iCarbon Quality Issues?

[DTMrack.com]

Hey guys, I just thought I should address xiosmx5's pictures and his comment about the gaps.

I decided I would just paste an email I sent to a customer who had the same sentiments in the past with his diffuser. I assure you, I've held BMW performance pieces in my hands, in fact, the 1 series spoiler and it had the same gaps. If you want to know why, read as follows:

Thank you for writing us about your concerns. The truth is that all quality cosmetic carbon fiber pieces that have thinness as a specification will have those 'holes'. These holes aren't holes at all. They are, actually, the small gaps between the carbon fiber fabric where light shines through. The high temperature epoxy resin and clear coat are both clear. This is why the light shines through.

The problem with good carbon fiber is that it is very hard to come by so people always expect the thick fiberglass pieces that have been selling as if they were carbon fiber. These cheaply made pieces use black frp to reinforce because it is cheaper than carbon fiber fabric. This combination creates a piece that resembles carbon fiber cosmetically, but it is light years apart in structure, weight, and quality. Light will NEVER shine through any of these pieces no matter how thin they are made.

The reason this diffuser is made thin, both from iCarbon and BMW, is because it needs to fit properly.

We at DTMrack can testify to the quality of their carbon fiber. Remember they are manufactured the same way BMW manufactures theirs.

I assure you this is perfectly normal and the piece is not unlike the pieces that have been praised by companies such as Adenau gmbh in Tokyo, Vivid racing, and WSTO. The quality is so on par, in fact, that even United BMW carries iCarbon pieces in their showroom. All of these companies have testified to the quality of the TRUE carbon fiber of iCarbon saying it is second to none.

In fact, after much research and comparison between carbon fiber companies, MADDAD hired iCarbon and requested they develop a diffusor to fit their quad exhaust because they were truly impressed with the quality. Every other diffuser they tried was sub-par quality and would pop out because it was too thick, and thinness couldn't be achieved since it wasn't true carbon fiber, much less quality carbon fiber.

However, if you ARE unsatisfied with the piece, we want you to be happy. You are more than welcome to send it back to us. Please make sure that the piece is properly packed as was packed from iCarbon, since shipping companies are RUTHLESS.

If you have any other concerns, please feel free to let us know. We are here for YOU.

I hope this has cleared any questions you might have.

Cheers,


I also want to point out that since then, other companies have switched to iCarbon pieces to use on their track cars. One of which is ER (Evolution Racewerks) which continues to dominate while sporting iCarbon pieces all over.

[Yvette]

sent pm about spoiler DTM,
pm me price

[1SerieStud]

That's a pretty email, but I don't think it's a good idea for you to speak in the name of BMW Performance, because I own a BMW performance spoiler and diffuser, and I can guarantee to you that neither piece has holes on them big enough to let light pass through. Yes, I am that nit-picky, and I always have my nose up close to these pieces every time I wash/detail my car, and I would have noticed by now if either piece had this problem.

Originally Posted by DTMrack.com

Hey guys, I just thought I should address xiosmx5's pictures and his comment about the gaps.

I decided I would just paste an email I sent to a customer who had the same sentiments in the past with his diffuser. I assure you, I've held BMW performance pieces in my hands, in fact, the 1 series spoiler and it had the same gaps. If you want to know why, read as follows:

Thank you for writing us about your concerns. The truth is that all quality cosmetic carbon fiber pieces that have thinness as a specification will have those 'holes'. These holes aren't holes at all. They are, actually, the small gaps between the carbon fiber fabric where light shines through. The high temperature epoxy resin and clear coat are both clear. This is why the light shines through.

The problem with good carbon fiber is that it is very hard to come by so people always expect the thick fiberglass pieces that have been selling as if they were carbon fiber. These cheaply made pieces use black frp to reinforce because it is cheaper than carbon fiber fabric. This combination creates a piece that resembles carbon fiber cosmetically, but it is light years apart in structure, weight, and quality. Light will NEVER shine through any of these pieces no matter how thin they are made.

The reason this diffuser is made thin, both from iCarbon and BMW, is because it needs to fit properly.

We at DTMrack can testify to the quality of their carbon fiber. Remember they are manufactured the same way BMW manufactures theirs.

I assure you this is perfectly normal and the piece is not unlike the pieces that have been praised by companies such as Adenau gmbh in Tokyo, Vivid racing, and WSTO. The quality is so on par, in fact, that even United BMW carries iCarbon pieces in their showroom. All of these companies have testified to the quality of the TRUE carbon fiber of iCarbon saying it is second to none.

In fact, after much research and comparison between carbon fiber companies, MADDAD hired iCarbon and requested they develop a diffusor to fit their quad exhaust because they were truly impressed with the quality. Every other diffuser they tried was sub-par quality and would pop out because it was too thick, and thinness couldn't be achieved since it wasn't true carbon fiber, much less quality carbon fiber.

However, if you ARE unsatisfied with the piece, we want you to be happy. You are more than welcome to send it back to us. Please make sure that the piece is properly packed as was packed from iCarbon, since shipping companies are RUTHLESS.

If you have any other concerns, please feel free to let us know. We are here for YOU.

I hope this has cleared any questions you might have.

Cheers,


I also want to point out that since then, other companies have switched to iCarbon pieces to use on their track cars. One of which is ER (Evolution Racewerks) which continues to dominate while sporting iCarbon pieces all over.

[thez99]

I didnt think he said anything bad bout bmw perf there..?

[1SerieStud]

Originally Posted by thez99

I didnt think he said anything bad bout bmw perf there..?

He said the flaw (holes allowing light to pass through) is normal and that even BMW performance parts are prone to them because they use the "same manufacturing process".

[woner]

Originally Posted by 1SerieStud

That's a pretty email, but I don't think it's a good idea for you to speak in the name of BMW Performance, because I own a BMW performance spoiler and diffuser, and I can guarantee to you that neither piece has holes on them big enough to let light pass through. Yes, I am that nit-picky, and I always have my nose up close to these pieces every time I wash/detail my car, and I would have noticed by now if either piece had this problem.

That email was actually sent to me. I only noticed the gaps in the weave when handling the piece in a well lit room before installation. I can't see any gaps after installing it on the car. In all honesty, iCarbon products are probably slightly inferior quality to oem bmw carbon fiber, but they are still very high quality. Just curious, how does the bmw diffuser line up at the top with the bumper? Is it pretty even or is it slightly recessed? My diffuser sits even with the bumper. I can push it in a small amount to make it slightly recessed but it won't stay like that. JW how the oem piece sits.

[1SerieStud]

Originally Posted by woner

That email was actually sent to me. I only noticed the gaps in the weave when handling the piece in a well lit room before installation. I can't see any gaps after installing it on the car. In all honesty, iCarbon products are probably slightly inferior quality to oem bmw carbon fiber, but they are still very high quality. Just curious, how does the bmw diffuser line up at the top with the bumper? Is it pretty even or is it slightly recessed? My diffuser sits even with the bumper. I can push it in a small amount to make it slightly recessed but it won't stay like that. JW how the oem piece sits.

It's slightly recessed. There is a small section where it's a little less recessed and I think it's that way by design, but fitment is perfect. I love my diffuser!

[HondaGoneRogue]

Unless DTMrack can produce some happy customers, preferably an amount outnumbering the unhappy ones, I think this thread will continue to speak for itself. Some people seem to think I have some kind of vendetta against iCarbon. No. I have a low tolerance for bullshit. And I don't appreciate DTM coming in here trying to blow sunshine up everybodys ass. Maybe if the product wasn't defective to begin with, the job of pleasing customers might be easier.

I didn't have problem at first letting you speak on behalf of iCarbon, but now it's getting annoying. You are free to make an iCarbon is great thread (I think you tried that already though), so I would appreciate you leaving the quality thread alone as you are not the manufacturer. Or post up some pics of your vast inventory of flawless parts.

[Yvette]

Originally Posted by woner

That email was actually sent to me. I only noticed the gaps in the weave when handling the piece in a well lit room before installation. I can't see any gaps after installing it on the car. In all honesty, iCarbon products are probably slightly inferior quality to oem bmw carbon fiber, but they are still very high quality. Just curious, how does the bmw diffuser line up at the top with the bumper? Is it pretty even or is it slightly recessed? My diffuser sits even with the bumper. I can push it in a small amount to make it slightly recessed but it won't stay like that. JW how the oem piece sits.

I would like to see pics what you are refering.
I am getting my cf diffuser in a week, and would like to know what I need to know.

[Yvette]

Originally Posted by HondaGoneRogue

Unless DTMrack can produce some happy customers, preferably an amount outnumbering the unhappy ones, I think this thread will continue to speak for itself. Some people seem to think I have some kind of vendetta against iCarbon. No. I have a low tolerance for bullshit. And I don't appreciate DTM coming in here trying to blow sunshine up everybodys ass. Maybe if the product wasn't defective to begin with, the job of pleasing customers might be easier.

I didn't have problem at first letting you speak on behalf of iCarbon, but now it's getting annoying. You are free to make an iCarbon is great thread (I think you tried that already though), so I would appreciate you leaving the quality thread alone as you are not the manufacturer. Or post up some pics of your vast inventory of flawless parts.

if you dont like it, you dont buy. I don't see the problem. Reading your post, I think you are mad?

[HondaGoneRogue]

Yeah, I just don't appreciate the fact that DTM is using this thread to try to spin the whole issue that warranted it's creation. Whether I buy or not, it's kind of insulting.

[1speedbike]

and the plot thickens..

[adrean8j]

@DTMrack: You just don't listen/read do you? The business advice was free

[Xios135]

This is the e-mail I received from iCarbon (on Sunday morning no less) after shooting them a quick e-mail with the same photo I posted here. To be clear, I'm no carbon fiber expert and as a matter of fact I can probably say that this is the first "real" CF product I've ever purchased so I wasn't sure what the norm was. My knee jerk reaction after noticing the gaps was to grab my camera, throw a pic of it on the forum and see what others have experienced. This was before I even sent the e-mail to iCarbon. In hindsight, this was probably not fair....at least in my opinion. I'll accept their explaination (and DTM's) if in fact the BMW Perf. spoiler does the same thing. In the end, if I put the thing on and it looks good with no obvious flaws....I'm happy.

Our pieces are made purely of carbon, and for the trunk spoiler to fit properly,
it needs to be very thin and flexible. If you back it with FRP, it becomes very
cheap, very stiff, and will never fit - that's the problem with the replicas out
there.

If you've ever held a BMW performance spoiler, you'll notice it does the same
thing as ours, because it's pure carbon, and equally as thin.

The ONLY reason you're seeing that is because you're holding it up to a light
source. Once on the car, with no light behind it, you will never see that. We
would never sell a product that looked that way once installed. Put it up
against the trunk, and you'll see that disappears.

If you ever buy a carbon fiber product that is very stiff, pure black on the
inside, and thick, then you've got a SERIOUS problem on your hands - it will
never fit right, and you've gotten your money robbed by some cheap, FRP
reinforced garbage coming out of Taiwan.

[TheJerseyDon]

I recieved my icarbon trunk spoiler friday and i had the same issue however just like they said it looks great once installed no visable holes. i matched it up to my buddy's bmw oem version both appear to be the same. the only way is if you knock on it the icarbon appears to be a little thinner sounding. i can tell you guys it looks great and for the price it was right! lets hope the diffuser is the same...

Originally Posted by xiosmx5

This is the e-mail I received from iCarbon (on Sunday morning no less) after shooting them a quick e-mail with the same photo I posted here. To be clear, I'm no carbon fiber expert and as a matter of fact I can probably say that this is the first "real" CF product I've ever purchased so I wasn't sure what the norm was. My knee jerk reaction after noticing the gaps was to grab my camera, throw a pic of it on the forum and see what others have experienced. This was before I even sent the e-mail to iCarbon. In hindsight, this was probably not fair....at least in my opinion. I'll accept their explaination (and DTM's) if in fact the BMW Perf. spoiler does the same thing. In the end, if I put the thing on and it looks good with no obvious flaws....I'm happy.

[NFIDDY5]

Originally Posted by DTMrack.com

Trust me, I understand. And I hate to disagree with you, but it is still their fault. When we say we have something in stock, its not because we are drop shipping it from one of our manufacturers. We BUY our stock. If more dealers did this, there would be better service for everyone

Wait. So you are telling me its the vendor's fault that iCarbon blantantly lied to us over a conference call? I guess either I missed something here or didn't explain myself correctly. It doesn't matter at this point. I cancelled the order last Tuesday and got both parts from a competitor installed that day. Not trying to start a pissing match cause at this point, I could care less about iCarbon or any of their issues since I wont be using their products. Just kinda confused how iCarbon isn't at fault for lying to me and then never ever responding to me or the vendor. For well over 6 weeks....hell, they still haven't responded to my cancellation yet.

Again, I am NOT trying to start a war of words. Just trying to understand how that can even be rationalized. Also, why did you offer to just process my order if you were sitting on stock sir? I ordered through iCarbon....I though we were homies my nickel! J/K...Kinda....

[HPFREAK]

My rear spoiler has had this happen to it as well. I emailed Mario about it weeks ago and he said he would get me a replacement when he had them in stock. I just spoke with him again on monday and he said he would get another one out to me, but so far I have no tracking number. mario has said he will ship for sure by the end of this week. He has always been on th eup and up with me so I dont doubt it. Seems like there finisher put too thin of a clear coat on them. I am going to send mine back to him so they can hopefully just refinish it and sell it again. It is in perfectly good nick otherwise.

[thez99]

Christ..these threads have pretty much blown me off doing any CF exterior mods, period. I dont need to deal with shit like that after spending all kinds of money on "quality" products

[mineo77]

my new hood arrived, looks excellent. Will be installing aerocatch pins next week and have it on my car for Mfest. After Mfest will get it painted, assuming there are no fitment issue encountered.

will report back next week with pics etc.

[vwown3d]

Still no resolution for me. If u remember from my trunk DIY

[M2BMW]

Originally Posted by 1SerieStud

That's a pretty email, but I don't think it's a good idea for you to speak in the name of BMW Performance, because I own a BMW performance spoiler and diffuser, and I can guarantee to you that neither piece has holes on them big enough to let light pass through. Yes, I am that nit-picky, and I always have my nose up close to these pieces every time I wash/detail my car, and I would have noticed by now if either piece had this problem.

+1, I did not see "holes" in my BMW performance spoiler, diffuser or mirror caps.

[mineo77]

HPF received my hood just in time for Mfest from iCarbon. Overall quality out of the box was excellent. We sat this hood next to a vorsteiner and siebon hood for the E46 and the finish was a definitely nicer on the iCarbon. The weave pattern was virtually perfect with a few small areas we noted only cause we were comparing each hood with a flash light and all the hoods had a nice weave but none of them where 100% perfect but none of them had bad flaws that could be noticed. The clear coat polish was nice, no hazing or wet sand marks that was an issue for some in the 1st batch. From what iCarbon and DTMrack told me is that they have fixed those issues.

Next bit was the install of the hood and aerocatch latches. I had John (lead tech at HPF) install the hood and latches. The hood fitment was nearly perfect with the exception of the water nozzles for the window cleaner was a bit narrower so we had to cut some tubing to get all the tubing flush, but you do not have to do this, you could simply have some slack in the tubing without any issues. According to John and the other techs at HPF this was the easiest hood they have installed. They where very reluctant to install my hood since they have had many problems in the past with other carbon hood manufactures with fitment issues. John told me the have had times they had to order 3 seperate hoods which would all fit differently from notable competitors. It got to a point that they no longer offer carbon hood installs cause it was such a PIA, they resource it out to a body shop cause of all the tweaking needed. This was NOT the case for the iCarbon hood. Now it isnt a simple plug and play install...there is some tweaking that needs to be done to the hinges to lift the rear of the hood flush and tweak some fitment, but all within reason and expectations for any aftermarket hood. The other issue was that the sensor for your hood closure needs a rubber stopper installed cause the hood doesnt actually hit the sensor, so we just unplugged mine for the time being. Options are rubber stopper, zip tie the button down, or unplug.

With the latches technically you do not need to install hood latch but we found doing so flushes the front down nicely and would highly recommend.

I was very happy with the install and quality and would highly recommend this hood for folks. I do plan on having it painted after Mfest. DCI and BOV are much more audible with new hood. Weight reduction is significant.


First fitment, you can see the hood pins we drilled out




Drilling out for the aerocatch latches (the longest part of the install)


Installed pics