BMW 1 Series Coupe Forum / 1 Series Convertible Forum (1M / tii / 135i / 128i / Coupe / Cabrio / Hatchback) (BMW E82 E88 128i 130i 135i)
 





 

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      05-29-2019, 10:11 PM   #1
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Visual Comparison Between the Stock 128i "Suction Hood" and the BMWPI "Suction Hood"

Since I had the PI out for a PM anyway.

The BMWPI "Suction Hood" looks far more engineered n'CFDd and such. It's made by Cooper in the UK.













Suction Hood
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      05-30-2019, 05:06 AM   #2
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Complete waste of money especially on a stock 128i. That's not a bottleneck.
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      05-30-2019, 06:44 AM   #3
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I don't know if it adds hp or not but I agree it looks like it should flow better. A key difference is the lack of the corrugated flexible part near one end. Those sort of flexible connections help with installation but have very disproportionate impact on air resistance. Makes me wonder how much more difficult the performance intake is to install.
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      05-30-2019, 07:39 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimD View Post
Makes me wonder how much more difficult the performance intake is to install.
It's not bad to install.
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      05-30-2019, 09:14 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wind Breezes View Post
Complete waste of money especially on a stock 128i. That's not a bottleneck.
The TL;DR version:

The long, annoyed by self-appointed expert keyboard jockeys and feeling snarky version:

I'll bite.

Oh oh. I've awakened the resident troll. I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man. Your blurting reminds me of Brick from Anchorman: The Legend of Ron Burgundy. “Hey, Ron! I’m riding a furry tractor!” You must be doing double duty now that Happy Jose/Mr Rooty Von Tooty got banned.

Enough with the ad hominem and on with my opposing arguments.

BMW claims "Upgrading to a BMW Performance air intake system will unleash gains of up to 3 horsepower and 3 ft-lbs. of torque for your 1 Series, while also helping the engine to operate more efficiently with a 30% reduction in back pressure and increased overall performance." but we all know BMW is famous for overestimating their performance and HP figures.

Not a lot of gain (hey, that's NA!), but my guess is that the gains are well spread over the entire rev range. I also assume that the BMWs claims are accurate and derived under standards-traceable laboratory conditions. Given that from the filter onwards the PI is identical to the stock assembly, that "30% reduction in back pressure" must come from before the filter. Since the filter housing is largely unchanged from stock except for the fancy cover, it's safe to conclude that these gains are mostly from the redesigned "suction hood". So much for your "not a bottleneck" claims.

Dinan seems to disagree with you also. Their "ram air" intake for the E9x 328i etc. is all about getting more air into the air box ('cause it's not a restriction.)(Never mind that the stock intake system is just as much a "ram air" intake as the Dinan is). In addition, the 128is tuned by Dinan for the CSCC utilize the PI, because racers are all about wasting money. Hmm.

What exactly are your qualifications for making your a statements? How long have you been tuning N51/N52 engines? When racing the 128i did your data logging not show any benefit to using the PI? Is your engineering degree related to internal combustion engines? Did your Computational Fluid Dynamics modeling of the 128i's intake system show different results?

Let me guess. You read a thread once.

I have no problems with incremental gains; they add up. As to whether the PI is a waste of money I'll respond that that's an assessment that's up to the individual. I'm sure some think the 128i's a waste of money.
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      05-30-2019, 12:12 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suprgnat View Post
The TL;DR version:

that Happy Jose/Mr Rooty Von Tooty got banned.
I missed that. He seemed to have mellowed a little.
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      05-30-2019, 12:26 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by gjm120 View Post
I missed that. He seemed to have mellowed a little.
I thought so, too.
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      05-30-2019, 12:29 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suprgnat View Post
The TL;DR version:

The long, annoyed by self-appointed expert keyboard jockeys and feeling snarky version:

I'll bite.
.

I'll bite on your bite.

I agree with him in the sense of dollar to improvement ratio might be "error" because you can't divide by zero. I'd be pretty shocked if it made any difference. The stock intake can probably provide more air than the motor will ever ask for (stock). You asked him for his details. I'd ask for the same fom you. Did you dyno before and after? Did anyone? My biggest beef with this forum so far is their trust in tuners and parts manufacturers. No one actually logs/dynos their stuff. There are dozens of "400hp" cars on here and like three dyno sheets.

That said, I'm with you on being ok with small improvements. They do add up, and they add up faster when combined. It's your money, obviously, so go nuts. The intake also looks cool, which I'm good with. Haha

THAT said, god damn your car is beautiful and your build thread is awesome. Keep it up.
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      05-30-2019, 01:05 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soterios View Post
I'll bite on your bite.

I agree with him in the sense of dollar to improvement ratio might be "error" because you can't divide by zero. I'd be pretty shocked if it made any difference. The stock intake can probably provide more air than the motor will ever ask for (stock). You asked him for his details. I'd ask for the same fom you. Did you dyno before and after? Did anyone? My biggest beef with this forum so far is their trust in tuners and parts manufacturers. No one actually logs/dynos their stuff. There are dozens of "400hp" cars on here and like three dyno sheets.

That said, I'm with you on being ok with small improvements. They do add up, and they add up faster when combined. It's your money, obviously, so go nuts. The intake also looks cool, which I'm good with. Haha

THAT said, god damn your car is beautiful and your build thread is awesome. Keep it up.
Thank you.

I made no claims as to the performance of the PI, BMW did, and I have no reason to doubt their numbers or claims. They're not claiming 12+HP and 16+TQ like A*E.

I'd also like to point out that "volume" of air is not the same as "flow". The 3-stage manifold is a great example of this. Any one of the 3 runner configurations can provide more than enough air volume, but it's how that air is delivered, the response to changes in velocity, etc.

My air flow "expertise", such as it is, is limited to the cooling of various high voltage, high power electrical chassis up to about 54 cubic feet in volume, sometimes using Autodesk CFD or ANSYS, and is totally inapplicable to automotive design.

THAT said, I bought the PI because it's pretty.
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Last edited by Suprgnat; 05-30-2019 at 01:37 PM..
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      05-30-2019, 03:15 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suprgnat View Post
Thank you.

I made no claims as to the performance of the PI, BMW did, and I have no reason to doubt their numbers or claims. They're not claiming 12+HP and 16+TQ like A*E.

I'd also like to point out that "volume" of air is not the same as "flow". The 3-stage manifold is a great example of this. Any one of the 3 runner configurations can provide more than enough air volume, but it's how that air is delivered, the response to changes in velocity, etc.

My air flow "expertise", such as it is, is limited to the cooling of various high voltage, high power electrical chassis up to about 54 cubic feet in volume, sometimes using Autodesk CFD or ANSYS, and is totally inapplicable to automotive design.

THAT said, I bought the PI because it's pretty.
Yeah. I don't doubt that it's better than the stock one, I would just be concered as to how much. Either way. It's not like you're out there claiming to be running a half second faster in the eighth because of it. Haha.

Electrical transformer/breaker/motor cooling? Now you're speaking my language. I'm an engineer in the power industry. Haha.
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      05-30-2019, 04:21 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soterios View Post
Yeah. I don't doubt that it's better than the stock one, I would just be concered as to how much. Either way. It's not like you're out there claiming to be running a half second faster in the eighth because of it. Haha.

Electrical transformer/breaker/motor cooling? Now you're speaking my language. I'm an engineer in the power industry. Haha.
Mostly pulsed power transformers and modulators, largely for driving electron tubes for particle accelerators, radiation oncology, x-ray, and radar. We top out around a half to one megawatt average power, but we did a pulse transformer for the Airix flash x-ray photography machine that was 1.5 MV @ 1800 A Peak, so 2.7 GW peak. (Average power is much lower.) We do business with CERN, all of the DOE particle physics labs, KEK, DESY, etc. as well as the DOD, industry, and academia. I just got back from IPAC '19 in Melbourne. It's a hell of a cool business to be in. We also design and build beam line magnets and klystron focusing solenoids.
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      05-31-2019, 01:32 AM   #12
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Well I know the main reason I am going to be buying the PI is for the looks haha.

The carbon fiber is worth at least 15 horsepower plus the 3 already in the specs sheet. So you're looking at some real gains there
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      05-31-2019, 11:09 PM   #13
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FYI, the BMW PI uses a K&N filter in place of the paper filter, but it still leaves the charcoal filter in place. Simply changing from a paper filter to the K&N will yield you about the same results as BMW quotes. Naturally the effect will probably be compounded with more modifications so you may get more benefit with the 3-stage intake and a tune. Either way, the intake doesn’t do much for performance unlike some other cars that see noticeable benefits from an aftermarket intake.

Full disclosure-I installed a BMW PI on my car.
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      06-07-2019, 06:21 AM   #14
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The BMW PI is indeed beautiful. I'd bag one used if I could find one, just to give me an excuse to open the hood more often!
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      06-09-2019, 10:27 AM   #15
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I'm glad you posted this. I though this part of the PI was just an identical piece in CF. Clearly this is not the case!!
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      06-10-2019, 08:29 AM   #16
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I miss a good hearty induction noise so for kicks this weekend I removed the top of the airbox from my PI. While it definitely was louder, it was not a pleasant sound. I really want to hear what one of the Turner intakes sound like, but my guess is that the N52 just doesn't sound that good no matter what you do.
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      06-19-2019, 01:55 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderguts View Post
I miss a good hearty induction noise so for kicks this weekend I removed the top of the airbox from my PI. While it definitely was louder, it was not a pleasant sound. I really want to hear what one of the Turner intakes sound like, but my guess is that the N52 just doesn't sound that good no matter what you do.
Where there is a well-funded will, there is a way...
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      06-19-2019, 03:04 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderguts View Post
I miss a good hearty induction noise so for kicks this weekend I removed the top of the airbox from my PI. While it definitely was louder, it was not a pleasant sound. I really want to hear what one of the Turner intakes sound like, but my guess is that the N52 just doesn't sound that good no matter what you do.
I think it sounds great from about 5.5k^.
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      07-10-2019, 09:06 PM   #19
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I'm also interested about what that additional snorkel does on the performance intake. The one facing towards the driver side cabin.
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      07-10-2019, 10:52 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Suhb View Post
I'm also interested about what that additional snorkel does on the performance intake. The one facing towards the driver side cabin.
It aims noise at the driver.
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      07-10-2019, 11:46 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suprgnat View Post
It aims noise at the driver.
Not much though. Don't get me wrong, the PI does sound a little better than stock, but not enough to justify itself.
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      07-11-2019, 09:06 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderguts View Post
Not much though. Don't get me wrong, the PI does sound a little better than stock, but not enough to justify itself.
No worries, I was just answering the question.
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