Warranty Almost Voided

crzy4135i · 03-29-2009, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scorcherjf

Is Dinan really that foolproof though? I've seen people post where BMW refuses to repair because of a Dinan mod, and Dinan also refuses claiming it's not their problem!

Yea, but that person came back and posted that he was taken care of. If I have an issue I'll keep driving the loaner until they get it sorted out.

MadMan77 · 03-29-2009, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evolved

They can't just out right void your warranty simply because they see mods on your car. And for the situation involving a lease and voided warranty, they'd probably CPO the car anyway, it's more money in their pocket.

Attached is the CPO checklist. Note the big STOP! sign in Section 1 where it says:

"Vehicles NOT qualified for enrollment or sale as CPO:"
• Inconsistent or incomplete maintenance history
• Non-BMW performance modifications
• Disqualifying CARFAX report

That might be contrary to what you say. Of course there might be a shady dealer out there that will overlook that to CPO but BMW of NA might have something to say about that.

Monaco35Dream · 03-29-2009, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadMan77

I hear you there.

I am going to go off a tangent here for a second. So when doing a scan with BT what section will these codes appear in? Am I correct to assume it will appear in the engine section? Also, is there a way to scan for codes other than using the "Short test all units" button. The user manual is not very specific from what I see.

You can "short test" all modules, which checks the whole shebang, or you can test individual modules, i.e. engine, stability control etc. The "Engine" module has "Fault codes" and "Shadow fault codes" and both need to be checked...

MadMan77 · 03-29-2009, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monaco35Dream

You can "short test" all modules, which checks the whole shebang, or you can test individual modules, i.e. engine, stability control etc. The "Engine" module has "Fault codes" and "Shadow fault codes" and both need to be checked...

Thanks. That is what I thought. No codes here.

Evolved · 03-29-2009, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadMan77

Attached is the CPO checklist. Note the big STOP! sign in Section 1 where it says:

"Vehicles NOT qualified for enrollment or sale as CPO:"
• Inconsistent or incomplete maintenance history
• Non-BMW performance modifications
• Disqualifying CARFAX report

That might be contrary to what you say. Of course there might be a shady dealer out there that will overlook that to CPO but BMW of NA might have something to say about that.

Dealer removes the parts, problem solved, on to CPO. And that's assuming the previous owner left any parts on the car to begin with.

MadMan77 · 03-29-2009, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evolved

Dealer removes the parts, problem solved, on to CPO. And that's assuming the previous owner left any parts on the car to begin with.

Thanks for the obvious fix. According to their own checklist, that would not be in stride with the CPO program. Please refer to my prior post about "shady dealers". BMW of NA would not put that on the checklist if they just wanted the dealers to remove the parts just to circumvent it.

Evolved · 03-29-2009, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadMan77

Thanks for the obvious fix. According to their own checklist, that would not be in stride with the CPO program. Please refer to my prior post about "shady dealers". BMW of NA would not put that on the checklist if they just wanted the dealers to remove the parts just to circumvent it.

BMW of NA would never know, that's my point.

Also why would anyone turn in a leased vehicle with mods on it? Why not sell the mods and make some money back?

MadMan77 · 03-29-2009, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evolved

BMW of NA would never know, that's my point.

Also why would anyone turn in a leased vehicle with mods on it? Why not sell the mods and make some money back?

You have got it all wrong. We are talking about the ECU storing codes which could possibly void the warranty, but will most assuredly cause the car to not to CPOd. If the dealer follows the CPO worksheet (once again see my comment about "shady dealers" in a prior post), which they are instructed to do so directly by BMW of NA, then the car would automatically fail the inspection and not be eligible for CPO status.

Seriously, this is very cut and dry. I even supplied the worksheet for your viewing pleasure.

Cliff Notes: If the dealer follows the rules set forth by BMW on NA, you have codes for powertrain mods in the ECU and the dealer finds them during the CPO inspection, then you will NOT be CPOd.

Evolved · 03-29-2009, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadMan77

You have got it all wrong. We are talking about the ECU storing codes which could possibly void the warranty, but will most assuredly cause the car to not to CPOd. If the dealer follows the CPO worksheet (once again see my comment about "shady dealers" in a prior post), which they are instructed to do so directly by BMW of NA, then the car would automatically fail the inspection and not be eligible for CPO status.

Seriously, this is very cut and dry. I even supplied the worksheet for your viewing pleasure.

Cliff Notes: If the dealer follows the rules set forth by BMW on NA, you have codes for powertrain mods in the ECU and the dealer finds them during the CPO inspection, then you will NOT be CPOd.

Well I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

In a perfect world you'd be correct but everything is big business now a days.

freshwhite335 · 03-30-2009, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by new2the3

JB2 is definitly not an invisible tune! You should definitly invest in a BT scanner so you can clear those codes yourself before you go in for service next time.

+1

jeremyc74 · 03-31-2009, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadMan77

You have got it all wrong. We are talking about the ECU storing codes which could possibly void the warranty, but will most assuredly cause the car to not to CPOd. If the dealer follows the CPO worksheet (once again see my comment about "shady dealers" in a prior post), which they are instructed to do so directly by BMW of NA, then the car would automatically fail the inspection and not be eligible for CPO status.

Seriously, this is very cut and dry. I even supplied the worksheet for your viewing pleasure.

Cliff Notes: If the dealer follows the rules set forth by BMW on NA, you have codes for powertrain mods in the ECU and the dealer finds them during the CPO inspection, then you will NOT be CPOd.

I'd be willing to bet that if I traded my car in on an M3 right now, it'd be back on the lot in a week as a CPO, in spite of the fact that they've denied warranty coverage because of a tune.

If I wasn't on the verge of being laid off from work, I'd go down and try it to see

Mad Dragon · 03-31-2009, 08:54 AM

As long as the car is returned to stock and passes the inspection, it will be CPO'ed.

imported_mega · 04-01-2009, 06:06 AM

I thought if those codes were there it was completely out of the tech's control, the computer picks it up and bmw has it

Mark M · 04-01-2009, 07:09 AM

Not if the dealer has a BT scanner too. Then he can scan the car....diagnose....repair.....then hookup to the BMW computer to get a clean bill of health.

imported_mega · 04-01-2009, 07:10 AM

you dont honestly think they will do that do you?

cagekicker · 04-01-2009, 07:45 AM

i'm not taking any chances, period.

imported_mega · 04-01-2009, 07:48 AM

besides, someone correct me if I'm wrong

if you have an engine fail, warranty pays the tech the warranty rate (low)

non warranty replacement pays full rate (quite a bit more)

so the tech's have an incentive for the warranty claims to be denied, almost all auto companies pay lower rates to the techs for warranty work, it's a catch 22 for techs, get more schooling, get shafted into more warranty work

I'm not sure if bmw does this too, but it would be the only one that I know of

pit1 · 04-01-2009, 09:27 AM

I respect the tuning crowd, and how infectious a hobby it can become. However, I'll stick with the "not worth it" crowd, at least for the duration of the warranty. From BMW's perspective, it's to their advantage to develop and enforce detection measures. Regardless of BT scanner and code deletion, they'll find another way.

Best of luck and be careful, don't be surprised if you get caught. OP...lucky man, that SA deserves a nice bottle of wine.

BForbes · 04-01-2009, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pit1

From BMW's perspective, it's to their advantage to develop and enforce detection measures. Regardless of BT scanner and code deletion, they'll find another way.

I echo the same feeling. They have hundreds of millions in R&D at their disposal. I'm sure they can figure out a way if they havent already. Some dealerships are very relaxed with it. Be careful folks!

1N54E92 · 04-01-2009, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by new2the3

JB2 is definitly not an invisible tune! You should definitly invest in a BT scanner so you can clear those codes yourself before you go in for service next time.

davemohan · 04-01-2009, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BForbes

I echo the same feeling. They have hundreds of millions in R&D at their disposal. I'm sure they can figure out a way if they havent already. Some dealerships are very relaxed with it. Be careful folks!

All it will take is Write Once memory for "critical codes", if it comes to that, or hasn't already. (Like a DVD-R) At that point, no erasing/clearing. All you can do is open the "tamper proof" box and replace the chip, which will be VIN coded anyway, and possibly have redundancy and/or check digiting. Cheap and easy; no more fraud. I'd be amazed if this isn't at least on the drawing board.

imdanomite · 04-01-2009, 12:05 PM

the DME will throw a code stating that the coding of the DME is invalid. it can also throw different CAN bus faults that also communicate with the DME (DSC, EGS, etc. etc.) whether you have DINAN, JB, whatever...it won't necessarily tell us techs that the vehicle has a performance tune, it'll just state that the coding doesn't match OE.

03-31-2009, 08:54 AM	#34
Mad Dragon . 27 Rep 932 Posts Drives: 2010 GTI Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: MD iTrader: (0)	As long as the car is returned to stock and passes the inspection, it will be CPO'ed.
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04-01-2009, 06:06 AM	#35
imported_mega Colonel 122 Rep 2,199 Posts Drives: various bmw's Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: neverland iTrader: (0)	I thought if those codes were there it was completely out of the tech's control, the computer picks it up and bmw has it __________________ You only need two tools in life - WD-40 and Duct Tape. If it doesn't move and should, use the WD-40. If it shouldn't move and does, use the duct tape. Driving e82, e72, e85, R53 Gone but not forgotten.. 1974 2002, many various 3s.
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04-01-2009, 07:09 AM	#36
Mark M Major 240 Rep 1,288 Posts Drives: E30M3 E83X3 E90335D Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Lancaster, PA iTrader: (0)	Not if the dealer has a BT scanner too. Then he can scan the car....diagnose....repair.....then hookup to the BMW computer to get a clean bill of health.
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04-01-2009, 07:10 AM	#37
imported_mega Colonel 122 Rep 2,199 Posts Drives: various bmw's Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: neverland iTrader: (0)	you dont honestly think they will do that do you? __________________ You only need two tools in life - WD-40 and Duct Tape. If it doesn't move and should, use the WD-40. If it shouldn't move and does, use the duct tape. Driving e82, e72, e85, R53 Gone but not forgotten.. 1974 2002, many various 3s.
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04-01-2009, 07:45 AM	#38
cagekicker Major 16 Rep 1,335 Posts Drives: '09 crimson red 135i Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: miami (vice city) fl. iTrader: (0)	i'm not taking any chances, period. __________________ 6MT/ Sport Package/ N54/ Asa wheels/ Eibach pro kit springs/ Active autowerke Exhaust/ 35% tint
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04-01-2009, 07:48 AM	#39
imported_mega Colonel 122 Rep 2,199 Posts Drives: various bmw's Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: neverland iTrader: (0)	besides, someone correct me if I'm wrong if you have an engine fail, warranty pays the tech the warranty rate (low) non warranty replacement pays full rate (quite a bit more) so the tech's have an incentive for the warranty claims to be denied, almost all auto companies pay lower rates to the techs for warranty work, it's a catch 22 for techs, get more schooling, get shafted into more warranty work I'm not sure if bmw does this too, but it would be the only one that I know of __________________ You only need two tools in life - WD-40 and Duct Tape. If it doesn't move and should, use the WD-40. If it shouldn't move and does, use the duct tape. Driving e82, e72, e85, R53 Gone but not forgotten.. 1974 2002, many various 3s.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-01-2009, 09:27 AM	#40
pit1 Captain 239 Rep 790 Posts Drives: F87 M2 Join Date: May 2008 Location: It's always Sunny... iTrader: (1)	I respect the tuning crowd, and how infectious a hobby it can become. However, I'll stick with the "not worth it" crowd, at least for the duration of the warranty. From BMW's perspective, it's to their advantage to develop and enforce detection measures. Regardless of BT scanner and code deletion, they'll find another way. Best of luck and be careful, don't be surprised if you get caught. OP...lucky man, that SA deserves a nice bottle of wine.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-01-2009, 12:05 PM	#44
imdanomite likes boobies ( o )( o ) 13 Rep 275 Posts Drives: 2009 BMW 135i Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: MD iTrader: (0)	the DME will throw a code stating that the coding of the DME is invalid. it can also throw different CAN bus faults that also communicate with the DME (DSC, EGS, etc. etc.) whether you have DINAN, JB, whatever...it won't necessarily tell us techs that the vehicle has a performance tune, it'll just state that the coding doesn't match OE.
	Appreciate 0 Quote