of those OBD dongles recommended by Dack.

But let me ask a question about that... say I'm doing some work that would otherwise require me to disconnect the battery. Am I not defeating that strategy by powering the OBD port?