Clutch problem 2

[123D-M]

I have a 123d coupe and have been experiencing some intermittent clutch slip after gear changes. It does not happen often but when it does it will continue to happen for a while then stop again. And if I stop the car after a period of this I can smell the clutch pretty badly. This has happened since the first day I had the car and I have treated it very carefully. It only has 5000kms on it now.

Anyway, I reported my problems to the dealer because with a problem like this I know it is very difficult to prove that you didn't ruin it once it has completely failed. They looked in the BMW service database and it seems that this is a known problem. I'm not sure if it is just the 123d or if it is the 135i as well. Potentially we have the same clutches and gearboxes as torque between the two models is the same but I'm not sure.

Unfortunately there is no solution available yet so they are not going to take my car in. My car is still perfectly driveable as, as I mentioned, the problem is intermittent and my clutch works fine most of the time. But obviously I am concerned about failure in the future which is why I brought it up.

Anyway, the reason for reporting here is to see if anyone else has had a similar problem and to give them some support for making a claim. I know that at least one member has experienced a ruined clutch and got little sympathy from the dealer. http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16103

I'm trying to get more details on what exactly is reported in the BMW database and in the meantime I'm driving my car even more carefully which isn't enhancing my enjoyment of it

FYI: the symptoms I have experienced are a noticeable hesitation after engaging a higher gear after my foot is completely off the clutch. This is completely unconnected with how fast or slow I am driving and actually occurs more often when I am driving slowly and changing up at low to medium revs. And then, when I stop, I can smell burning clutch. I believe that something is wrong with the throw bearing or that area that is causing the clutch to stick slightly open before fully engaging.

Hopefully the dealer gets back to me soon with a solution. I will be wanting a new clutch in addition to whatever is fixed because I'm sure the life of my clutch is signficantly shortened.

[akak1997]

did you do the clutch delay valve mod? It almost sounds like there're some blockage in the line maybe at the cdv, which causing the clutch not to engage fully. Not sure if you can get a modded CDV in Belgium, but it'd be a relatively cheap thing to try.

[123D-M]

No, no modifications. Which I'm glad about as I'm sure they would deny any warranty claim if I had.

It sounds like that could be a possible cause.

Anyway, the clutch is basically completely fried now. On the way home last night it was slipping even under 6th gear acceleration.

BMW are going to call me and hopefully take it in today.

[EspressoBoy]

123D-M,

Thanks for the information. Great post. Sorry about the car. The only good thing is it's easy to repeat the problem now, so they should be able to fix get them to fix it under warranty. Remember to ask for a good loaner. At the dealership I go to, they have a lot of crappy Saturns, and you have to "wait" for a BMW. So I just delay the visit a few days to get it. Silly eh!

I hate problems that only happen once is a blue moon. Then the day you go in to show them, and it won't do it.

I will make a point to read the repair on this one. Thanks again for the post!

EspressoBoy

[123D-M]

Luckily I have had decent loaner cars in the past. My car has already spent significant time at the dealer because the iDrive died and had to be replaced. The dealer has a fleet of 1er hatches for loaning and BMW Belux gave me a 120i convertible after my car had been in pieces for ages. I work at BMW Belux so maybe that had something to do with it

I complained about my intermittent slipping clutch while the iDrive was being repaired and happily the service manager took it for a drive and it happened while he was driving it. As I mentioned though, there isn't a solution yet so I am waiting. Not for much longer though I hope. My current clutch is on its last legs.

[EspressoBoy]

wow, you work for BMW! No wonder you are not interested in mods.

I hope you didn't get a garage queen.

I am trying to imagine the problem in my head, so please bear with me...

You are going say 120 km in 5th gear (manual obviously) and you push in the clutch, shift into 6th, let the clutch out... and instead of the car being in 6th, it is delayed, or in neutral?

I have never had a slipped clutch so I am just wondering...

One other person I remember talked about having problems going from one gear to another...and I think it was 5th to 6th... I was not able to find it.

EspressoBoy

[123D-M]

I'm an IT contractor, not an employee. But I've worked here for a while.

What's a garage queen?

The most obvious symptom of a slipping clutch (and this can happen in any manual car) is felt when you are not changing gear. If you are in 6th, for example, doing 120kph and you put your foot down to try and do 140kph the revs will rise dramatically but the car will not increase speed. It is as if you have put your foot on the clutch but in actuality the clutch is just slipping. It has been worn out to the point where it can no longer transmit the torque to the flywheel.

I'm experiencing this now that my clutch is almost fried. But my initial symptoms were clutch slip only on gearchange. i.e. I would change gear from 2nd to 3rd, remove foot from clutch, apply accelerator, and the revs would rise while the car hesitates. Then after a second the clutch would grip and all would be well. Except for the burning smell coming through the air vent.

These initial symptoms were caused, IMHO, by a problem with the throw bearing that stopped the clutch from pressing hard against the flywheel and thus allowing a momentary slip. It doesn't take much slipping to kill a clutch. I remember a friend (who was a useless driver) sitting on a steep incline at a red light for just 30 seconds riding the clutch instead of using the handbrake. Then was upset that the car wouldn't move when the light turned green. Clutch was toast.

If you are not familiar with how a clutch works, check this site out: http://auto.howstuffworks.com/clutch.htm

[EspressoBoy]

K perfect explaination. Thanks now I understand what you went through. It's as if the clutch is like 1/2 out like when someone is "learning" to drive stick, and they soft pedal the clutch when going from 0-20 km in first... let the clutch out slowly yet still on gas... Obviously not a good way, but sometimes learning requires a bit of finess...obviously why the 1 is not a good car to learn on.... lol

Garage Queen
http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...ge%20queen

I mean it like the first meaning... but just the fact that the car is more in the "garage/dealership" than being able to be driven. Something we all never want. Close to a lemon too I guess. Slang is always hard to put proper meaning on it.

I picked up that term here (1addicts) LOL


Thanks again for the reply. I will keep an eye for when it's all fixed and you are a happy 1 again!

EspressoBoy

[123D-M]

Well the car is booked in next week for the clutch and flywheel to be replaced. I'm not convinced this will solve the underlying cause of the problem but time will tell.

And yes, my car is becoming a garage queen. 20% of its life so far has been spent at the dealer. sigh.

Pity we don't have a lemon law here in Belgium.

[123D-M]

Update: I dropped my car at the dealer this morning as all the clutch parts were now available. And by 10.30am I had customer service in touch with me so they must have put the car straight on the hoist.

They had taken out the gearbox and immediately discovered the cause of my clutch problems. The gearbox was leaking oil from around the main bearing on to the clutch plate. This was causing the initial slippage and has of course led to my clutch and fly-wheel being destroyed.

However, this now means that the entire gearbox needs to be replaced as well and of course the dealer doesn't have one in stock. Happily, because I am off on a driving holiday in England on Tuesday, BMW Belgium agreed to express courier a new gearbox from Munich overnight (hate to think what that cost) so I should have my car back tomorrow evening.

So, as unhappy as I may be about BMW build quality at this point I really can't fault the customer service. They have been very attentive and understanding of how annoying it is to have a brand new car with such major problems. I just hope that after this incident I will not have to visit the dealer again for a while...

[pavelitto]

Wow! You've been unlucky with your car so far....
I feel sorry for you and now when I got my car I'm slightly concerned...
Hopefully it was just one of thing that happened to you and once they replace what they have to replace everything will be fine.

I had some problems with the transmission of my older mini cooper. But that was like 3 years ago eventually the replaced the whole gearbox and it was fine ever-after.
Good luck and let us know the outcome