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      03-15-2017, 03:34 AM   #1
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Schmiedmann M3 Control Arms DIY Video

Got this in my mailbox this morning via Schmiedmann's newsletter. Thought some would enjoy the DIY video, especially since it's on the E82.

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      03-15-2017, 09:51 AM   #2
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This is good but maybe not perfectly clear on the torqueing of the fasteners. Here is something I posted on the E90 forum on a related discussion:

Quote:
Remember to:
Make sure thread bores, bolts, nuts and mating surfaces are clean.
Install bushing end of control arm to subframe using new fasteners.
Do not tighten nut at this time.

Install control arm ball joint to steering knuckle using new selflocking nut. Tighten fully.

Install ride height sensor link rod to control arm (if applicable).

Install wheel and lower car.

Tighten bushing end of control arm to subframe with car on ground and loaded. Bounce suspension a few times before final tightening.
Endquote

The quote above is for the control arm but the tension strut instructions are essentially the same.


Another point worth noting is check what grade of nuts and bolts you have. I had grade 10 nuts for the subframe nuts and bolts so torqued accordingly (from Bentley). Then I thought I'd take a second look at everything and had an 'aw shit' moment when I saw the bolts were grade 8. So I had overtorqued them. This worried me enough that I parked the car and ordered new nuts and bolts and changed them out. At $50+ screw up!!
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      07-19-2019, 08:41 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gjm120 View Post
Another point worth noting is check what grade of nuts and bolts you have. I had grade 10 nuts for the subframe nuts and bolts so torqued accordingly (from Bentley). Then I thought I'd take a second look at everything and had an 'aw shit' moment when I saw the bolts were grade 8. So I had overtorqued them. This worried me enough that I parked the car and ordered new nuts and bolts and changed them out. At $50+ screw up!!
Just did my upgrade to M3 control arms and now you have inserted doubt...lol.

I responded in a torque thread and would appreciate your perspective.

https://www.1addicts.com/forums/show...4&postcount=16

I don't want to do it again if I don't have to!
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      07-19-2019, 11:53 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyW View Post
Just did my upgrade to M3 control arms and now you have inserted doubt...lol.

I responded in a torque thread and would appreciate your perspective.

https://www.1addicts.com/forums/show...4&postcount=16

I don't want to do it again if I don't have to!

I believe my bolts were grade 10.9 but the nuts were 8.8. I went under a weakest link theory and changed them and torqued at the 8.8 spec. I found some general fastener grade & torque discussion that led me to that decision.

I'm sure some will say that was overly cautious. Maybe even incorrect as the bolts are torque to yield and the idea it to get some amount of stretch?? I just felt that I had torqued bolts beyond the recommendation and that they would have been compromised.

Are the bolts and nuts you used grade 10.9 or grade 8.8? If they are 10.9 you don't have a problem. If the bolt and/or nut are 8.8 you've got the same decision I had. In that case my obvious advice (obvious b/c that is what I did) is get new fasteners and torque to grade 8.8 spec.

BTW, the BMW TIS site has the same torque specs depending on fastener
grade.

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...mounts/5bUExgU
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      07-20-2019, 12:13 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gjm120 View Post
I believe my bolts were grade 10.9 but the nuts were 8.8. I went under a weakest link theory and changed them and torqued at the 8.8 spec. I found some general fastener grade & torque discussion that led me to that decision.

I'm sure some will say that was overly cautious. Maybe even incorrect as the bolts are torque to yield and the idea it to get some amount of stretch?? I just felt that I had torqued bolts beyond the recommendation and that they would have been compromised.

Are the bolts and nuts you used grade 10.9 or grade 8.8? If they are 10.9 you don't have a problem. If the bolt and/or nut are 8.8 you've got the same decision I had. In that case my obvious advice (obvious b/c that is what I did) is get new fasteners and torque to grade 8.8 spec.

BTW, the BMW TIS site has the same torque specs depending on fastener
grade.

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...mounts/5bUExgU
Thx. The bolts are definitely 8.8. I didn't go all the way back under and look at the nuts once i saw the bolt was 8.8. Kinda irritated that the Bentley Manual is wrong...the bolts in RealOEM clearly indicate they are 8.8.
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      07-20-2019, 07:25 AM   #6
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The torque spec is more based on what you are fastening over what bolt is used. You can have the exact same bolt/nut in three different places in the suspension, and they can have three different torque specs.
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      07-20-2019, 08:49 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech View Post
The torque spec is more based on what you are fastening over what bolt is used. You can have the exact same bolt/nut in three different places in the suspension, and they can have three different torque specs.
Yes but since Bentley and TIS give the 2 bolt grades with different torque instructions, I didn't want to use the higher grade spec. Also, anything I dug up showed a 8.8 grade bolt max torque ~100 Nm (depends on pitch and friction coefficient). Just wasn't comfortable to torque it to 100 Nm + 90 deg.
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      07-20-2019, 12:39 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gjm120 View Post
Yes but since Bentley and TIS give the 2 bolt grades with different torque instructions,
And herein lies the rub with my situation...I have both Bentley 3 series manuals. I got the first one when I got my 2008 335. When I got my 135, I purchased the newer one as it ostensibly had more N55 stuff in it. So I pulled out that one for this job.

However, What I discovered today is that the older manual states both 8.8 and 10.9 specs in the torque section but the newer one only lists one spec, the 10.9 spec, in the equivalent section without specifying it is 10.9. If I had just pulled out my *old* Bentley manual, I would have gotten it right! A little frustrated with Bentley right now. Glad I stumbled across your comment...wish I had stumbled across it two days earlier...
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      07-20-2019, 01:10 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyW View Post
And herein lies the rub with my situation...I have both Bentley 3 series manuals. I got the first one when I got my 2008 335. When I got my 135, I purchased the newer one as it ostensibly had more N55 stuff in it. So I pulled out that one for this job.

However, What I discovered today is that the older manual states both 8.8 and 10.9 specs in the torque section but the newer one only lists one spec, the 10.9 spec, in the equivalent section without specifying it is 10.9. If I had just pulled out my *old* Bentley manual, I would have gotten it right! A little frustrated with Bentley right now. Glad I stumbled across your comment...wish I had stumbled across it two days earlier...
The newer manual lists the torque spec of 100 Nm + 90 Deg but doesn't show any grade of bolt? If yes, maybe you are ok in light of Mighty Mouse Tech's statement?

However, I'd still be uneasy b/c of what I said about finding ~100 Nm as the max torque spec for m12 grade 8.8. Maybe someone with an engineering background will chime in here.
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      07-20-2019, 02:05 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gjm120 View Post
The newer manual lists the torque spec of 100 Nm + 90 Deg but doesn't show any grade of bolt?
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gjm120 View Post
Maybe someone with an engineering background will chime in here.
That would be helpful...where's fe1rx ?
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      07-20-2019, 03:47 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyW View Post
Yes.



That would be helpful...where's fe1rx ?
That would be great if he chimed in.

If you haven't already done so, search 'tightening torque for metric fasteners' and you will find nothing greater than 100 Nm recommended for a grade 8.8 M12 bolt. Based on this and the gut feel that the extra 90 deg is a lot, I went down my cautious path.

Good news it isn't that much work to replace the nuts & bolts. Please post whatever you decide.
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      07-20-2019, 05:09 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gjm120 View Post
That would be great if he chimed in.

If you haven't already done so, search 'tightening torque for metric fasteners' and you will find nothing greater than 100 Nm recommended for a grade 8.8 M12 bolt. Based on this and the gut feel that the extra 90 deg is a lot, I went down my cautious path.

Good news it isn't that much work to replace the nuts & bolts. Please post whatever you decide.
The 90 degrees is about an additional 25-27Nm...my torque wrench is electronic and recorded the peak and I looked because I was curious.

The cost is really in time and frustration. Now I have to wait until next weekend to complete the job while waiting for parts. Glad this isn't my DD. All of this is 1st world problems, I know!

To be clear, I decided to replace and retorque to the 8.8 spec.
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      07-20-2019, 05:30 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyW View Post
The 90 degrees is about an additional 25-27Nm...my torque wrench is electronic and recorded the peak and I looked because I was curious.

The cost is really in time and frustration. Now I have to wait until next weekend to complete the job while waiting for parts. Glad this isn't my DD. All of this is 1st world problems, I know!

To be clear, I decided to replace and retorque to the 8.8 spec.
I'm surprised it is only that much.

None the less, I think you're doing the right thing
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